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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Chris773 on Friday 12 January 18 14:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Friday 12 January 18 14:06 GMT (UK)
I am looking for information on my grandfather John J Traynor. John was born in County Cavan, Ireland around 1862 but spent some time in Liverpool, England, before joining the Royal Marines in 1881. On the 1891 English census he is shown as living in Widnes, England and married to Sarah with three children, Peter John b.1886, William b.1888 and Ann b.1890. The family then disappear completely until John turns up again in the UK in 1906.

We understand that John deserted from the Marines in Australia and spent the next seven years living in the bush from the late 1890's to early 1900's, before being captured and sent back to England in chains. We have no idea what happened to John's family and it has been suggested that they may have accompanied him to Australia and their descendants could still be living there.

I would be very grateful for any information on John and his family. Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: MaureeninNY on Friday 12 January 18 14:36 GMT (UK)
Strange,but going by the children-he turns up in 1901 (Widnes) as Peter TRAYNOR with the same wife and family.

The marriage 1884 has him as Peter TRAYNOR marrying Sarah KAY.

Maureen
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 January 18 14:38 GMT (UK)
Childrens births in Prescot RD show mmn Kay

Marriage has John as 'Peter'
Dec qtr 1884   
Kay    Sarah       
Traynor  Peter       
Prescot    8b   1049

Beat me to it Maureen  ;D
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: MaureeninNY on Friday 12 January 18 14:42 GMT (UK)
 ;D ;D Rosie!


So is this Peter:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-52LR

Which of the children are you descended from?

Maureen
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 January 18 15:03 GMT (UK)
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWTY-SGX
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: MaureeninNY on Friday 12 January 18 15:13 GMT (UK)
Reading through previous posts I think we're looking for this chap who doesn't seem to be the fellow from 1891:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLD-ZFV

Maureen
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 January 18 15:18 GMT (UK)
Thank you Maureen, that would make sense   ;D

Son Bernard
TRAYNOR, BERNARD  JOHN     mmn NICHOLSON     
1909  Dec Quarter
CARDIFF RD  Volume 11A  Page 437
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 January 18 15:20 GMT (UK)
Late marriage  :-\
June qtr 1915   
Nicholson    Johanna   
Traynor    John   
Fulham    1a   867   
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 January 18 15:35 GMT (UK)
The marriage details would be useful to confirm his fathers name.   

There is a John in Liverpool in 1871 with a father Bernard (mother Bridget)  ::)
RG10 / 3789 f23 p40

Deaths Dec 1874   
TRAYNOR    Bernard    age 38   
Liverpool    8b   240

Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Friday 12 January 18 16:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all your help. Seems he has changed his name and carried on living in Widnes! I will contact some family members and see if I can get some more info again  :)
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 January 18 17:01 GMT (UK)
Is it the one that married Johanna Nicholson that you are researching  :-\   
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLD-ZFV


We don't think that the Widnes one is the same person as he can be found in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWTY-SGX
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Friday 12 January 18 18:56 GMT (UK)
I think you are right. John Traynor and Peter Trainer are not the same person. Thank you all for your help  :)
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 11:18 GMT (UK)
Don't give up  ;D

Is it the one that married Johanna Nicholson that you are researching  :-\   
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLD-ZFV


also do you have his royal marine records
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Saturday 13 January 18 11:39 GMT (UK)
Yes. He married Johanna Nicholson (my maternal grandmother) in 1906, and again in 1916. We don't know why this is. We know that he had three children with Sarah in Widnes, but had understood he went off to Australia for seven years before coming back to the UK in the early 1900's. If he was Peter Trainor after all, he would not have gone to Australia, as Peter Trainor's wife (also called Sarah) was having a baby every couple of years!
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 12:01 GMT (UK)
Where did the 1906 marriage take place  :-\
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Saturday 13 January 18 13:51 GMT (UK)
I had assumed in London, but there is no record of it. The 1911 census shows them living in Hammersmith, London and Johanna's status as married. Although proof of marriage would not have been required, Johanna was a strong-minded and very religious woman, and I can't imagine her bringing up a family out of wedlock
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 14:02 GMT (UK)
Do you have a copy of the 1915 marriage.
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Saturday 13 January 18 14:22 GMT (UK)
Yes, please see the attachment

copyright image removed

Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 14:28 GMT (UK)
That is the GRO index.  You really need the marriage certificate to progress backwards. 


Just filling in gaps for those looking  :)

Is this him  :-\
ADM 159/66/3673
Description:   
Name   Traynor, John
Register Number:   3673
Division:   Royal Marine Light Infantry: Plymouth Division
When Enlisted/Date of Enlistment:   08 June 1880
Date of Birth:   08 June 1861
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7777964

1881 at Plymouth Barracks age 19 bn Cavan
RG11/ 2205 f89 p17
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Saturday 13 January 18 14:32 GMT (UK)
Yes, that's him at the barracks in Stonehouse, Plymouth
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 14:37 GMT (UK)
How do you know that is your John without knowing who his father is from a marriage entry.  :-\ 

I realise a lot may be family hearsay but that can often be inaccurate and it is always safer to try & track back from what you know. 

What proof do you have that your John was married to Sarah Kay.

Do you have his RM records
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Saturday 13 January 18 14:42 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your advice about family hearsay. I will scour through our albums and records and have another crack at him when I have more solid information.
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 15:28 GMT (UK)
Just posting this in case it is yours (only because Johns children are Bernard & Bridget  ::)    )
1871 - London Road, Liverpool
Bernard   Traynor   34   occ Tailor
Bridget   32   occ Tailoress
John   9   
Margaret   7   
Thomas   2   
Thomas bn England rest born Ireland
RG10 / 3789 f23 p40

poss death
Deaths Dec 1874
TRAYNOR    Bernard    age 38    Liverpool    8b   240

Do come back to us if you get any further with this
Title: Re: Traynor
Post by: Chris773 on Saturday 13 January 18 15:34 GMT (UK)
Thanks