RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: RuslanPashayev on Saturday 20 January 18 17:17 GMT (UK)
-
Dear Friends,
during Middle Ages cotton industry in Salford and Blackburn Hundreds was growing rapidly. Lancashire mill owners used to send recruiting teams to other counties in the South of England Somerset, Berkshire Devon etc. because there was a shortage of labor locally. And the oppressed laborers from the South moved to Lancashire as to a new world. Bolton, Blackburn, Oldham, Burnley, Ashton, Wigan, and other South East Lancashire towns grew quickly. At first cotton manufacture was a small home-based business. The South East Lancashire area became the powerhouse of industrial activity in England in the period 1780 to 1820 when the Industrial Revolution took hold, with inventions such as the weaving loom changed the textile work from a domestic industry to factory-based one. I would highly appreciate any info on the migration of laborers from the South to Lancashire. My main concern is when (years) immigration reached it's peak and where (locations) in Lancashire the South settlers established their new homes. Any statistics would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Kind regards, R
-
Suggest you do a google search if you want statistics, as that is what most of us would do.
-
Dear Friends,
during Middle Ages cotton industry in Salford and Blackburn Hundreds was growing rapidly. Lancashire mill owners used to send recruiting teams to other counties in the South of England Somerset, Berkshire Devon etc. because there was a shortage of labor locally.
What do you mean by "Middle Ages"? That would be generally understood to be pre 1500. Before cotton mills.
-
looks like in the 1500's it was still home operated business. some say it was Flemish who introduced textile industry in Lancashire, I am not sure about that, and even if there was some influence, it would have happened sooner or later. They had Wool Fairs here and there in the 1500's.and there was not that much cotton. main focus was still on wool - which comes from sheep. Cotton came later when they started getting raw cotton from the colonies. I think late 1600's early 1700's. and then it turned into industry which became emblematic of the region. I am assuming the peak of immigration from the South was during that last phase mid 1700's.
-
Re reply #3. That's why I was confused when you began your original post "during Middle Ages" then next sentence began with "Lancashire mill owners" which is a leap to a different era.
The topic of "Textile Industry in Lancashire from Middle Ages to Nineteenth Century" is a large and complex one. There are plenty of books about it, general and specific, as well as information online. A search of catalogues of Manchester Working-class Library ( now called something else), Harris Library & Museum, Preston, Bolton Library & Museum and others may be of interest. Your enquiry can't be answered in a few words.
England owed its' prosperity to wool. That's why the Woolsack is in Parliament.
Flemish weavers went to Bolton.
Cotton mills attracted people from surrounding areas. Some millowners brought poor and orphaned children from workhouses as apprentices. Women, even married women, worked in Lancashire cotton mills.
There were booms and slumps. A prolonged slump after end of war with France 1815 resulting in unemployment and wage cuts. Mass Irish immigration provided a large pool of workers from mid 19th century. Some of these may have had experience of linen weaving in Ireland.
Lancashire County Council closed/mothballed/curtailed some of its' museums devoted to the cotton industry.
-
QUOTE from OP: "My main concern is when (years) immigration reached it's peak and where (locations) in Lancashire the South settlers established their new homes."
Perhaps one way of gathering statistics would be to make detailed searches of the 1851 census to get area of birth.
Some places have earlier population records, [I know York does,] so I imagine it be worth putting your question to the records office.
-
An anecdotal story about the movement of my ancestors in the cotton trade moving from Kidderminster to Manchester;
Samuel Hogg was born (1758), married, widowed, remarried in Kidderminster and his daughter was christened there in 1790.
I next catch sight of the family in Manchester, when another daughter was christened there in 1797.
I think these dates coincide with the demise/downturn of carpet weaving in Kidderminster at the end of the 18th century and the rise of the cotton industry in Manchester at the same time. The family prospered in Manchester until about 1840, after which there was a huge influx of cheap Irish labour. Three of Samuel's grandsons emigrated as Bounty Immigrants to Australia, one became a joiner and another a solicitor, while the grandson who stayed in the Mcr cotton trade lived in poor housing and died young (aged 38).
-
QUOTE from OP: "My main concern is when (years) immigration reached it's peak and where (locations) in Lancashire the South settlers established their new homes."
Perhaps one way of gathering statistics would be to make detailed searches of the 1851 census to get area of birth.
Some places have earlier population records, [I know York does,] so I imagine it be worth putting your question to the records office.
Information about 1801, 1811, 1821 & 1831 Censi can be found here:
www.1911census.org.uk/1801.htm
www.1911census.org.uk/1811.htm
www.1911census.org.uk/1821.htm
www.1911census.org.uk/1831.htm
1801 Census: Records exist detailing individuals in Edgworth (near Bolton). Areas in Lancashire where records are known to exist detailing households are Bury and Liverpool.
1811 Census: Areas in Lancashire where records are known to exist detailing households are Great Bolton, Whalley and Wigan.
1821 Census of Eccleston, near Chorley is on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website.
1831 Census: This census attempted to obtain detailed information about occupations of men over age of 20. Areas in Lancashire where records are known to exist detailing households are Great Bolton and Whalley.
See also:
Abstract of Population 1821 (for Lancashire, parts) Contains some info about growth of cotton manufacturing in specific places.
www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/1821census
Research Tools no. 2: Census Schedules and Listings 1801-1831: An Introductory Guide by Richard Wall, Matthew Woolard & Betrice Moring, University of Essex, Department of History
pdf of book:
https://www1.essex.ac.uk/history/documents/research/RT2_wall_2012.pdf
See the website A Vision of Britain Through Time. You can look up places. It has information about 1801-1831 census.
www.visionofbritain.org.uk
BTW Blackburn and Burnley are not in Greater Manchester. I know it covers a large area but it hasn't reached that far north and swallowed up those 2 towns, yet.
-
Dear Friends,
thanks so much for sharing all those details, my deepest sincere appreciation.
Kidderminster wow, it Worcestershire. Thats what I thought when they changed "Act of Settlement" which regulated migration to the cotton areas...people from the South flooded the areas. That was already capitalism. Not a small businesses. I read couple of good books, they were available online at google books...
And yes Flemish in Bolton, I think those were Continental Prostestants, Huguenots right, who came to England because of religious persecutions in Spanish Netherlands, its 1500 right??? They were in Halifax, West Riding of Yorkshire as well. I am not quite sure where else they settled in Lancashire...they say the last name Fleming...comes from "Flemish". I am not sure if its just a tradition or actual truth though.Yeah sack of wool in the House of Parliament. I recall the Victor Hugo's Man Who Laughs description of the customs of the House of Lords...amazing story by the way. Thanks so much again to everyone, input is very much appreciated. Kind regards, R
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Class_Movement_Library
thats the one in Salford, Lancs. Is that the one you mentioned?
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Class_Movement_Library
thats the one in Salford, Lancs. Is that the one you mentioned?
Yes. I knew it had a name change.
-
Flemish weavers came and settled in many places,noteably the East of England,Norfolk and Suffolk,Long Melford .Lavenham. Saffron Walden.
They brought with them the custom of brasses on burials in churches.
Wool was however the main textile woven.At first wool was bought to be woven in Flanders(Belgium as such did not come into being until the 1800's
when part of French Flanders and Dutch Flanders were joine in the hope that this would be a move for peace.So many conflicts have been "settled" on Belgian soil.)
When English kings did not pay their debts Flemings were forbidden to buy English wool thus severely affecting trade and cash flow.So of course the Flemish buyers resorted to smuggling.
The wife of Bath says in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales:-
,of cloty-making she handed such an haunt
She surpassed them of Ypres and Gaunt. Gaunt is Ghent.
Viktoria.
-
I think that "invitation" of Flemish to England by King Edward III is related to his marriage to Philippa Princess of Flanders. Maurice Druon book Accursed Kings gives quite colorful account of that era and marriage itself. But yeah that was 1300's. Looks like in the mid 1500's another wave of Flemish immigrants to South East Lancashire and West Riding Yorkshire, this time its Duke of Alba religious persecutions in Spanish Netherlands...actually Flemish even though live in Belgium, arent Beligians they consider themselves some sort of Dutch. So yeah Protesttants....makes sense Bolton was stronghold of Protestantism during the Civil War.
-
If it is of any interest this table from the 1851 Census Report lists the Birth Places of the people for the North Western Counties, and the individual counties, as given in the census http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ldw/
Stan
-
Kidderminster wow, it Worcestershire. Thats what I thought when they changed "Act of Settlement" which regulated migration to the cotton areas...people from the South flooded the areas.
And yes Flemish in Bolton, I think those were Continental Prostestants, Huguenots right, who came to England because of religious persecutions in Spanish Netherlands, its 1500 right??? They were in Halifax, West Riding of Yorkshire as well. I am not quite sure where else they settled in Lancashire.
Worcestershire is in the English Midlands. One of the earliest textile mills was in Northamptonshire (East Midlands) in 1742.
The Huguenots who settled in Bolton in 17th century were the 2nd wave of Flemish immigrants to the town. The original ones arrived in 1330s. They are also credited with introducing clogs to Lancashire.
The Huguenot Flemish wore fustian, a rough cloth made of cotton and linen. (Wikipedia)
There is uncertainty about when the cotton industry began in Britain.
John Le'land's 1540 account mentions cotton around Bolton, but he may have meant wool. Cotton was being produced 100 years later. At this time Bolton was becoming a centre for the emerging cotton industry. It was a cottage industry.
www.bolton.org.uk/industry.html
Adam Pendlebury mentions cotton in his will of 1608. This is one of the earliest mentions of cotton in England. See A Brief History of Bolton (Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society)
www.bolton.mlfhs.org.uk/History.php
According to "Children and Cotton" on New Lanark website, bales of cotton first arived in Britain in 1775. (This is unsourced.)
See also:
Spinning the Web - The Story of the Cotton Industry
www.spinningtheweb.org.uk
Follow the Yarn (website of Harris Museum, Preston)
-
Thanks again for the info appreciate, really good stuff and very helpful !!!
Did Flemish of first (1300s) or second (1500-1600s) waves of immigration
have their own settlements or they lived among locals. Like here where I live
in Ohio we have German Villages here and there...I wonder if something like that
was in Bolton areas.
-
Trade with Ireland goes back hundreds of years with mention here of Manchester men buying Irish yarn from Irishmen who came to Liverpool in Tudor times:-
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MRUHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=irish+yarn+liverpool&source=bl&ots=2yFU1lak1W&sig=XzJY153xwV982-mWMKTwoNmVgKM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLl9CuquvYAhWpKcAKHWggCMsQ6AEwBnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=irish%20yarn%20liverpool&f=false
Blue
-
Thanks to everyone for sharing info with me, appreciate !!! Truly great stuff !!! Kind regards, R
-
Ruslan's reply #8 and my reply #14 confused the later Flemish immigrants with Huguenots.
Correction: Huguenots were Protestants from France, not from Flanders. Huguenots were skilled in silk weaving. ( Silk and linen weaving were also carried on in Lancashire.)
Other towns where the Flemish weavers of 14thC settled were Manchester and Bury. There were probably others. Blackburn had been a textile producing area since Middle Ages, wool being woven at home. There's a painting of Queen Philippa and the Flemish weavers of Manchester.
1331 King Edward the Third invited John Kempe of Flanders "weaver of woollen cloths" to enter England "with his men" and carry on his trade and "teach it freely".
See: John Kempe and Friends - Flemish Weavers in Edward 111's England https://www.englandsimmigrants.com/page/individual-studies/john-kempe-and-friends
The Domesday Book Online
domesdaybook.co.uk/lancashire2.html
There was something about the Weavers' Guild of London and their reaction to the Flemish weavers and subsequent immigrants. Towns had craft guilds too . Their members would have had something to say as well.
-
I can't find any mention of cotton weaving in England before 1641.
As far as I recall England had an enormous home grown wool economy during the Middle Ages, including spinning and weaving of cloth, but all cotton would have to be imported, and I think that only sprang from Colonial and Empire countries later on.
Though I'm happy to be corrected.
-
Thanks again for the info appreciate, really good stuff and very helpful !!!
Did Flemish of first (1300s) or second (1500-1600s) waves of immigration
have their own settlements or they lived among locals. Like here where I live
in Ohio we have German Villages here and there...I wonder if something like that
was in Bolton areas.
Would it not depend on size of the town at the time and number of immigrant craftspeople? Suggest best sources for that information would be local history society and library and archives for each town.
There's a Huguenot family history society. I assume each group of immigrant weavers followed a similar pattern. There might be a Flemish FHS.
There may be a Weavers' Guild archive.
-
R ... I've been following this thread with interest, and you really have been given some very good advice, but I don't think there is an easy way of obtaining the information that you are seeking.
For the last 20 years I've been researching those who worked in the UK sugar refining industry, and I've built up a mass of information regarding the local workers, the migrant workers and the cities/towns where they lived and worked. There are similarities between the two industries ... local money, migrant skills, local and migrant labour, imported (slave trade) raw materials, early beginnings (sugar mid-1500s), 1800s peak, 1900s decline ... and I feel that there would also be a similarity in the research needed.
For sugar refining there was no trade body, no livery company. Company records and employee records have been destroyed. So my information has come from a huge number of general sources ... church/parish registers, censuses, trade directories, ships/migration lists, wills and probate calendars, burgess records, apprentice records, newspapers/periodicals, insurance records, books, archaeological reports, parliamentary records, local archives, family histories, etc ... and other folks' research and good will.
If the statistics are not available you may have to set about providing them yourself ... hard work but very rewarding. Good luck.
-
I can't find any mention of cotton weaving in England before 1641.
As far as I recall England had an enormous home grown wool economy during the Middle Ages, including spinning and weaving of cloth, but all cotton would have to be imported, and I think that only sprang from Colonial and Empire countries later on.
Though I'm happy to be corrected.
Cotton was first imported to England in 16th century. Early products were a mix of cotton and linen or worsted yarn.
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It doesn't cite a primary source.
Cotton was mentioned in the will of Adam Pendlebury 1608 (A Brief History of Bolton Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society)
-
For more on mills obtaining children from workhouses see The Textile System on Spartacus Educational website. e.g. Watson's mill at Penny Dam near Preston got pauper children from a workhouse in Southwark (London).
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It was mainly mills in rural areas which relied on importing pauper apprentices. Factory owners were paid £4 or £5 for each child they took.
Salmesbury mills north of Preston had large numbers of them. They wore yellow uniform so that if they ran away they would be easily seen.
-
Dear Friends,
thanks so much for all the input and feedback and the info !!!
Appreciate a lot !!!
All the info is very helpful and helps to see the bigger picture and better understanding.
My deepest and sincere appreciation.
Kind regards,
R.
-
For more on mills obtaining children from workhouses see The Textile System on Spartacus Educational website. e.g. Watson's mill at Penny Dam near Preston got pauper children from a workhouse in Southwark (London).
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It was mainly mills in rural areas which relied on importing pauper apprentices. Factory owners were paid £4 or £5 for each child they took.
Salmesbury mills north of Preston had large numbers of them. They wore yellow uniform so that if they ran away they would be easily seen.
Great work Maiden Stone.
Dressing them in yellow in case they ran away - speaks volumes. :'(
There was a tale, never verified, that someone for whom I was researching, had a grandfather who had been sent from a Barnardo home in London to the south coast as a fisher apprentice, while the sister had been put into a nursing school and brother had been "given" to the GPO. As I say, never verified, but the concept of taking children out of orphanages in London, and sending them off somewhere for employment is there.
-
I can't find any mention of cotton weaving in England before 1641.
As far as I recall England had an enormous home grown wool economy during the Middle Ages, including spinning and weaving of cloth, but all cotton would have to be imported, and I think that only sprang from Colonial and Empire countries later on.
Though I'm happy to be corrected.
Cotton was first imported to England in 16th century. Early products were a mix of cotton and linen or worsted yarn.
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It doesn't cite a primary source.
Cotton was mentioned in the will of Adam Pendlebury 1608 (A Brief History of Bolton Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society)
Interesting.
When you quote the import of cotton, does it state if they are talking about importing bolls for spinning and weaving, or spun cloth/fabric?
I saw a brief clip on TV yesterday showing how wooden bobbins/reels for cotton thread were manufactured, but they glibly threw "cotton" into the conversation when they should have been making the difference between the raw product, or spun thread to be used for for sewing, or bolts of cloth.
I was thinking that probably England didn't import much from USA or India before colonisation/Empire, but of course Eygypt was weaving fine cotton cloth. Probably other countries on trading routes as well.
-
Like others, I've also been following this thread with interest.
..........................................
Cotton history
In my downloaded collection of free books from Google Books, I've got Baines’ 1823 A Complete History of the Cotton Trade in Manchester. Although there will be information in the book which will have been superseded by more recent research (!), it has a detailed look at the start of the cotton industry in Manchester and bears out comments in this thread about what exactly was meant by ‘cotton’.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_JdYAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=A+complete+history+of+the+cotton+trade+in+manchester&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXiqCZn-7YAhVCLsAKHdRhCuMQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
See PDF page 83 or page 58 onwards in the actual book.
...............................................
Statistics re. labour migration in the cotton industry
RusianPashayev asked about statistics in the original post regarding movement by labour from the south to Lancashire. I don’t think that detailed information about internal migration during the Industrial Revolution can be found for free on the internet. – unfortunately!
I had a quick look around and maybe the bought version or library borrowed version of Rural Depopulation in England and Wales, 1851-1951 by John Saville might be worth having. A snippet version is available and looks good –
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EfVEAQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=internal+migration+john+saville&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyk8jOpO7YAhVEJcAKHXzvD0MQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=internal%20migration%20john%20saville&f=false
There is also
Labour Migration in England, 1800-50 by Arthur Redford.
There is also a snippet view available and the contents page is worth looking at – it’s a shame Map A in the appendix is not available online (Migration between Counties in England) and Map E for migration into Liverpool, Manchester and Bolton.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_hMNAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
I am sure there are more books around that would answer the original question.
-
Cotton was first imported to England in 16th century. Early products were a mix of cotton and linen or worsted yarn.
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It doesn't cite a primary source.
Interesting.
When you quote the import of cotton, does it state if they are talking about importing bolls for spinning and weaving, or spun cloth/fabric?
I was thinking that probably England didn't import much from USA or India before colonisation/Empire, but of course Eygypt was weaving fine cotton cloth. Probably other countries on trading routes as well.
[/quote]
No elaboration on type of cotton. Spartacus Educational website has bite-sized chunks on each topic with links to sub topics, people etc. It has excerpts from primary sources with some (e.g. testimony of former apprentices) and suggests a few recommended books for each topic. It's an easy introduction to a subject.
Cotton had been introduced to Continental Europe before Britain. There seems to be no certainty about when. Different times to different countries. The 2nd lot of Flemish weavers to settle in Lancashire wore fustian, a mix of cotton and linen.
When John Leland mentioned cotton production being a cottage industry around Bolton in his account to King Henry in 1540, he may have meant wool. www.bolton.org.uk/industry.html
I'm not sure if the fustian-wearing Flemish weavers had arrived in Bolton by then.
I've learned a few things about the history of cotton in the past few days. Many of my family were employed in the cotton industry in 20thC (+ a few in wool) and most of my mother's ancestors from mid 19thC onwards but I didn't know anything about the early history. The earliest of my mother's paternal ancestors I traced was a handloom weaver at beginning of 18thC. His 3x greatgranddaughter (my 3xGGM) worked in the linen industry; most of the next 3 generations of her family + some of the 4th were cotton operatives. So they went from wool through linen to cotton.
Edit. I think that information about import of cotton into Britain came from the book by Baines to which Ramsin refers in post #27. (I missed reading that post earlier.)
-
Dear Friends,
so how many waves of Flemish textile workers there were in History of South East Lancashire?
1st Edward III and Philippa of Flanders, right - 1337?And that was Bolton and Manchester (or better say Salford?). Looks like Edward promoted intermarriages between locals and foreigners, they didnt live isolated lives but established the families just like Edward did (hahahah).
2nd 1567 Spanish aggression in Netherlands under Philipe II and Duc de Alba (Flemish are Dutch, and yeah Charles De Coster book speaks about religious persecutions which led to it). Not sure about their locations in Lancashire. I have heard of Knowsley Cottages, which reportedly belonged to Flemish.
3rd 1600 (not sure when exactly) and what was the reason??? William III (who was Dutch)??? Not sure about the location either.
There were Flemish weavers in Halifax, West Riding as well...fustian, right.
Thanks to everyone again. kind regards,
Ruslan
-
Some more reading:
A Compendious History of the Cotton Manufacture by Richard Guest, published 1823; Cass Library of Industrial Classics No. 16. Other titles in the series, listed at front of book, may be of interest. Available as pdf.
A Web of English History - The Peel Web:
Population Growth in the Age of Peel
www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/social/pop.htm
Letter from R.H. Gregg, Styal, Cheshire, September 1834 to Edwin Chadwick, Secretary to Poor Law Commission regarding shortage of labour in North of England and suggesting resettling surplus labourers from elsewhere. ( Styal Mill had imported pauper children earlier in the century.)
www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/gregg.htm
The Poor Law Commission
A trial run of the resettlement idea moved 85 people from Buckinghamshire to Lancashire in 1835. The Poor Law Commissioners organised migration of 4325 families to the industrial North between 1835-1837. They arrived just as the textile industry went into a depression. Most people went back home.
www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlawcommission.htm
-
Are you doing this research as part of an academic programme of study, or for a publication, or what? You will get very specific help on here, but when I read your first post on this subject, it seemed such a woolly (sorry - but we did have wool up here long before cotton was ever imported) general enquiry, that I think some of us do not quite know which direction to take out knowledge in order to assist you. We seem to have presented you with enough directions for study for a Doctorate study.
Statistics you can find easily. What exactly are you wishing to study, please?
-
it is actually a "wooly" general inquiry,as you referred to it,ahahhaah I am a ballroom dance teacher/coach from Ohio USA, so as you can figure I am not on a Doctorate program or anything hahahahaah. Neither I write books, may be one day on ballroom dancing techniques etc...I doubt you can help me with that, hahahah Anyways, thanks.
-
but yeah you could see from my previous posts on this subject I mentioned several times cotton from colonies...so you can see I am aware that wool first then cotton, hahahahaha
-
Ruslan, Flemings are Flemish, not Dutch,they speak a form of Dutch but there are differences.
William was William of Orange well before Belgium came into being and Belgium was ruled by The Hapsburghs.Previously by The holy Roman Emperor and before that The Count of Flanders
In the 1800`s when Belgium was formed from French Flanders and Dutch Flanders French became the language but Flemings clung to their mother tongue. Flemish was proscribed and children had to pay a fine at school if they drifted into their mother tongue.
Nothing was printed in Flemish so the language missed out on the technical terms being used in the industrial revolution.It became rather locked a in previous era.
It is so like old English.
A group of Flemish writers could see the death of the language so began the Flemish revival.
The language was tidied up and a lot of letters removed from spellings.Previously people had been menschen later mensen -just as an example.
A wrist watch is "an arm band hour work" _en arm band uur werk, in Dutch it would be" en horloge" .
Flemish groups a lot of words together, Stadgentopenbaarvervoermaatschappij. ie The city of Gent public transport company.( This is on the side of the (long ) trams)!
It does not really go back to Latin roots.
I `ve never heard Philippa Of Hainaut called Princess of Flanders before.She was the mother of the Black Prince.
Best of luck with your research.You would have like a programme shown on T.V the other evening, it was about Styal Mill owned by the Gregg family, its use of child labour in very dangerous jobs.
It was originally waterpowered,a waterwheel.
Viktoria.
.
-
Best of luck with your research.You would have like a programme shown on T.V the other evening, it was about Styal Mill owned by the Gregg family, its use of child labour in very dangerous jobs.
It was originally waterpowered,a waterwheel.
Viktoria.
The Channel 4 drama series "The Mill" was set there. Events in the 2 series took place around 1840. Some characters, including the Gregg family, were based on real people. Styal is in Cheshire but the Gregg family owned mills in Lancashire as well.
-
Rather puzzled by the " hahahahah...s"?
That was a serious question on my part, intended to assist with defining what information would actually be helpful to find for you, by clarifying what you were actually interested in researching.
-
Going back to the first post on this thread and the interest in migration it's only by looking at the 1851 census and after that you will be able to get an idea of migration information by looking at places of birth. The 1841 census can be used but the detail is more vague such as whether born in county or not, born in Ireland etc.
Migration levels and patterns prior to 1841 are difficult to determine. Movement was mostly internal, migration not immigration, including movement of Welsh, Scots and Irish. Pre-1841 you are getting into anecdotal information territory where one person came from this place and some writer made this comment etc.
Blue
-
Ruslan, Flemings are Flemish, not Dutch,they speak a form of Dutch but there are differences.
The Flemish people (from Vlanders in Belgium) insist they speak Dutch ;D
The Dutch reckon they speak Flemish! ;D
Belgian/Flemish TV programs, when shown in The Netherlands, are usually subtitled ::)
That's as was told to me by Dutch friends during the time I lived in NL.
-
The various Belgian provinces have great variations in the form of Flemish they speak.
It is not only on Dutch programmes shown on Belgian T.V that subtitles are necessary,someone from Oost Vlanderen will have difficulty understanding someone from West Vlanderen.That is between Gent and Ypres.
As I said, Flemish was "trapped " in a time warp,having been a forbidden language for many years when technical terms were entering the language.
To go for so long without any printed material had a very limiting effect on what had been a living language.
It is over forty years since we lived in East Flanders near Gent and the influence of Dutch language programmes on the television has most probably had a very modernising effect on Flemish.
I do however find it a pity that everyday words which echo Old English
should be lost.
A Fleming will always try to help and will speak French if necessary whilst as Walloon will refuse to admit they can speak Flemish despite it being taught in schools.
Flemings talk to one another in their local dialect but will use ABN,the formal form of. Dutch for business etc. They also have good English.
Dutch altered and progressed but Flemish stood still,due to no fault of Flemish speakers.
Imagine being forbidden to speak your mother tongue.
T he same thing happened to Scots and Irish Gaelic .England forbade them.
But that is another matter.
Viktoria.
-
Just came across this old book so thought I'd post it here as Bolton featured in this thread.
Bibliographia Boltoniensis - Being a Bibliography With Biographical Details of Bolton Authors and the Books Written by Them from 1550 to 1912; Books about Bolton and Those Printed & Published in the Town From 1785 to Date
Author Archibald Sparke
-
A lovely programme on last night about Edward The Black Prince.
His Jupon ,which up until fairly recent times hung over his tomb in Canterbury Cathedral was copied. It would be worn over his armour and offered some protection and also so he could be seen and followed by his troops.It was in red and blue velvet embroidered with the coat of arms of England. Magnificent.
Of interest was the stuffing in the quilted channels, it was raw cotton.
He died in 1376 so cotton was here then of course.
I would not have guessed so early.
Viktoria.
-
Maiden Stone: Your comments about pauper/workhouse people from Southwark to work in Lancashire was really helpful. I am in Canada so not been able to get to England to trek this one out. I have relatives in both Preston area and London, some having spent their lives in the workhouses. I am finding DNA matches within one family for both areas....made me do some head scratching. So there is a good likelihood that my 2nd great grandfather from the London workhouses, did also have several children in Lancashire. I was actually looking for information about the Flemish weavers coming to Lancashire. I believe another family line was among them, arriving sometime 1520ish. Thank you.