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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: goldie61 on Monday 15 January 18 21:59 GMT (UK)
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I have a ‘quarterings’ of the Fynney family from Staffordshire. It tells the story of the ancestry of that family, and the families they married into. (This has to be the most illustrious family in my ancestry!)
aka Finey, Fines, Fienes, Fineaux etc
The actual ancestry of the Fynney family is documented on many sites.
I have been able to put names to the majority of them, but there are a few that have me stumped.
The most puzzling one is number 8. The single black bend on a silver ground.
This is supposed to be for the Monceaux family of Herstmonceaux, but anything that comes up for them are much more elaborate affairs.
(Sir John de Fienes married Maud Monceaux about 1325. Her father was Sir John Monceaux, and her mother Olympia (nobody seems to know her name). The Monceaux family hailed from Moncheaux, near Neufchatel in Normandy)
Another one is number 5. (This is the first one in the ‘ancestry’ - the top 4 supposedly being for the Fynney families.)
The quarters 1 & 4 on number 5 are the arms of the Counts of Boulogne (3 red torteaux on a gold ground), but I can’t track down the red flag in quarters 2 & 3. any ideas?
(Ingelram de Fiennes married Sibyl de Tingree about 1170. Her father was Pharamus de Tingree, Count of Boulogne. He was nephew to Maude, Queen of England, wife of King Stephen. Her father also related to Godfrey de Boulogne, ‘King of Jerusalem’).
I have another question about numbers 1- 4, but will leave that for another day.
Any help gratefully received.
Thank you.
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I think your problem here is that some of the quarterings are/maybe European and not English?
These will be trickier to track down, as each country had it's own system.
Prior to the 16th century, there was no regulation on the use of arms in England.
And that leads to it's own problems ;D
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Hi There,
While I may not have any information on the meaning of the coat of arms I do have another image that is the crest that appears in the family book brought with my great grandfather when he came to South Africa.
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Wow, thanks sharon.
That would seem to be the same as the first one on the 'quarterings'.
How exciting to find Fynneys in South Africa!
What book is it in? Is it just about the Fynney family, or a more generalised book?
I've never seen that image no matter how many times I've googled Fynney.
How do you, and your great grandfather, fit into the Fynney family?
I'm presuming you do, as your name here on Rootschat is Sharon Fynney!
And how and when did he go to South Africa? whose son was he?
Sorry for so many questions, but how exciting to find another image of the Fynney crest, and some more relations! :)
Im not sure how much you know about the Fynney family, but I have LOADS of information about them.
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Hi Goldie,
I am a Fynney (Sadly the last I know of in SA that comes from the direct line). My direct family is descended from Dr Fielding Best Fynney who came to SA to farm sugar on the Natal coastline. Fielding had 8 children the oldest being Fredrick Bernard Fynney my Great Great Grandfather, Fredrick Bernard had 6 children the oldest being Oswald Henry Joseph Fynney my Great grandfather. Oswald had 2 children with Edith Blamey a girl Eileen who passed away in a fire and my grandfather Fredrick Eric Warren Fynney. Fredrick married my gran Barbara Kate Collet and had a single son my father who is still living. My father had 5 children all girls of which I am the last to be unmarried and retain the Fynney name.
The book we have is ancient!! it is a record of the Fynney family as far as I remember, it is not something we leaf through regularly because of age and the language being in the old English style making it somewhat hard to understand. This came across with our family and included the sale deed to the lands we left.
I hope you have found this interesting:)
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One possibility for your number 8 : "Argent a bend sable". These were the older arms of Hough of Leighton, in Cheshire - see "http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk/visitations/CV15.html".
The wikitree site "https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/FYNNEY" contains references to the Houghs of Leighton, who appear to be related. You may want to investigate this :)
Maec
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Hi Sharon
Thanks for replying.
Dr Fielding Best Fynney is well documented. There is a big wall monument - The Fynney Brass - to him in Cheddleton church. Sadly now very discoloured you can't even see it's brass never mind what it says. Have you seen a picture of it (while it was still readable)?
Is your book written by him? He was an ardent genealogist and did a lot of work on his family pedigree, some of which you can find in various depositories in England.
This came across with our family and included the sale deed to the lands we left.
Could I ask what place the deeds were for? I'm guessing somewhere in Staffordshire.
Would it be possible to take a photograph of the book you have? Just of the front cover would be great. I should love to see it.
It is so fascinating when these treasures suddenly become unearthed!
Hope to hear back from you. How very exciting! :D
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Hi Maec
Thanks for the links.
Certainly something to look into, although I have never come across any reference in all the documentation I've seen about the Fynneys that there was ever an connection with any Cheshire families. Not to say there wasn't though - you never know.
The second link to 'Fynney' on wikitree takes me to a long list of Fynney families - some I can see are mine, others not. There is no reference to the Houghs on that page - do you know which Fynney it referred to?
Many thanks for you interest and help.
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Hi Goldie,
I have not seen the brass at all as far as I can remember although we probably do have a picture or rubbing of it somewhere ( I would need to ask my father ). I do know that my grandmother was lucky enough to go and see it in person but that was well before I was born.
I think the book may have been written by him. It has been a number of years since I have requested my dad pull it out for me to look at (we are a bit precious with it). I do know that it contains our history back to Normandy. There are a number of crests and family details that are a bit over my head. I do have photo copies of some of the pages my dad found most interesting so I will dig them up and hopefully be able to share them with you.
The deeds are in my possession so I will be able to have a look at the exact location a bit later but I know it was in Staffordshire and they mention Leek.
If my recollection is correct I may be able to shine a bit of light on the various coats of arms, as there was a section of the book I think I have a copy of that has many coat of arms on it.
I will happily ask my dad to take a photo of the front of the book and send it to me:)
I find this all very interesting as well:)
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Fantastic Sharon!
Thank you so much.
I look forward to hearing from you with baited breath ;)
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Ah, I may have misinterpreted the 'Fynney' wikitree list. I thought the search at the top was within the Fynney list but it must be for the whole wikitree site. Apologies.
However, the arms of Hough of Leighton fit your description and Leighton is only 18 miles from Leek near where the Fynneys were based, so a marriage is possible !
I wonder if the "or three torteau gules" in your no 5 are not Bolougne but are Courtenay (the Earls of Devon family) ? Like you, I am unable to identify the other arms which seems to be "or, a pennon gules"., not a common charge, indeed I can't find an example at present.
As a matter of interest, what is the date of the book you are quoting from ?
Maec
PS whilst writing this, Sharon's post has come through. I'll be interested to see what she has for us :)
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Goldie and Sharon
'Valiant Harvest' by Robert F Osborn, 1964 .... F B Fynney gets a mention in this comprehensive book on the South Africa Sugar Industry.
<i>"Fynney's Sugar Estate, 1863-1871 ... F B Fynney was one of the original Byrne's cotton lands' settlers who stuck to his allotment at Mt Moreland. His estate adjoined Blamey's, and he followed the latter's example by planting cane about the year 1863, and subsequently erected a sugar mill of the same size as Blamey's. In 1870 John Robinson reports that Fynney had some 200 acres under cane. The estate was right on the bank of the Umhloti, and in 1902 passed into the hands of the Umhloti Valley Sugar Mill and Estate Co Ltd after having had nine previous owners."</i>
Book available on Abebooks ... includes further info on Blamey, and map etc to show locations. If you can't get a book, PM me for the full info.
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Hello Sharon86, welcome to RootsChat.
My wife is a Fynney descendent being the 4 x Gt. Granddaughter of Doctor Fielding Best Fynney 1743-1806. We have lots on the Fynney’s I do believe that there is at least one other person (male) with the Fynney name in South Africa which due to the rules I can’t name here but will send you a personal message on this forum about that. As far as we know there is no one in England with the Fynney name as a surname. There are also Fynney descendants in Australia but the name there has also passed out of use. It was one your Gt. Grandfather’s Sisters that took the name there. A long story.
My wife’s Gt. Gt. Grandfather, Frederick Adolphus Fynney was brother to your Fielding Best Fynney who went to South Africa and was at one time in business with him. Like Goldie 61 I am fascinated to see what you have in your research, personal knowledge and book.
The picture that you posted is from original plates that are still in existence but not in my possession. I have a black and white of it.
Also I think I may have a picture of your Oswald.
Boy Scout.
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Thanks so much Boyscout,
We have a number of family photo's and my father (possibly the male you are referring to) is busy writing articles for a South African magazine about the life of his father Fredrick Eric Warren Fynney and his father Oswald who was a magistrate in Natal. I have attached a few photo's for you.
I would love to see what ever you have!
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Hi Goldie,
Here are some of the coats of arms I found in my Grans research files.
I will have to do multiple posts
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Hi Goldie,
Here are some of the coats of arms I found in my Grans research files.
2nd set
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Hi Goldie,
Here are some of the coats of arms I found in my Grans research files.
Final
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Fynney Brass
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Gosh, it seems as if your Gran was really interested in Coats of arms.
Do you think they are all related to your Fynney family somehow?
They don't appear in the families of the Fynneys I've looked at.
How interesting ;)
Love the photo of your granddad with the lion!
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They all relate to the families in Leek and as a result they were all connected to the Fynney's in some way I suppose. These i think all came from the family book which is the history of the families of the parish of Leek.
I am hoping to get bunches of photo's of the older family from my dad.
Did any of the coats match what you were looking for?
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I can't see any from my main Fynney/Finney family (apart from the obvious Fynney one), but I think the Fowler one also comes in on another branch of Finneys - as you say, from Leek.
Apart from that I can't see any that fit in.
If they are all from the Leek book, they could just be Leek families, and not necessarily all connected to the Fynneys.
Are there any more? You seem to have loaded the ones from 'C' though to 'H'.
I have come across the book by John Sleigh before, although I don't own a copy, I have seen the chapter on the Fynneys. I didn't get to look at it long enough to see all these crests were in it! and it was some years ago now, when I hadn't really got round to looking into all the coats of arms. Should've taken more photos!
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post them all.
Cheers :)
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Hi maec
Thanks for your thoughts.
I've seen that the Courtney family also use the 3 red torteau.
If you go back to my first post on this thread, you can see the original quarterings.
1 - 4 are for the Fynney families (although I can't ascribe nos 2 & 3 to anybody in particular),
then number 5 (which is the first one chronologically), is the 3 red torteau and unknown red pennants.
As I said, Ingelram de Fiennes married Sibyl de Tingerie about 1170. Her father was Pharamus de Tingerie/Tingree, Count of Boulogne, so I think we can say that that '3 red torteau' is the Counts of Boulogne, and not the Earls of Devon. The Courtneys may well have descended from the same people, and carried on with the crest. I think I saw somewhere that it's in Prince Phillip's coat of arms too!
It may well be that the red pennants come from the Tingree side, but I've not been able to track them down. As KGarrard said, tricky when they are French, and way before these things were regulated.
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I do have a few more but the quality is very poor and i am not sure they are worth posting.
I will have a look at my dad's next time I am there for anything I have missed.
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Hi Sharon
I am a descendant of the Fynney family of Cheddleton. I am not a descendant of Fielding Best Fynney but he and I share a common ancestor further back in Fynney Lane.
Are you please able to tell me how far back your deeds and documents go to Fynney Lane?
Are you also able to let me have copies and details of other Fynney coats of arms please?
I have only recently discovered my Fynney ancestors and my Cheddleton heritage and am finding it amazing.
Best wishes
Dodi
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Hello Dodi,
Welcome to Roots Chat.
We have much of what you are asking for. My wife is a descendant of Doctor Fielding Best Fynney and we together with others on this forum have been looking at the Fynney and Finney people for several years and will be keen to see where your line fits in.
As for looking back we have details which allegedly take Fynney back to 1066, details complied in the main by Doctor Fynney.
We are happy to share what we have.
The best way of achiving this is by personal messaging (P.M.) on here. As a new member the rules say that you have to make three posts before this contact can be made. You will therefore have to make a couple of extra post before we can P.M. you. These do not have to be detailed posts just a simple message will surfice.
Good Luck with your research.
Boy Scout
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Hello Boy Scout
Thank you for your reply. Will inform you privately of where I fit in.
I have a copy of Sleigh and the genealogy of the Fynney family.
Best wishes
Dodi
Another message in a second to meet the 3 required.
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Hello again Boy Scout
I recently visited Cheddleton Church and have seen FBF's memorial. It is very impressive.
Dodi
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Hello again Boy Scout
I recently visited Cheddleton Church and have seen FBF's memorial. It is very impressive.
Dodi
Gosh Dodi! You must have known exactly where to look!
When I finally got to visit some years ago, nobody there (including the vicar who happened to be there), knew anything about it, had no idea where it was, and had never heard of it. (This was before I'd found out it was in the Sleigh book)
This despite the fact that later I realised it was the monument way up high on the wall at the back of the church. Totally now all black (I think originally it was brass - it looks as if it was in the picture in Sleigh), and unable to see what is written on it.
Did you take a ladder with you? :)