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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: caza1611 on Thursday 25 January 18 20:27 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Wondering if anyone can help as I have now hit a brick wall. My Great grandma was born about 1858 in Bray Wicklow. Her Father was James Jones but that's all I know. I have tried everything so has anyone got any suggestions or information please
Many thanks
Caroline
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Hello Caza
Welcome to Rootschat
May we know your great grandma's first name please? You have said her father is James Jones which is helpful but without her first name we can't get started with helping you.
Do you know who she married? What information are you looking for?
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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0509
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welcome caza1611
as suggested by Girl Guide to help we need a little more information
If she married, her marriage record will have her father's name and a church record could have her mother's name; the witnesses may have been relatives and help locate more information - so the date of marriage and her husband's name would help start the search
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There are about 5 families of Jones in Bray in Wicklow in 1901, which is obviously much later than you are looking, but could help with pinpointing an area.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Bray_Town/Ryans_Lane/1810455/
As said - we need a bit more information. including your great grans name, who she married, any know brothers or sisters and what Religion
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Hi
Her name is Elizabeth and as far as I know she was Church of Ireland. She married Arthur Heartfield in Dublin in about 1884. They were both living in Portobello Barracks. He was a soldier but don't know what she was doing there
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LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10910/5985288.pdf) to her marriage transcribes her name as SOANES but it may actually read SOAMES
Her father is shown as James SOANES/SOAMES a farmer
edited to add - Church record is written as JONES but her signature is JOANES
LINK (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-545-3-3-048)
There is a birth of a
Arthur Robert HEARTFIELD to Arthur, a soldier and Elizabeth FANNING in 1885 at 4 Eastmoreland Lane Donnybrook LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02637/1972574.pdf)
and
Emily Eveline HEARTFIELD to Arthur. a Sergeant and Elizabeth SOAMES in 1893 in the Curragh Camp LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02284/1857430.pdf)
These match records on the 1901 and 1911 census in the UK at Chorley with other children born around the UK. I'm not sure where the name FANNING came from.
Elizabeth is shown only as from Ireland in 1901 and aged 43 i.e. bc1858 as suggested but is deceased by 1911 as Arthur is shown as a widower.
Where did the address Bray come from please
edited to say I have found them in 1891 in Stoke Damerel where she is shown as from Bray Wicklow
I have found another marriage that maybe her sister's - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1880/11026/8032174.pdf)
Feb 11 1880 James SOAMES and Bessie JOANES (Father James a Farmer) both of Portobello Barracks
A Martha MURPHY was witness to both marriages
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Link below to the marriage register
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-545-3-3-048
Arthur and Elizabeth's marriage
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Anne Fanning was the informant, so looks like an error on the part of the Registrar.
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Anne Fanning was the informant, so looks like an error on the part of the Registrar.
Good spot Sinann - the son is listed on army and census records so correct
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Hi
My Great Grandma's name was Elizabeth and she married Arthur Heartfield in Dublin. They where both living in Portobello Barracks. He was a soldier in the ASC but don't know what Elizabeth was doing there
Many Thanks
Caroline
Thank you so much can't believe what you have found. I have there marriage certificate and also my Great Grandfathers Army papers which showed her name as Jones but my Auntie always said it was Soames or something like that which with your info sounds right. Again thank you
Caroline
Message posted on behalf of Caroline. Caroline you need to click on the blue reply button via RootsChat for your message to go through.
Regards
Sarah
RootsChat
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Thank you so much for the information, I can't believe what you have found. My Auntie always said it was Soames but on my Great Grandfather Army papers they put Jones. Does any one know how I can find out what they where doing at Portobello Barracks. My Great Grandfather was stationed there but why was my Great Grandma there?
Many Thanks
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In searching for someone else recently I came across a family that was not in the army but were caterers for the officers in various locations. There were probably several roles that people did that were not army roles.
As Elizabeth stated her father was a farmer it's unlikely that they were an army family
I have had another idea though - I wonder was she married twice as Bessie is often a nickname for Elizabeth?
This marriage (previously given)
LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1880/11026/8032174.pdf) on Feb 11 1880 of Bessie JOANES to James SOAMES Gunner RHA I thought was her sister
What if she was married twice? even though she is shown as a spinster on the marriage record to Arthur HEARTFIELD
attached signatures on church records
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Thank you for your info. As far as I know she was only married to my Great Grandfather as on her marriage certificate she was a spinster.I have a photo of a lady with a soldier who isn't my Great Grandfather and was told it was Elizabeth but I dont think it is, so could it be her Sister or brother? She has a black dress on and on the pocket is a harp
Many Thanks
Caroline
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It could be a sister but it is an interesting match
Bessie is most often Elizabeth but could be short for another name or used in its own right
If your Aunt was aware of SOAMES and JONES it may be that she was married twice; it could even be that she never told Arthur! or that the record keep assumed spinster. Then the photo could be of her. If you posted the photo someone maybe able to identify the uniform and see if it could be a Gunner in RHA as James SOAMES was described.
Unfortunately it still doesn't help locate Elizabeth's birth and family but at least you have a father's name at this point
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Hi
Can anyone point me in the right direction please. I'm trying to find some information about the residents living there ie soldiers around 1880. Are there any records and if so where are they held?
Thanks
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Which country/ county / town are these particular barracks in?
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Which country/ county / town are these particular barracks in?
I presume you mean Dublin?
Do you have any names?
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Hi
Yes I did mean Dublin. The people I looking for is Elizabeth Fanning and James Soanes. He was a soldier in the RHA.They were married in 1880 but I think he died but I can't find anything about that. She then married my Great Grandfather who was in the ASC in 1884. I think her Mum's name was Anne and her Father was James and he was a farmer
Many Thanks
Caroline
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I cannot find a death for James SOANES, if he died while serving in the Army Hus records were most likely destroyed.
You don't give your great grandfather's name so I am guessing it was Arthur HEARTFIELD, I see his records do survive and his marriage is recorded in them, only Elizabeth is down as JONES instead of SOANES.
If you have not already done so, I suggest you obtain the marriage certificates. I see also that James and Elizabeth had a daughter Jane Elizabeth SOANES, baptised on the 15 August 1880.
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Church of the Holy Spirit Rathmines
July 16th 1884
Arthur Heartfield
full age,bachelor,Corperal in the CTC
Aode Portobello Barracks
father,William Heartfield,a pRinter
Elizabeth Sones,spinster,full age
abode also PorTobello Barracks
father James Sones a farmer,
winesses to the marriage were hard to decipher Martha Murphy ? and MA Doherty
SO THIS LADY IS SAYING SHE HAS NEVER MARRIED,and not the widow of James
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Portobello Barracks
born June 29th 1880
baptised 15th August 1880
Jane Elizabeth Soanes
daughter of James and Elizabeth,
father a gunner in the RHA
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Here is the Soanes/Fanning marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10991/8018801.pdf
After the birth of Jane Elizabeth :-\
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Arthur Robert Heartfield
born 12th August 1885
father Arthur Heartfield a soldier of Newbridge
mother Elizabeth nee Fanning
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Second marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10910/5985288.pdf
It looks as though she has used her husband’s name as her father's name.
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I though some of this sounded familiar
topics now merged to avoid confusion
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Thanks Heywood
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And here is the Joanes/Soames marriage referred to in other thread
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1880/11026/8032174.pdf
And Martha Murphy is a witness, Radcliffe.
I’m a bit lost now. ???
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Soaues
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And here is the Joanes/Soames marriage referred to in other thread
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1880/11026/8032174.pdf
And Martha Murphy is a witness, Radcliffe.
I’m a bit lost now. ???
Snap! ;D ;D
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Another thread started here...
topics now merged to avoid confusion
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Hi
Thanks for all the info. Arthur Robert was my Great Grandparents first born and on the birth certificate her maiden name was fanning and at the birth a Anne Fanning was present so this is why I presumed she was married before as she is down as Soanes on her marriage certificate and her other children's birth certificate
Many Thanks
Caroline
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Hi
Can anyone help me. I'm trying to find out The Royal Horse Artillery that was based in Portobello Barracks in 1880/1881 especially a James Soanes who married Elizabeth Fanning. I have found a marriage and a baptism of a Daughter Jane Elizabeth Soanes but nothing else. Are there any records of soldiers living there around this time?
Thanks
Caroline
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Hello Caroline,
I know this is a new specific query but it is best to reference your other posts re James etc. This prevents unnecessary duplication of facts already known.
topics now merged to avoid confusion
Heywood
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As a snap shot, in February 1880, stationed in Dublin were B battery A Brigade, Headquarters of B Brigade and G battery B Brigade and the depot B Brigade so 4 RHA units, The official lists don't say specifically that they were at Portobello. By Jan 1881 only B Battery A Brigade and now K Battery B Brigade were in Dublin. At the time the RHA comprised three Brigades of 10 Batteries each and they constantly swapped locations.
Unhelpful except to illustrate the problem. I find no military record for the name.
MaxD
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Portobello Barracks
born June 29th 1880
baptised 15th August 1880
Jane Elizabeth Soanes
daughter of James and Elizabeth,
father a gunner in the RHA
I have just come back to this thread as a result of a new military thread
topics now merged to avoid confusion
Looking at the above baptism, it looks as though it didn’t happen. There is no Minister’s signature.
The entry below is identical apart from the parents names. Perhaps no child after all.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-271-2-2-057
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Portobello Barracks
born June 29th 1880
baptised 15th August 1880
Jane Elizabeth Soanes
daughter of James and Elizabeth,
father a gunner in the RHA
I have just come back to this thread as a result of a new military thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=792182. re James.
Looking at the above baptism, it looks as though it didn’t happen. There is no Minister’s signature.
The entry below is identical apart from the parents names. Perhaps no child after all.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-271-2-2-057
.
.
.
Did someone else start a thread looking for same person?
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I have some info Hallmark that is complicated ::)
Caroline has posted on the military board trying to find re the barracks. I posted the link but it is here again.
topics now merged to avoid confusion
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I have posted other information today on the thread below rather than posting here - getting complicated with threads.
topics now merged to avoid confusion
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I have posted other information today on the thread below rather than posting here - getting complicated with threads.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=789020.new#new
Ahhh.... thought it might be another person looking, didn't realize it was same person starting numerous threads!!
There's probably relevant information posted on them.
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I have some info Hallmark that is complicated ::)
Caroline has posted on the military board trying to find re the barracks. I posted the link but it is here again.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=792182.
No problem.
Don't have time to go from thread to thread to try to make sense of what and what has not been found.
Probably British Army records that would have been removed when Army left Ireland anyway.
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Hi Caza,
I have just merged together your 3 topics, Please post only the one topic otherwise if can get very confusing. If you wish the topic to be moved to a different board we can do that for you, just let us know.
Regards
Sarah ;)
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Portobello Barracks
born June 29th 1880
baptised 15th August 1880
Jane Elizabeth Soanes
daughter of James and Elizabeth,
father a gunner in the RHA
I have just come back to this thread as a result of a new military thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=792182. re James.
Looking at the above baptism, it looks as though it didn’t happen. There is no Minister’s signature.
The entry below is identical apart from the parents names. Perhaps no child after all.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-271-2-2-057
There also appears to be a line draw across it.
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Your threads have been merged and I am a bit confused again. I might have added to it by trying to answer in different places.
However, I will just try to summarise the various records and see what anyone thinks ???
As I explained I thought I would have a look over everything to see if anything new jumps out at me ;)
10th February 1879
Owen Weston widower Sergeant A S C and Elizabeth Fanning 60 Rathmines Upper Father James Fanning, Farmer
Witnesses William Havelock Bailey and Ellen ???
11th February 1880. Already noted elsewhere
James Soames and Bessie Joanes (father James, a Farmer)
Witness Martha Murphy
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1880/11026/8032174.pdf
23rd March 1881
James Soanes and Elizabeth Fanning already noted elsewhere but address of Elizabeth is 51 Upper Rathmines and Father James Fanning farmer
Witnesses W H Bailey and Fannie Bailey
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10991/8018801.pdf
16th July 1884
Arthur Heartfield and Elizabeth Soanes (already noted elsewhere)
Witness Martha Murphy
The witness W H Bailey
December 10th 1879
William Havelock Bailey Musician (Father Thomas) and Esther Fanning (Father James Fanning deceased)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11082/8055546.pdf
8th November 1882
William Havelock Bailey musician to Mary Boyne
W H B is a Bachelor on both marriages.
Everybody here seems to be single at point of marriage apart from Owen Weston in the first marriage.
The various Elizabeths might all be different but they all have a father James, a farmer.
I don’t know what to think. :-\
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Your threads have been merged and I am a bit confused again. I might have added to it by trying to answer in different places.
However, I will just try to summarise the various records and see what anyone thinks ???
As I explained I thought I would have a look over everything to see if anything new jumps out at me ;)
10th February 1879
Owen Weston widower Sergeant A S C and Elizabeth Fanning 60 Rathmines Upper Father James Fanning, Farmer
Witnesses William Havelock Bailey and Ellen ???
11th February 1880. Already noted elsewhere
James Soames and Bessie Joanes (father James, a Farmer)
Witness Martha Murphy
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1880/11026/8032174.pdf
23rd March 1881
James Soanes and Elizabeth Fanning already noted elsewhere but address of Elizabeth is 51 Upper Rathmines and Father James Fanning farmer
Witnesses W H Bailey and Fannie Bailey
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10991/8018801.pdf
16th July 1884
Arthur Heartfield and Elizabeth Soanes (already noted elsewhere)
Witness Martha Murphy
The witness W H Bailey
December 10th 1879
William Havelock Bailey Musician (Father Thomas) and Esther Fanning (Father James Fanning deceased)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11082/8055546.pdf
8th November 1882
William Havelock Bailey musician to Mary Boyne
W H B is a Bachelor on both marriages.
Everybody here seems to be single at point of marriage apart from Owen Weston in the first marriage.
The various Elizabeths might all be different but they all have a father James, a farmer.
I don’t know what to think. :-\
Look perfect!! ;D
Who/What is now being sought??
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Thank you ;)
After looking at all the information, I am wondering if Elizabeth/Bessie Fanning/Joanes is the same person who married James Soanes and Arthur Heartfield.
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Thank you guys and can I apologise for the mix up. I had most of the info but I was really just after info about Portobello Barracks but I confused everything tell I'm new to this so I'm really sorry but the info is invaluable. I think Elizabeth married Owen in 1979 but he was killed in action, she then married James unfortunately no info on him yet (but not giving up) but I presumed he was killed in action then met and married my Great grandad, with the name Soanes but it said she was a spinster but I think that should have been widowed but that's my theory. Thanks again
Caroline
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I couldn’t work out all the different posts with information so decided to collate it like that.
I think you are right.
I have read on here that permission had to be granted by the army for marriage so perhaps that is why James and Elizabeth married twice.
So presumably Elizabeth was not Jones at all but Fanning.
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I think so and when her first son was born her maiden name was Fanning and a Anne Fanning was present at the birth so it's getting there just wish I could find out about James. Also there is an Esther Fanning, could this be her Sister. The strange thin is that my Grandma who's Elizabeth's youngest daughter was called Esther Anne could this be after her Mum and Sister?
Caroline
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He is possibly the James Soanes with father Henry in Stanton St John, Oxfordshire
1861 889/76/70
It is frustrating that no military record can be found. I found William Havelock Bailey. ::)
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Hi
It is infuriating and he probably is as his dad's name was Henry. I will have to contact the Royal Horse Artillery to see if they can help.
Thank you again for your help
Caroline