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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: AngieToton on Wednesday 17 January 18 20:47 GMT (UK)
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Hi, does anyone have a copy of the 11th Division War Diary they could email me or can tell me where I could get a copy from ?
My Grandfather served in the 11th Battalion Rifle Brigade which I think was under the 20th Division / 59th Infantry / 11th Battalion Rifle Brigade.
I am hoping to visit Belgium shortly and would like to visit / see where he fought in WW1 - he died before I was born.
I know where he was serving until Dec 1915 but nothing after that.
Thanks
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They're held by TNA:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lcq/
They are downloadable but are in 5 lots.
They are also on Ancestry if you have a sub:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lcr/
Unusually (very) all the men are listed under name, rank, Coy. & no.
Having had a quick look it looks like it's very informative, again unusually (for 1915 anyway) the C.O. gives map references as to where they were. These can be found & co-ords. put into your sat. nav. which will take you to the exact places (probably in the middle of a field but the local farmers are used to that).
As a taster if you go to N.8 on this map you will see his 1st. known location in Aug. 1915:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lcs/
They were still in the same area until around mid Jan. 1916 when they moved to Cassel France where they spent a few weeks training before moving to the Ypres Salient Feb. 1916 & went into the trenches at the famous Essex Farm.
C.25 on this one:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ld3/
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Thanks Jim - that's a great help. I will download the Diary over the weekend and have a perusal
The old & new maps are very interesting.
I hadn't got any information after 1916 so I'm looking forward to mapping out where my Grandfather fought.
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He first went "over the top" at Guillemont Sept. 1916 so look out for that.
The Bde. diary gives a blow by blow account so let me know if you want it.
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The Bde Diary would be a great help to me, if you could possibly send it.
I have found a newspaper cutting saying that " 1917 - 1920 he served in Egypt and Palestine as an assistant adjutant in a demobilisation camp. He assisted in establishing the European Refugee camps in Cairo.
There again, I have no information on the above - how would I find that out ?
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So your man was an Officer. He should be mentioned in the Batt. diary.
Officers were transferred more often than OR's so you need to find out when.
What's his name ?
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Albert Victor Gray - think he was a Lieutenant
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Can't supply the whole diary as it runs to over 900 pages. Most of it not particularly relevant but the interesting parts are the details of the actions he was involved in such as Guillemont. I'm assuming he was involved in that but he must have been put forward for Officer training at some point & may have transferred to another Batt. So you need to find from the diary when that was.
You may also find it in the London Gazette notices.
OK it was Sept. 1917 according to the LG. So was at Guillemont but not as an Officer.
The diary says a Cpl. in D Coy.
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Thxs, I've downloaded the War Diaries from the National Archive and will plough through them.
I'll try looking on the internet at Demobilisation camps in Egypt & Palestine.
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Guillemont Sept. 1916
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01le0/
1) 11/RB account 3/4/Sept.1916
2) Situation of massed Div's waiting for the barrage to lift on Guilemont prior to attack.
3) Situation on the 4th. before being relieved.
You can see on the link that there are no British trenches visible only German(red).
The reason being that the British had fought their way from the outskirts of Albert at the beginning of the Somme offensive & were fighting pretty much in the open & only availing themselves of protection from captured trenches, woods & sunken roads.
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Thanks, I'm slowly ploughing through the War Diary - we've bought a map and are highlighting the places named in the War Diary that the 11th Rifle Brigade were - they all seem to be relatively close together : Guillemont, Corbie, Les Boeufs, Montauban, Ginchy, Fricourt, Carnoy, Maricourt, Morlancourt
The 11th Rifle Brigade put the flag up at Rocquigny at 4am on the 18th March - so that will be a definite place to visit.
Another place mentioned was: captured ground called 'Green Jacket Ridge' ?
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Have a good trip. Don't forget to visit Thiepval which is close by.
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His service record should be worth a read - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1146178
Not available online - requires a visit to Kew.
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I visited Kew a few years ago to look but they hadn't go his service record - apparently a lot were destroyed in WW2.
The mystery is still how he ended up in Egypt & Palestine and what was he doing there
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The service records for other ranks were partially destroyed. Officers records were kept elsewhere & your man's should be available. According to Newburychap's link they are.
Request a copy from their link & see what they come back with this time.
I would suggest that after Officer training he was posted to another Regt./Batt. serving in Palestine.
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Back from our trip to Belgium / France - had a lovely time researching WW1
I've now got his Officer's Service Record and find out he was wounded in September 1916 - how do I find out any records re this, which hospital did he go to, what the injuries where etc and where did he go to recover ?
The record says:
G.S.wd.arm.leg.R hand followed by HA2308
I assume that means wounded in the arm, leg and right hand ?
The record says he was Home 11th Sept 16 to 28th Aug 1917 - The next record is stamped 'No 1 Officer Cadet' which I've looked up and assume that's when he did his Officer's training.
Do I assume that he wasn't fit to go back to the Frontline line that's why he went for Officer training ?
So many questions, sorry ?
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Glad you had good trip. All looks different today doesn't it.
G.S.wd.arm.leg.R hand followed by HA2308
The bit at the end is an office reference number lost in the mists of time.
His wounds were possibly from shrapnel rather than gunshots. The records didn't always reflect the difference.
The route would have been Advanced Dressing Station (ADS), Field Hospital , General Hospital (possibly Rouen) & repatriation to a UK Military hospital. I'll take a look at the diary & see what medical facilities there were & where they were.
He wouldn't have gone for Officer training as a result of his injuries. After convalescence he would have had a medical to establish his fitness to serve. A1 would be fit for frontline service then B1-B4.
B1 men often went into support services such as ASC, RAMC, LC etc.
So he would have been A1.
Which Regt. was he posted to ?
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It says Sgt Albert Victor Gray, Rifle Brigade has been accepted for No 1 Officer Cadet Battalion at Newton Ferrers on the 5/5/17 then appointed to a temporary commission of Second Lieutenent, then hand written 6th Rifle Brigade see London Gazette.
I've tried looking to see if the 6th RB went to Egpyt but can't find anything yet.
Another document says:
Adjutants - Demobilisation Camp Kantara 2nd Lieut A V Gray. the Rifle Brigade embarked for the UK for demobilisation dated 18th may 1920 then in handwriting it says: appt asst adj 13/11/19
Then there's his Protection Certificate with loads of lettering on ?
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6/Batt. was the RB Depot & Training Unit, that's what the LG entry refers to. The 19th. & 20th. were the only Batts. in Egypt.
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OK looking at the 11/RB & 20/Div. RAMC diaries I can now see the route back to the UK.
On this map following the red arrows he went from the front by stretcher to Briqueterie bearer post then on to 61/FA at Bronfay Farm. via the Maricourt-Bray rd. & on to the A.D.S. at Dive Copse via the Bray-Corbie rd.
The 20/Div. R.A.M.C. M.O. states that Dive Copse is too far away to be an A.D.S. & should be regarded as a C.C.S. (casualty clearing station)
On this link Bronfay Farm is in F29 & Dive Copse in J24 ( I believe).
I say that because I know Dive Copse is just below & along the Bray-Corbie rd. & Dive Copse Cemetery is at Sailly-le-Sec.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101465323
From here he would have gone the most convenient route to a base hospital on the coast prior to repatriation to one of the many Military hospital in the UK.
The diary mentions no. 2 S.H. (stationary hospital) this was at Rouen.
Whether he went to that or one of the others is impossible to say.
My guess would be from Corbie thru' Amiens & on to Rouen.
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Forgot to mention.
Page 397 in the 11/RB diary gives the daily account from the 3rd.
P.403 are the Operational Orders.
P.448 lists him as being wounded on the 3rd.
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Thanks, I'd totally missed that he was wounded on 3rd Sept - I'd looked down the lists but they are endless but I've found him now.
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With the maps of him going in & today's maps of him coming out you pretty much know his war.