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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: dawnsh on Thursday 25 January 18 18:42 GMT (UK)
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Now I know how we all love multiple duplicated online trees, until you find a piece of information and for whatever reason, you can't verify it.
So I'm led to believe Stephen Hammert0n was baptised sometime in May 1763, various dates are given on these trees but I can't find an entry in the IGI, batch p00760-1, or Ancestry and FindMyPast transcriptions.
His parents should be J0hn & Mary.
I would be grateful fi someone could have a rummage around and see what turns up that is verifiable.
Thanks.
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TheParish Register of Emley 1600-1812, which is a transcription of the actual register rather than images, is available on the familysearch catalogue. There is no Stephen Hammerton mentioned.
Emeltom
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Thanks, I've also looked at the BT's but again no mention.
Do you know if there were any non-conformist chapels?
I'm London based so this is out of my comfort zone.
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I cannot find anything on a Stephen Hammerton anywhere, nonconformist or not. Don't know what might be on Ancestry as I don't subscribe. Church-wise I could only quote the churches listed in the familysearch catalogue.
Emeltom
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Dawnsh, one CofE and one Methodist.
Parish records are held at West Yorkshire Archive Service, Wakefield.
David
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I have a couple of booklets for St Michael's Church, Emley baptisms issued by Huddersfield & District FHS.
There is no baptism for a Stephen Hammerton in the timescale you mention but there is the following:
6.12.1718 baptised Stephanus Hammerton s/o Johannis. No other info given.
Then, 12.10.1741 marriage of Stephen Hammerton & Elizabeth Silverwood. Again, no other info given.
Then, Stephen & Elizabeth have:
Sarah 1742, John 1744, Mary 1746. No more in Emley, so perhaps they moved away?
Could the above John (1744) have married a Mary (sorry, can't find a marriage in Emley) and named a child after his father? Again, sorry I haven't got Emley burials so I can't make sure the said John didn't die in infancy.
Not sure if that helps or hinders.
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Thanks Jill, it does help, but only really to clarify what we all know about online trees, there is a grain of truth somewhere but once an error creeps in once it's like a virus and spreads.
What I do know is that my person of interest died in1840 and too many to count have a baptism for him in May 1763. I do know though he was in Coventry for his marriage in 1787.
So if the marriage is correct, then this 1763 could be a complete red-herring. I've started another topic about moving from Yorkshire to Coventry.
Maybe he didn't come from Emley at all.
As a final check, and I know this is a big ask, could you tell me who was actually baptised 3rd May 1763, 21st December 1754, 6th May 1757, 23rd December 1760, the other dates are the supposed baptism for his siblings.
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Looking at the BT images on FindMyPast for Emley - there are no baptisms at all on any of those dates.
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Thanks Bumble.
Back to the drawing boards for this lot.
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The booklet doesn't have any Hammertons baptised in Emley on those dates.
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Thanks, it's starting to look like huge red herrings!
Will start having a look at neighbouring parishes.
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Looking at the BT images on FindMyPast for Emley - there are no baptisms at all on any of those dates.
Mean't to add that I didn't know about these, will go off and have a look for myself.
Shows I'm not Yorkshire focused :-\
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Haven't looked on FindMyPast yet but have been trying using Steven/Stephen Hamerton/Amerton/Ammerton but nothing yet ::)
Carol
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I have found 10 entries in the larger area around Emley , most have already been mentioned , useful site anyway
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/5a716a0c4325a612b5768a6a (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/5a716a0c4325a612b5768a6a)
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Thanks for the reply, always helpful to have more leads.
Dawn
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I wouldn't take a lot of notice of Ancestry trees, one tree had me down as died 2005.
Must admit I look ghostly at times when I've got Sciatica in a morning ;D
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Link for transcribed Emley PR's - year coverage dates in link
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE933776
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No we're not taking much notice but it is so frutrationg that so many tress ( and not just on Ancestry) have attributed a baptism on a certain date in a particular parish and for siblings as well and they just do not (obviously) exist.
There is most probably a grain of truth in there somewhere.
Brilliant link, thank you.
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No we're not taking much notice but it is so frutrationg that so many tress ( and not just on Ancestry) have attributed a baptism on a certain date in a particular parish and for siblings as well and they just do not (obviously) exist.
There is most probably a grain of truth in there somewhere.
Brilliant link, thank you.
I wonder if the year of birth 1763 came from this burial entry in Coventry ???
Stephen Hammerton burial 1840 aged 77 yeas = est birth year 1763
Left page 2nd entry 202 in link
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6XDS-NBT
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The year came from his burial but there are several trees online that claim specific dates
This is one, we don't know whether this is the originator or another copy
http://www.thanksfrank.co.uk/mellor_hammerton_generations.htm
which leads to this
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Stephen is our sticking point.
If I can't verify that date and the move from Yorkshire to Coventry, I'm not prepared to accept the rest of the information on the site.
I need to sit down and go through the link to the pr transcriptions and see if I can verify some of the other information.
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Find My Past has an index for the wills held at the Borthwick in York. Putting in Hammerton gives quite a few hits including some in Emley but others not too far away such as Silkstone. It might be worth seeing if some of them might have clues.
My other thought was whether there are any Hammerton wills in Warwickshire that might help.
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Have you found a marriage of John Ham(m)erton to Mary Coldwell parents of said Stephen Hammerton baptism or born 3 May 1763
The said father above John was baptized or born 21st Jun 1721. according to this link.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=168295.msg968796#msg968796
If you can find the marriage of the parents John and Mary ?? then that will be a start.
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A marriage is supposed to have taken place 2nd Sept 1751 at Mirfiled but when you look at the actual image John Hammerton married Margaret Coldwell not Mary on that date.
The other trees are slowly starting to unravel.
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Hi Dawn-sh
To put you mind at rest one way or another.
Huddersfield local studies library have Emley church parish registers on micro film and nearby nonconformist chapels (if there was any near Emley them years)
The library staff do free look ups with a keen eye, by phone, emails or land post with SAE or ask to purchase a micro film copy of Emley church PR for the month of May 1763 (be there about £2 or £3 with postage)
If Stephen (Steven ?) was born in Emley 3 May 1763 he could have been baptized much later ( years) or another parish or county
https://communitydirectory.kirklees.gov.uk/communitydirectory/organisationdetails.aspx?orgid=3101
There are 2 other possibilities ??? as trees online say BORN not Baptism 3 May 1763 -so the mystery origins of the date birth could be a birth entry in a family bible or a Quaker birth.
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The images for Emley are online at Ancestry, althought they are out of order and take some finding.
There is nothing to suggest major differences between the images and the various transcriptions that have been found including people who have checked other sources.
If people have just copied tree after tree after tree then the birth/baptism date discrepancy has been copied along. Those of us who have been doing this long enough realise the potential error.
I had my hopes raised and dashed at one point thinking it might have been something to do with the 1752 calendar change :-\
If though the family were Quaker, they wouldn't have married in a parish church, they would have been able to marry in a Meeting House in 1787
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The images for Emley are online at Ancestry, althought they are out of order and take some finding.
There is nothing to suggest major differences between the images and the various transcriptions that have been found including people who have checked other sources.
If people have just copied tree after tree after tree then the birth/baptism date discrepancy has been copied along. Those of us who have been doing this long enough realise the potential error.
I had my hopes raised and dashed at one point thinking it might have been something to do with the 1752 calendar change :-\
If though the family were Quaker, they wouldn't have married in a parish church, they would have been able to marry in a Meeting House in 1787
When couples of different faiths met and married who's to say ? also some people also seemed to change over the years between Anglican and nonconformist and back again in children's baptisms.
As far as trees, if someone put Sitting Bull married Mary Horncastle in Barnsley in Iceland in their tree - sure as heck other trees would copy it. ;D
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I wouldn't take a lot of notice of Ancestry trees, one tree had me down as died 2005.
dobfarm - that made me chuckle, perhaps you could borrow Mark Twain's famous quote and add it as a note to the entry :P
dawnsh - if any of the Wills at the Borthwick look like they may hold some clues I'd be happy to look at them sometime for you.
Pinetree
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that's a very generous offer Pinetree, I may take you up on it very soon.
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Possible origins trees source of Birth date 3 May 1763 Submitted 7/31/2013 by Gary Bannan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:3946-LGS
read notes 1
Death certificate copy applied for date 1958
A possible suggestion ? there is a 1840 headstone epitaph/MI with date of birth on for Stephen 1763 (If so - hence not a baptism date)
http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/mi/mi_covht.html
https://www.familysearch.org/search/tree/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Astephen~%20%2Bsurname%3Ahammerton~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1763-1763~
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Thanks again dobfarm. We have ordered the 1840 death pdf just to see what the occupation is.
I will follow up on the MI's.
I emailed the owner of one tree yesterday and they replied today that they copied the information from Ancestry and haven't verified the dates! so there's a surprise.
But he suggested Mirfield where the parents were supposed to have married and there's nothing there but I have
Hannah, 21 December 1754, John 6 May 1757 and Joseph 23 Dec 1760 but I have found these at Birstall
Hannah 18 Jan 1755, John 16 July 1757 and Joseph 27 Dec 1759, all children of Jno or John of Liversedge Park.
Now there still isn't anything obvious for Stephen but if the dates on the trees are births, then these actual baptisms could tie in.
2nd opinions anyone?
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The info on family search originates here
http://www.hammerton.uwclub.net/wc01/wc01_113.htm
The source is dated 2006 based on research done in the 1950's by a Mr Marshall..
Interestingly, there are no places given for the birth.
We are in touch with the family but they are currently on holiday but they have said they will get in touch on their return.
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DawnSH mentions Mirfield above. Many Emley Parish records are incorrectly filed as Mirfield on Ancestry. The records are fore Emley, the reference number is for Emley but somehow West Yorkshire Archives have put them in a folder for Mirfield. I have reported this on numerous occasions but the errors remain.
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Thanks for that Pat, though our mystery remains.
We have been in contact with the family who have copies of Mr Marshall's research from the 1950's. A copy of everything has been passed on to us.
We have managed to verify everything he found back then, our verification took hours with the help on the resources online, his reports are dated and he took months and trips all over the place to find out what he did.
But the elusive link from Coventry back to Yorkshire remains.