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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: pwlit on Monday 15 January 18 20:43 GMT (UK)
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Hello, I'm hoping someone can help me (again) as I am losing the will to live trying to track down myself!
I want to order the Birth and Death Certificates of my great grandfather, Charles James Hardy. I have his marriage certificate to Susan Lawrence in 1891 (in Croydon) and from this his birth year is 1866. I believe Susan Hardy died in 1943 aged 75.
All my searches have failed so far - can anyone help please?
Thank you
Peter Lawrence (if you are wondering why my surname isn't Hardy, it's because my grandfather was born illegitimately and married with his mothers surname, Lawrence).
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Greetings.
My initial thought is thatis the marriage cert gives the name and occupation of Charles' father, this would help track him on a census to establish where Charles was born. This would narrow down the search for a birth registration.
All the best
Philip
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A free index search of the 1939 Register suggests he may have gone by "James" at that stage. The censuses show that he claimed a Pimlico birthplace.
You may want to bear this death registration in mind: James Hardy aged 86, Sep qtr 1952 Croydon.
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In 1901, he is 35 so born about 1866. He gives his birth place as London. In 1891, he gives his birth place as Pimlico, London
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The marriage certificate gives his father as James Hardy (deceased) and profession of father as Carpenter. Charles was born in Pimlico, London. It didn't help me.
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I wonder whether in fact he grew up in the Pimlico/Westminster area, thinking (mistakenly) that he had been born there.
In 1871 we see this family among many at 6 Carteret St, St Margaret Westminster:
James Hardy Head Mar 41 Carpenter unemployed Southwark
Jane E do Wife Mar 41 no occupation Knightsbridge
Mary E do Daur 7 Scholar Westminster
James do Son 5 Scholar Lower Sydenham
RG10/127/55/9
Likely birth registrations for the children:
Mary Emma Hardy, mmn Sutcliffe, Sep qtr 1863 Westminster
James Hardy, mmn Sutcliffe, Jun qtr 1866 Lewisham
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Marriage: James Hardy to Jane Elizabeth Sutcliffe, Mar qtr 1859 Lambeth.
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By 1881 James snr has died - possibly James Hardy aged 50, Mar qtr 1879 Croydon.
33 Hawthorn Grove, Penge (Croydon registration district)
Jane E Hardy Head Wid 52 Charwoman Knightsbridge
Mary E do Daur 17 Westminster
James do Son 15 Fishmonger's boy Kent Sydenham
RG11/824/111/47
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Then Jane and Mary seem to die at about the same time (at least the deaths are registered close enough in time to be on the same page of 10 deaths):
Jane Elizabeth Hardy aged 58
Mary Emma Hardy aged 23
both Mar qtr 1887 Croydon 2a 132.
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By 1881 James snr has died - possibly James Hardy aged 50, Mar qtr 1879 Croydon.
33 Hawthorn Grove, Penge (Croydon registration district)
Jane E Hardy Head Wid 52 Charwoman Knightsbridge
Mary E do Daur 17 Westminster
James do Son 15 Fishmonger's boy Kent Sydenham
RG11/824/111/47
There is a probate record for James Hardy late of 100 Crampton Road, Penge, Carpenter, died 13 Jan 1879. Administration granted to Jane Elizabeth Hardy of 33 Hawthorn Grove, Penge, widow. Personal Estate under £200. Granted 28 Jan 1881.
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This appears to be the correct James Hardy who died 13 Jan 1879 (according to probate record). I have his marriage certificate now (9 Mar 1859 to Jane Elizabeth Sutcliffe) which gives his father as John Hardy (Farrier). But I cannot find his birth certificate nor the birth certificate of his father John (who I think was born in 1806). Can you help please?
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James was 41 in 1871 so b abt 1830. Therefore there will not be a birth registration for him or any earlier generations as the civil registration system was only introduced in England on 1 July 1837.
You will be reliant on finding a baptism if anything
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Baptism, Christ Church, Southwark
21 Feb 1830
James Hardy, son of John (farrier) & Mary, of Prices St.
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Other children, same parents (all baptised at Christ Church, Southwark):
Henry Hardy baptised 03 Sep 1820
Hannah Hardy baptised 04 Jul 1824
Joseph Hardy baptised 20 Aug 1826
Jane Hardy baptised 14 Oct 1832
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1841 Census shows John Hardy was not born in Surrey but his wife and children were.
1851 John and Mary together with dau. Hannah are now living at Park House, Charlwood, Reigate, Surrey - his occupation is given as Retired Blacksmith and his birthplace as Broadwinsor (should be Broadwindsor), Dorset. Wife Mary's birthplace given as Charlwood, Surrey
Not quite as old as he stated - he was baptised 3/6/1787 (not 1789 as on Ancestry) Broadwindsor, Dorset, son of James and Ann.
There are 3 trees on Ancestry that have no marriage traced for John and Mary but I believe this is them:
John Hardy and Mary Blanchard married 14th Sept.1810 Newington St. Mary, Surrey.
A Mary Blanchard bp.21/8/1785 Charlwood, Surrey dau. of Thomas and Mary.
Earlier children born to them before those posted by avm228 are:
John bp.11/8/11 Southwark (became a farrier like his father)
Mary bp.9/4/1813 ditto
Thomas bp.24/12/1815 ditto
Daniel bp.5/4/1818 ditto
Annette
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Thank you so much for these replies. The 1841 census has John & Mary Hardy living at Holland Street, Southwark with family members Hannah (16), Jospeph (14) and Jane (8); but no sign of son James who would only have been 11 (avm228 baptised 21 Feb 1830)?
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Also, am I only able to see the '3 trees on Ancestry that have no marriage traced for John and Mary' on Ancestry (I am subscribed to FindMyPast.co.uk)
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James Hardy could be the 10 year old at a school in the village of Lidlington, Bedfordshire - a lot of children there most of whom were not born in the county, all of them simply shown as 'Scholar'.
The trees on Ancestry are submitted by members of Ancestry so can only be viewed on Ancestry.
Think John's parents are James Hardy and Ann Lester who married 7/1/1773 Fordington, Dorset (there was a marriage at West Lulworth, Dorset in 1770 but don't think these are John's parents because this couple were baptising children in West Lulworth when the other James and Ann are baptising children in Broadwinsor. Siblings of John (bp.3/6/1787) are Salley bp.12/6/1775, Sophia bp.31/5/1779 (must have died), Sophia bp.22/5/1780, Elizabeth bp.12/6/1781.
Annette
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Hello Annette, I have now subscribed to Ancestry.co.uk but need your help and expertise this far back. I am wondering if I might be related to the poet, Thomas Hardy?!
My great great grandfather was James Hardy (b.1830 m.1859 d.1879) and his siblings were John (b.1811), Mary (b.1813), Thomas (b.1815), Daniel (b.1818), Henry (b.1820), Hannah (b.1824), Joseph (b.1826) & Jane (b.1832). Could it be that poet Thomas Hardy's father (b.1816) was sibling Thomas (b.1815)? Both born in Dorset.
Or am I on the wrong track completely?!
Regards
Peter Lawrence (Hardy)
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Afraid you are on the wrong track - the father of Thomas, the poet, was Thomas Hardy shown on census bc.1811/12 Stinsford, Dorset - baptised 31/1/1812, son of a Thomas Hardy(1777-1833) and Mary Head married 1799.
If there was ever a connection between your 2 families it's way back in the mists of times I'm afraid.
Annette
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Yes I figured I might be! Complicated stuff these family trees. Thanks for clarifying.
Peter