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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Pam Herron on Tuesday 23 January 18 20:42 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone tell me if,with limited knowledge,it is worth travelling to Dublin to the record office
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If you give us an idea of date and the type of information you need for John Herron it would be a lot easier to answer your question.
In the mean time you could check out the civil certs here https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
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Can anyone tell me if,with limited knowledge,it is worth travelling to Dublin to the record office
Yes.
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Can anyone tell me if,with limited knowledge,it is worth travelling to Dublin to the record office
Very difficult to answer without knowing-
1) how far you have to travel to Dublin
2) what information you already have found
3) what period you are looking at
4) what religion family might have been
5) what information you are hoping to find
etc.
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This is all I have,John Herron born Dublin,approx1884,father John Herron,farmer. John married Annie Caroline Coniam in 1910 Southampton,where he was a dock labourer. He could not sign his name,he said his name in a very broad accent,it was written down as Earand! On the 1901 census he is in Devonport age19 a dock labourer. He is John Heran then. He dies in 1917 of the flu age 34.his name then is Heron. That's it! Need to know where born in order to get any further,,,he was catholic. Thanks so much for any help. I would need to fly to Dublin and stay overnight,so just wonder if any point in doing that! Pam.
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The link I gave you above gives birth certs from 1864 to 1916. (free)
Don't see him on a first look but many Dublin births are registered with out a first name.
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If his father was a farmer then it's unlikely he was from Dublin city but he could have come from somewhere in County Dublin.
Have you found him in 1911 census (we aren't allowed to do lookups for 1911 English census)? that one often gives a more exact place of birth than 'Ireland' or the county.
At this point anything to be found should be online (free) so a visit to Dublin won't help.
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I cannot find him in 1911, his wife had a baby on 23 April 1911 in 44 College Street, Southampton,but they don't appear to have been emmunerated,it's a lodging house. No sign of them on census. Thank you very much for advice
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Nearest I got with a father John, farmer from a quick search was John Hearn 1883 Kilkenny. Urlingford District.
Even if John & wife were in a lodging house at time of 1911 Census they should still have been counted. Surname may have been spelled incorrectly. Have you tried variations of name, including adding O, with and without apostrophe? Another possibility is that John was elsewhere when baby was born, working away. He may have gone back to Ireland and be on Irish Census. Was he informant of baby's birth? how long after birth was it registered?
Edit. Census Night in England was 2nd April 1911, 3 weeks before their baby was born so they could have been anywhere.
You said he gave his age on 1901 Census as 19. If correct that would give an estimated birth year of 1881 or 1882. What information do you have to make you think he was born around 1884? Both estimates may be wrong. You may need to search the birth certs for a few years either side on the link which Sinann posted.
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Was the marriage of John and Annie Caroline in a Catholic church? If so there may be a note in register which may give you a clue about where he came from. The Catholic church hierarchy produced new rules on marriage around them and required proof of baptism. As John wasn't a native of the parish in which he married he may have had to ask for a letter from his parish priest back home or a dispensation.
NB If a marriage registration say " at registry office or registrar attended" a marriage may have taken place in a church other than Church of England. A registrar had to attend weddings at Catholic and Non Conformist churches unless the clergyman conducting the wedding had been designated a registrar of marriages.
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Was this the child:
Ann Elizabeth HARAN registered 1911 June quarter, Southampton, mother's maiden name Conian.
Where did John die in 1917?
Where was his wife from?
Surname may have been spelled Horan on some records.
Wife of head of household where John was lodging in 1901 was from Dublin, as was another lodger so whoever filled in census form probably wrote down correctly POB as it was told to them. No indication as to whether it was city or county of Dublin.
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I looked at Herron on Irish Census. They were mostly in the North.
Have you tried Ahearn(e)/Ahern(e)?
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Firstly,many thanks for your kindness. I can see maybe WIlliam Curtinborn Dublin could be known to him,but just a lodging house with dock labourers And the like. Annie Nee Coniam the wife of John,born Devon 1881 married John 14 July 1910 in Register Office Southampton, his name given as Earand! Which in Irish accent sounds like Herron,he couldn't sign so maybe illiterate,or drunk!!!!!
Nothing I can see on cert about catholic, Married in the Register Office by certificate before me,crossed out is "according to the rites and ceremonies of the ". William Curtin could write his name witness ,with wife Caroline ,who couldn't. First child Anne Elizabeth Harron(on cert) born 23/4/11. Second Mary Helen born22/2/13 name on cert Herron. I have been to Southampton to see the workhouse books,where they were in and out of,and where they all ended up in 1917..the mother then left the by then FOUR children and disappeared, The husband ,John Herron died on 22/4/17 in Isleworth Middlesex,workhouse,of Spanish flu. Age 34.
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It's possible his father wasn't a farmer. A farm labourer perhaps, people often tried to appear more 'respectable' by improving their own or their parents occupation.
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I agree with you!
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Had a breakthrough today! Found John Herron's wife on 1911 census ,employed in a large department store in Southampton,living in,a dressmaker, about to give birth,but no sign of her husband! She was going under the name of Annie Herring,but mis read,but have been looking for her for a long time! As a dock labourer he wouldn't be in the army would he? When the third child was born,they lived in Custom House, east end docks London. That was four years later though.
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John may have been in lodgings in Southampton or somewhere else under another version of his name, gone to sea or returned to Ireland for a visit if he had family there.
Have you seen the baby's birth certificate? If so, who registered the baby's birth and what was John's occupation on cert?
Have you searched for John on 1891 English census in case he went to England as a child?
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Thank you so much,in case I am so involved with this wretched fellow that I forget to do so! Don't think John Herron went anywhere near the register office as illiterate,but am checking, Don't know if he is in jail,I have had a look but if under name not spelt correctly ? May try the newspaper index,do you happen to know what paper would cover Southampton?
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People who signed with a mark were not always illiterate just intimated by officialdom or not in the habit of writing so too nervous with official documents.
I have certs where a former governess sighed with a mark, and another person who signed their name and signed with a mark in the same month with the same registrar.
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People who signed with a mark were not always illiterate just intimated by officialdom or not in the habit of writing so too nervous with official documents.
I have certs where a former governess sighed with a mark, and another person who signed their name and signed with a mark in the same month with the same registrar.
I've also heard that some busy clerks and clergymen saved time by writing a person's signature and asking them to mark it, rather than wait for the time it took for a person unused to writing to form their signature. Writing with a pen dipped in ink was a laborious process for anyone not accustomed to it.
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Thank you very much, Just trying to think where he could be in 1911 when his wife of only 9 months is about to have their first baby,he seemed to always be a dock labourer, have looked on prison records,and newspapers,guess I might never know,but you folk have been so good in trying to help,and I thank you,most sincerely.