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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: nanny jan on Thursday 11 January 18 15:55 GMT (UK)
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Fingers crossed this is successful:
http://www.government-online.net/tender-for-1921-census-records-digitisation-and-licensing/
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Where are those dancing smilies ;D ;D
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Great news!
Perhaps we should tender ;D
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Great news!
Perhaps we should tender ;D
£20million. Can I tender twice? LOL
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Fingers crossed this is successful:
http://www.government-online.net/tender-for-1921-census-records-digitisation-and-licensing/
Oh it will happen there was never any doubt about that, its just you will not get to see the results before 1 January 2022
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Great news ! Thanks for posting.
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Good news. Still have to wait until January 2022. Only 4 years to go.
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Great news!
Perhaps we should tender ;D
My thoughts exactly! ;D
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Good news. Still have to wait until January 2022. Only 4 years to go.
The way the years are flying by shouldn't be to long provided I am still here ;D
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I did think there was some silly act which meant the 1921 census was never to be released, it would not be released in 2022, or even 20222222. From what I heard there has been appeals against this. Whether this act has been overturned I am not sure.
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It should be very useful as as well as the usual questions it also asked:
age - this was now required as years and completed months, rather than just years as in previous censuses
if under age 15, whether parents are living, "both alive", "father dead", "mother dead" or "both dead"
birthplace, county and town or parish (or country plus state, province or district for persons born abroad)
if born abroad, nationality
trade
employer
place of work
number and ages of living children or stepchildren under 16
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Hi all,
This is very good news, as I had been wondering if it would ever be released! ;D
It should be very useful as as well as the usual questions it also asked:
age - this was now required as years and completed months, rather than just years as in previous censuses
if under age 15, whether parents are living, "both alive", "father dead", "mother dead" or "both dead"
birthplace, county and town or parish (or country plus state, province or district for persons born abroad)
if born abroad, nationality
trade
employer
place of work
number and ages of living children or stepchildren under 16
I hadn't realised what different information would be on the 1921 census, it should as you say Jan be very useful indeed! The next four years can't go quick enough! ;D Although, I suppose I shouldn't wish me life away!! ;D ;D
Kind regards
David
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Well we now have 4 years to save our pennies, as it probably wont be free or cheap, but it can't come soon enough :)
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Not so useful for me - my lot had been long gone from the UK by 1921. Possibly of use for OH's family though within living memory so probably won't reveal much we don't already know.
Shame - it would be nice to know the answers to those questions if you didn't already know them. :)
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It shall be worth the wait in the end.
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Whilst the successful applicant is required to demonstrate "Experience of managing and completing large-scale digitisation projects of heritage material" there appears to be no requirement to ensure that the informations is transcribed accurately.
I assume that the "Three principles of a contract" will apply insofar as 1) you can have it on time, 2) you can have it on budget and 3) it works; but you can't have all three together!
My scepticism will be proven or otherwise "a posteriori".
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My money is on it going to one of the well known subscription sites.
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👍 Snap...That's what I was just thinking Jan!
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My money is on it going to one of the well known subscription sites.
And my money is on FindMyPast, they got the 1939 register, and the1911 census first. That's if FindMyPast want it at a huge cost. If they do get it no doubt they'll charge extra for it, not include it in a subscription, same as they did in the beginning with 1939 register. Whoever gets it will want to recoup the cost of transcribing digitising and other costs.
Pleased I don't need it to further my research, however I'll be using it, if only to be nosey ;D.
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The first name I will be looking for is Margaret Manuel born about 1871, (St. Mary's US of America). 1911 Census, England. America is a big place for a place name St. Mary's. Her married name Rounsley. Lived and died in County Durham after returning from USA.
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Like Libby, I don’t actually need the 1921 census as the 1939 register solved all my questions. However it will be interesting if it contains actual places of employment.
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Lots of my rellies died inbetween 1921 and 1939 so I shall certainly look forward to the 1921 census. First entry I shall look at will be my London born great grandmother in Co Durham.
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My great-grandmother had a child in about 1908, several years after her husband died. On the birth certificate, she named her long-dead husband as the father. The child in question died in 1926, cause of death, tuberculosis. I have no idea who the real father might have been except for a previously unknown surname given to the baby as a middle name. 1911 was of no help whatsoever but I live in hope of clues from 1921. Great granny died in 1939, before the register was taken.
There are several other little niggly points about my mum's family which need to be cleared up so I live in eternal hope of some level of resolution!
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I believe, someone will no doubt correct me if I am wrong, but this will not apply to the Scottish 1921 Census.
It is held in the National Archives of Scotland and the Scottish Government will decide on its release date. That will probably mean that it will only be available at Scotlands People the same as the 1911 Scottish Census and not go out to the highest bidder.
It cannot come quickly enough for me but I had better not hold my breath at my age ;)
Dorrie
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I too am eagerly awaiting the 1921 release. While the 1939 has been great, there are gaps in my tree on families who ‘grew’ between 1911 and 1939 😀
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Not too worried about the 1921 - grandparents on one side have already been followed on the Canadian 1920s census, and the other set of grandparents are thoroughly known. Not really prepared to pay more in subs, as, year by year there seems to be less for me to find on those sites, sadly. I think I ought to put my money into a crystal ball, might find those elusive and mislaid ones more easily that way!
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Not too worried about the 1921 - grandparents on one side have already been followed on the Canadian 1920s census, and the other set of grandparents are thoroughly known. Not really prepared to pay more in subs, as, year by year there seems to be less for me to find on those sites, sadly. I think I ought to put my money into a crystal ball, might find those elusive and mislaid ones more easily that way!
If you find a reliable crystal ball, do share the details - I am sorely in need of one .......!!!
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Not too worried about the 1921 - grandparents on one side have already been followed on the Canadian 1920s census, and the other set of grandparents are thoroughly known. Not really prepared to pay more in subs, as, year by year there seems to be less for me to find on those sites, sadly. I think I ought to put my money into a crystal ball, might find those elusive and mislaid ones more easily that way!
If you find a reliable crystal ball, do share the details - I am sorely in need of one .......!!!
I'm hoping the DNA kit I've just ordered will prove to be at least in part a crystal ball - at least knock down a few brickwalls. No guarantee - I know.
As for the 1921 census - yes, its always nice to have additional information to search but I do wonder if we might be getting a bit carried away with this. As earlier posts say, the 1939 Register has helped considerably and there can't be that much that the 1921 census can add. The closer in time, the fewer households to look for. Not that it will stop me from looking, of course! ;)
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Almost all of my great-grandparents were born between 1911-1921 so it will be great to see them living with their parents, my great-great grandparents, and get some more insight into their childhood.
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I'm looking forward to 1921 to find out where some of my ancestors whose births I haven't been able to find,were actually born.Of course that's not shown on the 1939.
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I'm looking forward to it coming. The main question for me is can I get all my branches up to date and compile a list of what I would like to know from the 1921 in four years! Don't know about you but I've got sidetracked over the years with 'exciting' offshoots ' and so some of my research isn't as well presented as others.
I'm currently on distraction therapy from getting things up to date as I'm helping a friend with their main branches and it's SO much more fun finding out things than typing stuff up - don't you find that - or is it just me .......
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I'm currently on distraction therapy from getting things up to date as I'm helping a friend with their main branches and it's SO much more fun finding out things than typing stuff up - don't you find that - or is it just me .......
Definitely, especially when their trees are more interesting than mine! Changes of names, bigamy, desertion, transportation etc - none of that in my family, more's the pity. :'(
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I'm currently on distraction therapy from getting things up to date as I'm helping a friend with their main branches and it's SO much more fun finding out things than typing stuff up - don't you find that - or is it just me .......
Definitely, especially when their trees are more interesting than mine! Changes of names, bigamy, desertion, transportation etc - none of that in my family, more's the pity. :'(
I am also guilty of distraction from my trees, that is why I am always on here ;D
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Hi
I'm currently on distraction therapy from getting things up to date as I'm helping a friend with their main branches and it's SO much more fun finding out things than typing stuff up - don't you find that - or is it just me .......
Definitely, especially when their trees are more interesting than mine! Changes of names, bigamy, desertion, transportation etc - none of that in my family, more's the pity. :'(
I am also guilty of distraction from my trees, that is why I am always on here ;D
Candleflame, definitely not just you, I'm exactly the same, much more fun researching than typing it up as you say! ;D
Jan, none of those in my tree either, rather than changing their names (although come to think of it there was one instance of that in my tree! ;D) its more that they have switched their christian & middle names around (numerous instances of this!!) ::) Caused me plenty of bother! ;D
I think I must be guilty of distraction from my trees too, as well as doing my tree I'm helping at least five other's with their tree's! ;D Keeps me busy I suppose! ;D
Kind regards
David
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I believe, someone will no doubt correct me if I am wrong, but this will not apply to the Scottish 1921 Census.
It is held in the National Archives of Scotland and the Scottish Government will decide on its release date. That will probably mean that it will only be available at Scotlands People the same as the 1911 Scottish Census and not go out to the highest bidder.
It cannot come quickly enough for me but I had better not hold my breath at my age ;)
Dorrie
I'm waiting for the Scottish one too Dorrie! My Dad, 2 of his sisters and their parents came to NZ in 1924, and when finally I located them on a Passenger list, their last address before departure from was given as 12 Raploch Stirling. ??? ??? ??? I've not been able to find out why they were there, as this family had lived in Glasgow, and I'd never heard of any other family living in Sterling. I'm thinking that perhaps my Grandmother may have had relatives there, and maybe they were visiting them before they left! That's my theory anyway - so roll on the 1921! 👍👍.
But possibility I might find them, still in Glasgow - where I know they had lived when my Dad was born in 1912. But they could well have moved to Stirling!
What we all need is a hot line to Heaven!! 🙏🙏
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I know where all my grandparents were living in 1921but it is my great uncles that I need to find so this will help fill in some blanks. At the moment some of them are not easy to find on the 1939register so it will help,fill in a few gaps.
Regards panda
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I just really want to see my Mum for the first time on the Census. I've got Dad as a toddler in 1911; that choked me up, I'll be the same with Mum. I'll check out my grandparents, and the great uncles and aunts; I know it's silly, but it's like bringing them all back to life again for those moments. It's a bit scary to think this Census is only 21 years before my birth - I never thought it would be catching me up when I first delved into the 1851!
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I must admit I find myself doing friends and other people's tree research for them, then spending AGES writing it all out for them, as a clear A2 or even A1 diagram, backed up with pages of notes ... in fact, I'm "actually" doing that for a distant almost rellie at present(too complicated to explain) - and not browsing round here after doing my daily penance at that Quiz!
TY
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I hadn't realised that the 1921 will give ages in months and years! (Thanks to the person who put that on here).
I'm hoping that it will give me some pointer to pinning down a Birth for my Paternal Grandfather... (He died in 1937, and so not around for the 1939 Register).
Mind you, - I was expecting so much from the 1911, - and it wasn't any help with him at all sadly:-(
Is there any way at all that it might be released before 2021??
Romilly.
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I hadn't realised that the 1921 will give ages in months and years! (Thanks to the person who put that on here).
I'm hoping that it will give me some pointer to pinning down a Birth for my Paternal Grandfather... (He died in 1937, and so not around for the 1939 Register).
Mind you, - I was expecting so much from the 1911, - and it wasn't any help with him at all sadly:-(
Is there any way at all that it might be released before 2021??
Romilly.
It will not be released until 2022 ;)
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Thanks Rosie, - I guess I'll just have to hang on until then! (Unless Guy manages to pull it off again:-)
Romilly.
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I won't hold my breath.
He must already have spent a lot of time & effort getting access to records for us all that he has already done. :)
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If they are asking for companies to start digitising it now,then it's going to take quite a while to do the work. I cannot see it being ready much before 2nd Jan 2022 anyway ;D
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Only 4 years away, time will soon fly. And it is a myth that from 1801-1971 that our ancestors/rellies were promised that the census records would remain shut for 100 years. Guy said this promise only started in about 1981. 1851 was released in 1912. 1911 in 2008 after 97 years.
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I do remember reading on here, ( a while back) an explanation from Guy as to why the 1921 wouldn't be released early.
I can't find the Post though...
Romilly.
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The ruling by the Information Commissioner that resulted in the 1911 Census for England and Wales being opened early does not apply to the 1921 Census because, unlike the 1911 Census, the 1921 Census was conducted under the 1920 Census Act, which is still in force and which contains a statutory prohibition on disclosure.
The stated government position from the ONS is "its intention to release the entirety of the 1921 Census returns in 2022, in accordance with the non-statutory '100 year rule' which was adopted to reflect this undertaking of confidentiality".
Despite numerous protestations and challenges, the Government seems to be firmly sticking to the 100 year rule. One reason could of course be that if a census does go ahead in 2021 then there would have to be strong promises of confidentiality and that would not sit easily alongside the government suddenly releasing the 1921 census early when the promise was made at the time that the information on individuals would never be made public.
Also found this set of comments .....
It had been originally planned that the census for England, Wales and Scotland (and the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man as well) would be taken on the night of 24th April 1921 but was postponed by almost two months in the wake of the Black Friday strike by coal miners, railwaymen and transport workers. There was concern that the new date could mean that results would be affected by holiday-making but the date chosen did avoid the "big industrial holidays of the North" although it did clash with the Macclesfield industrial holiday. It turned out that the census did show very striking increases in population for certain seaside towns, for example a 64% increase in Blackpool and a 50% increase in Southend-on-Sea, although both towns had been growing and Southend-on-Sea had showed the highest growth between 1901 and 1911.
This holiday-making affect does mean that when genealogists finally get to see the details of their families in the 1921 Census, they may not be where they expected them to be and families may also be fragmented.
The 1921 Census showed Great Britain had a population of 42,767,530 in 1921, an increase of 4.7% over 1911, with 20,430,623 males and 22,336,907 females.
and this note about new questions ....
New questions asked over the 1911 Census included whether a marriage has been dissolved by divorce - it was felt that as divorces had greatly increased in the years up to 1921, it was important to know exactly how many there were. In the event, 16682 people were said to be divorced on the returns, however there was considerable doubt post-census on the reliability of these numbers.
Another new question was where each person worked, in particular to obtain information about the travelling involved in getting to work.
For Wales and Monmouthshire, there was an extra question for each person (over three years) on whether they spoke English and Welsh, English only or Welsh only and for Scotland there were extra questions about whether each person (over three years) spoke Gaelic only and also whether they were entitled to benefits under the National Insurance (Health) Acts.
The so called "fertility" question introduced in 1911 about the number of years of the marriage and the number of children was dropped, the reason given was that the results from the previous census had not yet been tabulated. Also the question about blindness, deafness or dumbness were removed on the grounds that the parents had objected to giving this information about their children with the result that answers given in the previous census were unreliable.
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Many thanks Lostris, for all the info.
Romilly.
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While I can happily wait for the 1921 census, sadly we Kiwis don't get any access to past census' At All! Although it's a very comprehensive questionnaire, after the Govt. has used it for their National topographical stats etc, the census documents are apparently destroyed (if that's truely the case, as we're led to believe) ???
Thank goodness we can get electoral rolls, at least that's something! I'm fortunate in that my two families didn't come to NZ until the mid 1920's , and I have plenty of census info from UK and elsewhere, but I feel for those whose families came earlier.
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I certainly will be pleased to be still her for the 1921 census, I have one particular person who has completely disappeared from 1911, I am hoping he will show up, poor man disappeared after his wife and 2 of his children died prior to 1911, also his son, on 1911 then never sighted again till 1945 in Yorkshire, I have no idea what he did in between, so roll on 1921
Louisa Maud
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There are a few people I am looking for in the 1921 register. Seeing my dad's name on a census for the first time. Also I will be intrigued to see how my mum's relationship is recorded. She was born in 1918 and fostered a year later. Never legally adopted and her birth mother stayed in contact.
We did not have the same 1939 Register here in Scotland but a National Identity Register instead. This has to date not been made public but you can order an extract for a specific person who has since died at a cost of £15 plus postage. Details shown will be name, address, marital status, age and occupation. If the person died outwith Scotland you must send prof of death.
Dorrie
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Anyone have any idea whether the 1921 census gives dates of birth instead of ages as the 1939 register did?
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It should be very useful as as well as the usual questions it also asked:
age - this was now required as years and completed months, rather than just years as in previous censuses
if under age 15, whether parents are living, "both alive", "father dead", "mother dead" or "both dead"
birthplace, county and town or parish (or country plus state, province or district for persons born abroad)
if born abroad, nationality
trade
employer
place of work
number and ages of living children or stepchildren under 16
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It should be very useful as as well as the usual questions it also asked:
age - this was now required as years and completed months, rather than just years as in previous censuses
if under age 15, whether parents are living, "both alive", "father dead", "mother dead" or "both dead"
birthplace, county and town or parish (or country plus state, province or district for persons born abroad)
if born abroad, nationality
trade
employer
place of work
number and ages of living children or stepchildren under 16
Thanks Rosie. It seems odd that they chose to ask that, instead of asking the birthdate, people seem more likely to get the former wrong than the latter.
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This is just a personal impression, but I don't think people were asked for or used full date of birth in day-to-day life, until the Welfare State got into its stride after 1945.
The number of people I have come across in 1939 register who were out by one year suggests that people readily knew their birth day and month and how old they were in years, but not the birth year. A few couldn't do the maths correctly from "1939".
1921 seems to have fitted the common usages?
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This is just a personal impression, but I don't think people were asked for or used full date of birth in day-to-day life, until the Welfare State got into its stride after 1945.
The number of people I have come across in 1939 register who were out by one year suggests that people readily knew their birth day and month and how old they were in years, but not the birth year. A few couldn't do the maths correctly from "1939".
1921 seems to have fitted the common usages?
Hi Steve. Yes that may be the case, but it seems a bit hopeful that people could do accurate maths of working out how many extra months they were as well as how old they were in years.
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Have quickly looked through the preceding messages but couldn't see anywhere the actual date of the 1921 census. Saw the note about it being a couple of months later than usual due to some industrial action but does anybody know the actual date it was taken.
No need to respond to this as Mr. Google has done so and come up with 19 June 1921. Just thought I'd leave the post in case anyone else wanted the exact date.
Pheno
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Looking forward to seeing what it contains :)
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My first look up would be my grandfather he managed to avoid the 1891,1901 & 1911 census, he died in 1927.
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Have quickly looked through the preceding messages but couldn't see anywhere the actual date of the 1921 census. Saw the note about it being a couple of months later than usual due to some industrial action but does anybody know the actual date it was taken.
No need to respond to this as Mr. Google has done so and come up with 19 June 1921. Just thought I'd leave the post in case anyone else wanted the exact date.
Pheno
Excellent news! That means my Dad will be on there - born 8 June - and I'll know whether his parents were still living with his grandparents :D
Carol
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I will solve a few family tree dead ends when the 1921 census is released.
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Full list of all UK Census dates HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_censuses) (Wikipedia)
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Hopefully I will be able to find further details about my grandmother. I am not any further advanced than what I was 8 years ago so just a little bit of extra detail might provide something that leads onto finding out exactly when and where she was born.
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And so now we know that it was taken on the 19th June 1921...
And that age should have been given in years and months...
And so (fingers crossed) it might give me some assistance in pinning down a DOB for my elusive Grandfather William James Wilson (1860 - 1937).
Only 3 or so years to go now!!
Romilly.
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I do hope so Romilly ;D
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Thanks Carol :)
I'm not holding my breath though... because I thought the 1911 would get me further with him... and it didn't :-(
The absolute icing on the cake... (after all this time) would be if a relative of his was visiting on Census night, 19th June 1921... and gave me a route back to his origins!!
Well... I can dream, can't I?
Romilly ;)