RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: dorothyl on Sunday 14 January 18 01:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone.
I hope it will be ok to ask this. But I'm in need of some advice. As everyone probably knows I've been asking for help on different family members of mine. Mostly my grandad. And his mum. Not forgetting my gran.
I am really happy with everyone's help. I wouldn't have got this far without your help.
I now need some advice please. If it is ok.
Next week I be going to apply for my grandads death certificate. Which I will receive in the post.
Then my next certificate I am going to apply for his my great grans birth certificate. A few weeks later.
Here is where I need advice. I have found out my great gran Frances Jones. Passed away in 1967 age 77. But she was living in hattersly Hyde. So I would have to get her death certificate from tameside register office.
So what I was thinking is. When I apply for my great grans birth certificate. Should I put down her birthday being 12th March. Then 1890? Because if she was 77 when she passed away in 1967. I came up with the year 1890 when she was born. And would I put Manchester.? Also if it's not asking to much. Should I need to put her parents names down. The names I was kindly given by some members.
I just want to make sure. So when I go to apply for my grandads death certificate. I could ask the registra office person if they look it up for me. I did this for a certificate once before. They put a number at the top right corner of the document I had to fill in. Which was my grandads birth certificate.
Anyway thank you again for your help and time. I really do appreciate everyone's help.
Thank you again
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Hi Dorothy
Do you not have the GRO references for these deaths? If you do you can order the certs by using the references given.
Example below
Deaths Sep 1960
WHITE Thomas 68 Blackpool 10b 486
This shows that the death was registered in the September quarter 1960, Registration District is Blackpool, Volume No. is 10b and Page No. is 486
Certs cost £9.25 from the GRO website. Local registry offices tend to charge about £10 for certs. Even if you order from abroad I think the charge is the same.
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You could always write to the GRO first before ordering to check the cost.
Online
Before you order a certificate
If you would like to ask us a question, or want to know more about one of our services before you order a certificate you can email us directly at certificate.services@gro.gsi.gov.uk
If you do not wish to receive an autotext response please include GQ in the subject field of your email. We will respond to your email within 5 working days.
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Frances Jones - June quarter 1891 - Warrington Registration District - Volume 8C, page 222
And we know, from the baptism record at St Elphin in Warrington, that Frances was born 11 March 1891.
The address in 1891 for William and Ellen was 12 Brick Street, Warrington.
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If you order death certificates for events before 1969, actual dates of birth are not recorded. Information on certificates is informant driven, even today, and information recorded may be sightly incorrect but not deliberately supplied as such.
If you order an historic birth or death certificate from the General Register Office at Southport, use the reference number from the many sites such as freebmd, FindMyPast, Ancestry or familysearch. If you do not use the reference number but give a date of birth or date of death which may be incorrect you might not get the certificate as the staff there may consider this to be a mis-match.
Again, if you order a birth cert from the GRO without a reference you will be asked to supply a place of birth which you may not know.
The same applies if you try to order a certificate locally.
Ordering a death direct from Warrington will cost £10 plus postage either £3 1st class or £1.50 2nd class, you will also have to answer questions you may not have the answers to
https://registrars.warrington.gov.uk/rafts/CopyCertificates/Process/Certificate/CertificateOrderForm.aspx
such as the actual pace of death
Most people here choose to use the General Register Office with reference numbers for certificates.
Hope this helps.
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I just checked Tameside register office, it seems you annot order direct from them, you have to follow a link
https://www.tameside.gov.uk/copycertificates
Again you may not hve all the information they need, they do not receognise the GRO reference number system.
Certs cost £10 plus £2 postage.
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Hi
I have been using the Gro.gov site & ordered a couple of death certificates online it is cheaper & you get an electric copy in a few days.
John
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Frances Jones died in Ashton under Lyne Hospital in 1967.
Have you checked the 1939 Register to see her date of birth?
What was her maiden name?
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Hi.
My great gran Frances Jones. Was her birth name. So Jones was her maiden name as she never married. Before or after the birth of your son Alfred evan Jones.
Thank you.
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As I mentioned on your other thread (to which you didn't respond) you seem to be making things over complicated for yourself by ordering from the local register offices. It's far simpler ordering direct from the GRO and all you need to quote is the details from the relevant index.
Annette
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As I mentioned on your other thread (to which you didn't respond) you seem to be making things over complicated for yourself by ordering from the local register offices. It's far simpler ordering direct from the GRO and all you need to quote is the details from the relevant index.
Annette
Not only that, it is far cheaper! Even if you order a paper certificate it is only £9.25 post free compared to £10 plus postage from a register office.
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As I mentioned on your other thread (to which you didn't respond) you seem to be making things over complicated for yourself by ordering from the local register offices. It's far simpler ordering direct from the GRO and all you need to quote is the details from the relevant index.
Annette
I agree with Annette that you are over- complicating things and you are also ignoring relevant information that has been given to you already on your various threads.
Away back in November we ascertained that a William Hopwood Jones is buried in the same grave as your grandfather Alfred Evan Jones. Alfred is the illegitimate son of Frances Jones. All the evidence from census, 1939 register, baptism record etc points to Frances being the daughter of William Hopwood Jones and Ellen Jones nee Tomlinson born 1891. You have been given the exact reference to purchase her birth certificate -
Frances Jones jun quarter 1891 Warrington reg district volume 8c page 222
Isobel
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PDF copies are only £6.00 from GRO for both birth and death certificates. :)
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But note that the dates for births stop at 1917 and for deaths the last year given is 1957. So I'm afraid Dorothy will have to pay the full £9.25 for a certificate as Frances died in 1967.
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Agree GG but she was also referring to wanting a birth cert from the 1890s which comes under the £6.00 PDF. The choice is there on GRO.
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Hi everyone.
Thank you for your help. I'm sorry I've not been answering. I've been going through all everyone's help. Just so I can understand it all properly. ( Make it sink in my memory )
I would like to thank you all for the help everyone as given me. Without your help I wouldn't have known what I do now. I didn't even know who my great grans parents names are. Which I was wondering. When I went to the library in Manchester I was trying to find out about my great gran Frances Jones. Then I got stuck because I didn't know where she was born or the year of her birth. Both my mum and I thought my grandad was born in 1910. But since everyone's help he was born 1914. I have checked with the cemetery where my grandad is buried. And apparently he passed away at the age of 31. He would have been 32 the month after if he had lived. So when I applied for my grandparents marriage certificate. I noticed that my grandad was 19 when he married my gran. And my gran was 24 .
In 1933. As they got married in December 1933.
When I went backwords taking there ages off the year they was born.
My grandad was born 1914. But my gran was born 1909 which is odd because my mum always said she was born 1911. Unless mum was told different for some reason.
I have seen my great grans fathers name in the same grave as my grandad. Which I really didn't know about until I was told by the cemetery person. Who told me the date of when my grandad was buried. And the date he passed away.
So everything everyone has told me on this group have been spot on with things I knew. Even the things I forgot about. I would like to say that I will be getting my grandads death certificate. Very soon. And then my great grans death certificate. Which hopefully next then her birth certificate.
Then my next task is trying to find out where my gran was actually born and her proper year. But as yet I can't find her as we really don't know if she was adopted or not and the year's of her birth are 2 different year's. Unless she was born 1909 and somone adopted her 1911. I only know what my mum told me. But there again my gran wouldn't talk to my mum about things not even about herself. So we just know she was born 26th of February. 1911 I think it's possible she was born 1909.if she was 24 when she married my grandad Alfred evan Jones in 1933.
Anyway thank you so much for your help. I can't do this without any help.
It's amazing how you can find things in a matter of a short time. It takes me ages to find 1 thing.then I'm not sure if I had the wright ones. That's when I was doing my dad's side of the family.
Thank you all again
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Hi everyone.
I'm not sure who the kind person was who gave me the details of how to get certificates.
But can someone please tell me. When I eventually apply for my great grans birth certificate. What quater would it come under? As she was born in march on the 12th. And would they know if she's the wright person I'm buying the certificate of. I have seen the details someone put on for me. I just can't seem to find it.
I was originally going to put 12th of march 1890. But now I'm not sure if it's 1891 and still the 12th of march.
A lady put my great grans baptism details on for me I think and shows her date as 29th of march 1891.
I know I keep asking the same thing. But I have a slight memorie problem. I can't seem to hold a memorie long unless I wright thing's down. Even when I'm reading something I have to read the same line more than 3/4 times.
I don't know if that is normal or just that I have too much on my mind.
I would like to share something with this group. And that is. Before I put my help on here I didn't know where to start or where to go for help. As the only person who could help me had passed away. And she was my dear mum.
She helped me in everything I wanted to know. If she knew it she would tell me. If she wasn't sure she said oh I'm not sure. Even to a photo I had and wasn't sure if I was in the photo as it was a school photo.taken with other classes. I shown her this photo and said mum can you see anyone in this photo you reconise. I was looking for my school friends.
She said yes really excited. Saying yes I do I asked who it was. She pointed out the person and said there's you. I asked where she shown me. After asking her are you sure. She replied. Well if I don't know my own daughter now I would never know. Then she explained about the problem I have with my parting. Which I still have today. It's called a cow's lip.
So when I became stuck with my quest and had no help. A voice came in my head. Saying trying your group. (As I've not been on it for a while ) so I thought I will see if anyone can help me.
And I am really pleased I did. You have all helped me things I never knew and no doubt my mum didn't either.
I'd like to think my mum is watching me doing this as it's for her as I made her a promise. I would find out for her.
But she passed away before I could finish it. I know she's not here. But a promise is a promise. I owe her that for her help. And it would help me with my family background and my family tree.
There is one thing my mum said but apparently there's no trace of him as I've found out he was born in England.
Which was my grandad. My mum thought my grandad was born in wales and she mentioned Rhos on sea.
I don't know how it's connected. But I've found out my grandad was born in England. As the Welsh register office said there's nothing on their records. But told me there is on England records. So now it's been confirmed that my grandad was born in England.
I just can't remember what Rhos on sea has to do with either my grandad or his mum.
Anyway thank you all again I really do appreciate all your help and advice.
Thank you
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Dorothy the best place to get the birth certificate is from the GRO website
This is the birth registration that Bumble B found
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
JONES, FRANCES TOMLINSON
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 222 Order
Tomlinson is the maiden name of Frances mother.
You can order from the search page:-
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
If you are not already registered on the GRO website you will need to do this before you can order the certificate.
You don't need to do anything other than press either the certificate button or the pdf button, the website will automatically fill in the details for you. You then carry on through the ordering process.
If you get stuck do ask for help, that's what we are here for.
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This was also posted here
From the information given here this is Frances birth certificate which you can order from the GRO
JONES, FRANCES mothers maiden name TOMLINSON
1891 June Quarter
WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 222
A June qtr registration would fit with a March birth
You can order this registration from the GRO as a PDF for £6.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
It will cost you £10 from Tameside or £9.25 as a certificate from the GRO.
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Dorothy
If you prefer you can order certficates by downloading an application form, filling in the details and sending it by post to the GRO.
Link below so that you can download the form
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-register-office-gro-certificate-application-forms
Look for the Birth Certificate one.
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Thank you.
I didn't like to ask too many things.
Im getting my grandads death certificate this week. From the register office. As Im in Manchester anyway.
But I will ask for help. Thank you
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That's fine Dorothy. Do let us know how you get on with getting your certificates and of course ask if you would like any more help searching for information. :) :)
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Re. A possible link to Rhos on Sea. There is a good match for Frances in 1911 ( right age and place of birth), boarding with a family in Llandrillo yn Rhos, Colwyn Bay.
Isobel
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Before you order the death certificate for Frances Jones, are you certain that she died in 1967 aged 77?
There is a death for another Frances Jones in 1971 at Ashton under Lyne Hospital aged 80.
Apologies if this has already been discussed.
Heather
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Hi Heather: that's a different Frances Jones, who was registered December quarter 1891 in Ashton under Lyne. But thanks for the input - not easy when Frances Jones is a fairly common name :-\