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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: yekepa on Wednesday 24 January 18 10:51 GMT (UK)

Title: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: yekepa on Wednesday 24 January 18 10:51 GMT (UK)
Looking for the birth of daughter to Lucy, the information I have so far is as below -

Thanks to Dying Out who gave me this information when I was searching for Sarah Sturman
1891 census
Has Edward,29 Drinkstone. Sara, 34 Risby. Elizabeth, 4 Risby. And Sister in law Lucy A Sturman, 20 Risby   All living at 45 Waldo Road Bromley Sevenoaks Kent

Lucy A Sturman listed went on to have a baby girl around that date, in Bromley, possibility that daughters name was  Lily and that after her birth, both Mother and Dau, returned to Suffolk.  Unsure but later on  Lucy Ann Sturman may have married a George Lewis Sharman in Suffolk.
Not to be confused with Sarah and Edwards also having a daughter Lily who was born in  Bromley  1897
Many thanks for any help
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: groom on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:24 GMT (UK)
If this is the right couple, she didn't have Lily with her in 1901

RG13; Piece: 1752; Folio: 111; Page: 7
Risby


George Sharman   32     Ag Lab                                          Risby
Lucy Sharman           29                                                         Risby
Edith Sharman           3/12                                                      Risby
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: AMBLY on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Yekepa

The sister Sarah - that you list above - her  married surname in 1891 - was HALL or HALLS, is that right?

This appears to be she, in Risby 1901:
1901: RG13- Piece: 1752/ Folio: 111/ Pg 8
Sarah HALLS 45, married, b Risby
Son: William C E HALLS 9, b Bromley
Dau: Lily HALLS 4, b Bromley
Dau: Elsie HALLS 2, b Bromley

Which ties in via the 2 girls to this:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7GV-ZTK
      where they are age 14 and 12,  with their Aunt, Lucy, Mrs SHARMAN

MARRIAGE 1899:
Lucy Ann STURMAN
Lewis George SHARMAN
Sep Qtr 1899, Thingoe

So that appears to all follow through.

But no appearance there, of a child of Lucy's born prior to her marriage....do you know if such a child was said to have survived childhood?

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: groom on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:34 GMT (UK)
There is this birth on Freebmd, could that be Lily? I cant find it on the GRO site to check mother's maiden name.

Births Jun 1892   
Sturman    Lilian Nellie        Bromley    2a   421
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:46 GMT (UK)
1901 census
Risby Suffolk
Fanny Sturman Head widow 67 Risby Suffolk
LilySturman granddaughter 8 Bromley Kent
RG13 1752 113 12

so it seems Lily stayed with her Grandmother and later she was with her Gran along with Frederick Sharman (also a grandson of Fanny's

Suz
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:49 GMT (UK)
Following on from Grooms find
SHIRMAN, LILIAN  NELLIE     -     
1892  June Quarter in BROMLEY  Volume 02A  Page 421   
 
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: groom on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:51 GMT (UK)
Quote from: rosie99 on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:49 GMT (UK)
Following on from Grooms find
SHIRMAN, LILIAN  NELLIE     -     
1892  June Quarter in BROMLEY  Volume 02A  Page 421

Thanks Rosie, that's why I couldn't find her. The GRO have transcribed it incorrectly, it is Sturman on the index.
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:52 GMT (UK)
GRO
Elsie Halls, Sep Qtr 1898, Bromley, mother Sturman

You need to check the 1911 Census where you will find Lilly and Elsie (note the relationship) . Search for Lucy Sharman, age 38

In 1901 Lucy is with George Sharmen and dau. Edith in Risby, Thingoe, Suffolk

GRO - Edith Frances Clara Sharman, Mar Qtr 1901, Thingoe, 4a 991 - mother Sturman
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:55 GMT (UK)
If only you could search that site without surnames  ;D    I tried a few times using all the info you had posted and finally got there with Surman - 'similar sounding variations'.
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: groom on Wednesday 24 January 18 12:26 GMT (UK)
Quote from: rosie99 on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:55 GMT (UK)
If only you could search that site without surnames  ;D    I tried a few times using all the info you had posted and finally got there with Surman - 'similar sounding variations'.

That is the one complaint I have about the GRO site, having to use a surname. Even if you have a reference number, year, district etc without a surname you can't find it. That's why I usually use FreeBMD first.
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: yekepa on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:44 GMT (UK)
My grateful thanks to you all it is indeed the missing Lily Nellie.
All makes sense now, I knew there were two Lily's, known in the family as Big Lil and Little Lil.  Mystery solved.
Many many thanks
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: yekepa on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:52 GMT (UK)
common sense tells me it probably is impossible to find Lily Nellie s father?  any thoughts?
Thanks
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: groom on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:32 GMT (UK)
Quote from: yekepa on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:52 GMT (UK)
common sense tells me it probably is impossible to find Lily Nellie s father?  any thoughts?
Thanks

Not very likely I'm afraid. As Lucy went back to Suffolk she obviously didn't marry Lilian's father.

Can anyone find Lilian Nellie Sturman after her birth, she isn't with her mother in 1901 or 1911?
Title: Re: Lucy Ann Sturman
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 25 January 18 08:26 GMT (UK)
Quote from: suzard on Wednesday 24 January 18 11:46 GMT (UK)
1901 census
Risby Suffolk
Fanny Sturman Head widow 67 Risby Suffolk
LilySturman granddaughter 8 Bromley Kent
RG13 1752 113 12

so it seems Lily stayed with her Grandmother and later she was with her Gran along with Frederick Sharman (also a grandson of Fanny's

Suz