RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: aus*jen on Saturday 27 January 18 00:35 GMT (UK)
-
This is a postcard from an inherited album, no writing on the reverse so may have been included in a letter. Would like to know the make of the car if anyone can help.
Jen.
-
Hi Jen...what a great photo..I can't help with the make of car but this will bring it back up the board for you.
Carol
-
I have tried on this one Carol, there is enough detail that it ought to be easy, but no, I think the car is more likely to be 1912ish, but not a model T Ford.
Mike
-
Try this one.
http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/previous-features/coal-scuttle-hoods-in-the-us-028884.html
Or if link does not work research AMERICAN COAL-SCUTTLE-HOODS 1905 >>
Alan.
-
Hi jen,
Nice motor.
This is probably an obvious question but have you tried searching for Jenolan Motors (Kat). I tried but all I could get here in England was links to the caves. You may have more luck being based down under. Possibly on a vintage car site. At that time I doubt that the were many foreign makes in Oz.
Regards
Malcolm.
-
Based mostly on the shape of the radiator shell I think this may be an early Austin, particularly as I can see a beading on the inner edge of the shell and the radiator filler cap appears to sit on an almost square small base which is part or the radiator shell.
Cars of that era were often available as rolling chassis, so there is little to go on other than the radiator.
In 1912, which is when I think this car was built, as those ornate lamps had died out by 1916. Austin were still offering custom built bodies to your own preferences.
Mike
-
Not the same car but similar photo perhaps
-
The very straight topped sides to the bodywork are similar to the standard Austin bodywork of that era.
http://www.austinmemories.com/styled-130/index.html
Mike
Just seen japeflakes post, the bodywork is very similar isn’t it
Added, page the link down to pictures of actual cars
-
I have visions of a handy camera man 'jumping out' at passing motorists and taking their photos as they drive by on their way to the Jenolan Caves. ;D ;D (I wonder if they had a fleet of different cars for hire to go to the caves.)
Amazing to have such similar photos, which is what makes me think that. Both taken on the same day too. Japeflakes photo has an army man in the back.
You didn't ask, but . . . . .
You don't mind a little paint work and de-Xing of occupants I trust, Jen? You have the original so you know who are family in the photo.
Your scans are a joy to work on. 8)
Sorry can't identify the car . . .but can see a tyre valves (I think) so not solid rubber wheels - is that right?
Wiggy
-
Another one rather similar. A souvenir picture as written on the bottom.
I understand you could rent a car & their driver would take a group/family to a nearby site to have a photo taken. This one is dated 14 Feb 1916.
-
They were big cars weren't they! - look how many people they accommodated with apparent ease.
Three photos within a month of each other and three different companies advertising (along the running board), and three different cars too. Must have been a busy tourist area even back then. ;)
Substantial looking building in the background there, Lady Di.
-
Advert from Mrs F. Campbell, Katoomba
-
Hi Carol, Thankyou for bringing this higher up the board. Don't you just love the hats and scarves on the ladies they would need those scarves to hold on their hats in an open tourer.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Mike, Thankyou for your 3 posts, helpful comments and the link.
Alan, Thankyou for your interest and the link.
Malcolm, Yes, have done a search for E. Campbell's Jenolan Motors Katoomba (Kat.) without success. Two other RootsChatters have sent similar photos, 2 cars from 2 different motor companies. Perhaps there is a Katoomba historical society which may have some details on these
obviously popular tours. The Jenolan Caves are near Katoomba in the Blue Mountains west of
Sydney.
Japeflakes, Thankyou for the photo, amazing that it is the same month and year as my postcard.
I notice a soldier in the Aust. army dress uniform in the rear seat probably soon to ship out to WW1.
Regards to all,
Jen.
-
The vehicle is parked outside of the (Old) Hartley Court House, on (Old) Bathurst Road, Hartley.
https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/things-to-do/historic-buildings-places/hartley-courthouse
http://www.lithgow-nsw.com/HartleyHistoricVillage.html
http://www.jenolancaves.org.au/visitor-info/hartley-historic-village/ look at that photo of the touring car full of people :) :) :)
JM
-
Hi Wiggy, That is a fantastic improvement ;D thankyou. All the creases and scribble by kiddies are gone, probably didn't have colouring in books in those days. The ladies looked as if they were blowing bubbles! Love the depth you have achieved, the original was so pale. Your restorations are
always so sharp ;D
Re the crosses: Wish I did know who they were Wiggy, family or friends of family maybe. There were a few family members who embarked from Sydney to the Western Front for WW1 about this time.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Lady Di, Thankyou for your photo, what great condition it is in considering it's age, taken only 1 month later than my postcard. I like the 'port' strapped to the running board and I wonder what the metal grilles on the running board are, they look like boot scrapers? It looks like a fairly crowded trip! The guys on this forum will enjoy looking at this one, maybe they can identify the car.
Matthew, Thankyou for posting the advert. - 25s. sounds like good value but was probably reasonably expensive for 1916.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Got a feeling the 'boot scrapers' are to do with having somewhere to tie luggage to. We had an old car like this (but a bit younger) when we were kids and had a similar addition to the running board. I know Dad secured luggage that way.
Bet one of the blokes will know!
Or are they to stop the paint work being marked by shoes and boots as people got in and out - or a bit of both?
Wiggy.
-
Hi JM, That is great detective work regarding Old Hartley Court House in the background of Lady Di's photo thankyou. Thanks also for the links, they will be of interest to those outside
Australia as well as to us here in Aus. they make interesting reading. Another great photo there too of a very crowded touring car ;D
Regards,
Jen.
-
Hi Wiggy, Some good suggestions there for the use of the metal grilles, didn't think of either of
those. Both sound very possible.
Jen.
-
Been searching old Horseless carriages - you'd think the two sets of traffic lights might give the game away . . . . . . Found three with those 'carriage laps. Tmodel Ford which the 'boy 'have ruled out, a Delauney, and a Rolls Royce.
Not much help really. :-\
-
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-229855349/view
This is today's chat with one of my older generation seated at dining table while I type up. He was born 1910, and he still lives in home where his 'mum was delivered of him' at Oberon NSW. As a child I was very familiar with the Old Court House at Hartley.
'So those city folk with money could sojourn at the Hydro Majestic, and the others had to cope with lesser conditions at Wallacia.'
The Machattie family at Bathurst were the first to have their own motor car.
Each of the hotels had their own car and driver.
Tours were organised by the hotels.
The cars needed to stop for water for their radiators at top and bottom of Mt Vic (Mt Victoria), and earlier, back at Knapsack Hill (Lapstone, near the present RAAF Command).
Meals were ready at the restrooms at the cafes along the way.
The drive to Jenolan caves and back meant overnight stay at Jenolan, or if that was too expensive, at Hampton.
Remember, there was no Warragamba Dam and sometimes the Nepean was crossed by punt way upstream of the current bridges in Penrith and Emu Plains....
JM
-
Thanks Wiggy, my OH is now very keen to search as well ::)
-
Hi JM Thankyou for the link to the Blue Mountains map, some very steep terrain for an open
tourer!
Thanks also for the wonderful insight into early history of the area by your relative, he is a great age, what memories he must have. Oberon is a beautiful spot.
Jen.
-
Couldn't resist a bit of a clean up on a good scan. :)
Yvonne
-
Yvonne, thankyou for the clean-up, great detail on the folks in the car. The lady in the rear
foreground looks less than happy doesn't she, can't say I blame her for that. Long trip on winding
roads in an open car, just as well it was Summer.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Good afternoon,
The original car posted could be a Russell, a Canadian manufacturer who opened offices in England, Aus and NZ. Sold to Willys-Overland in 1916.
They specialised in large open tourers for Aus market.
John915
-
Yvonne, thankyou for the clean-up, great detail on the folks in the car. The lady in the rear
foreground looks less than happy doesn't she, can't say I blame her for that. Long trip on winding
roads in an open car, just as well it was Summer.
Regards,
Jen.
They look well rugged up for summer, except for the driver. :)
If the elderly lady was like my grandmother she'd be wondering where the nearest convenience was on a long trip. ;)
-
They look well rugged up for summer, except for the driver. :)
That's what I was thinking. ;D Obviously a cool Summers day in the mountains! ;)
-
Cool?? Mountains?? In Australia??
Come on! I was taught it was always as hot as Hades and as flat as a pancake, apart from that big red rock in the middle. ;D ;D ;D
Hope you all had a spiffing bonza Australia Day.
-
My Gran. was the same Yvonne :)
Agree Wiggy, but wouldn't want to take that trip in the Winter!
Jen.
-
Great sense of humour Malcolm, we Aussies enjoy a good laugh ... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
We did have a bonza Australia Day thankyou, Blue skies, cool mountain breezes .......
Regards,
Jen.
-
Thankyou John915 I will check online for images of the Russell.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Jen,
:D
-
Just to clarify one point - we DO have mountains here in Australia. I live on the Great Dividing range at approx 1000m above sea level (I know that is not a very high mountain) and we do have snow occasionally even tough it rarely lasts until midday. The Jenolan Caves Road is a the bottom of my dirt road and I used to work at the hotel at the Caves.
In the early days it was possible to catch a train to Mount Victoria and then the following day go by coach to the caves - changing horses at the Half Way Hotel. Later people stayed at Mount Victoria, Katoomba or other towns in the Blue Mountains and travel to the caves by charabanc. The last 10 miles is very steep and windy and would have been a bit scary in an open top vehicle.
The Jenolan Caves Historical and preservation Society might have some information on the actual companies who took visitors to the caves - I remember some old books advertising these trips.
Jenolan was and still is a popular toruist attraction.
Jan
-
Jan, Thankyou for your insight into the early days travel to Jenolan Caves and Blue Mountains.
Have been to the Caves - by bus though after a train to Katoomba from Sydney, they are
spectacular. I will contact the Jenolan Caves Historical Society, thankyou for the info. I am
interested in these Jenolan Tours and their transport cars around WW1.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Hi All, Have been doing some serious searching today and have found a possibility, see what you all think. I have found a 1911 Talbot Tourer Type M 15HP which looks similar. The windscreen on this one is divided and the acetylene generator is located differently but the wheels and the general
appearance look similar. Don't know how to do a link but here's where it is. Note what it sold for in 2014.
www.classiccarweekly.net 2014/12/01/1911-talbot tourer/
Jen.
-
That looks very promising apart from the slightly different windscreen set-up doesn't it - bonnet cover looks right and the space between the running board and the visible exhaust pipe in that space.
The description of the body builder doing the work sounds as if he could have made alterations according to the wishes of the customer doesn't it.
The two people sitting behind the front seat must be on dicky seats I think. Is that what you call them? :-\
I can't afford that one! :o :'( :'( ;D ;D
Be interesting to hear what others think.
I had to put in Talbot Tourer at the top of that page to find it. ;)
-
I'd say that is a very good bet for follow-up research.
Well done!
-
Hi All, Have been doing some serious searching today and have found a possibility, see what you all think. I have found a 1911 Talbot Tourer Type M 15HP which looks similar. The windscreen on this one is divided and the acetylene generator is located differently but the wheels and the general
appearance look similar. Don't know how to do a link but here's where it is. Note what it sold for in 2014.
www.classiccarweekly.net 2014/12/01/1911-talbot tourer/
Jen.
I think you are spot on with that one.
Mike
-
Hi Wiggy, thanks for your comments, it does look promising.
Thanks Malcolm, somewhere to start from, would be good to know the year though. Some other
models of the Talbot have wire spokes on the wheels.
Thanks Mike, I was pleased to find it, husband provided the 'acetylene generator' description for me, looked like a battery to me.
Regards to all,
Jen.
-
Afraid not.
Wheel arches wrong.
Door shape wrong.
Bulkhead wrong.
Canopy mounting position wrong.
Door handles on exterior, wrong.
10 spoke wheels, wrong.
Armrest on front door, wrong.
Bonnet sides, correct basic concave access panel design, with slight variation.
The car in the original post has traits af several cars. Ford, B.S.A., Austin, TYalbot, Clement Talbot etc.
It will be a good one to find. It may be worth a look at other Talbots.
Malky
-
Well Malky, now you have rained on my parade ;D Thanks for your comments, are you saying
that the car on the postcard could still be a Talbot but different model made in a different year?
Regards,
Jen.
-
Hello
Similar car is a 1910 Star 15hp tourer .cant attach photo but plenty turn up if you google .
Lee
-
Looking at the progression of design, I think that this was a late 1890's, very early 1900's design. If you look at the changes in sleekness over time, especially that of the mudgards, they went from none, to straight down, (as in this car) to swept back in later models, and eventually enclosed under a full wing as they are now. There is no kick plate above the running/step board. That is also a feature which evolved from none to full. I, as yet, have not come across this design. Some things can change at the customer's request, but the one thing that stands out is the bulkhead. That would not change, as it would be a part of the original design.
Malky
-
Thanks Lee, I'll have a look at that one.
Jen.
-
Thanks for your second reply Malky. Just a couple of observations - you mentioned in your first post that "door handles on exterior were wrong" I can't see any exterior door handles only hinges.
You also mentioned "ten spoke wheels -wrong" I believe the car on the postcard has 12 spoke wheels. Do these 2 pertinent points alter your thoughts?
Your estimate of late 1890's early 1900's is interesting. Wiggy's excellent restoration reveals a
car that looks quite new to me and given the date of January 1916 the car would be almost 16 years old if it was manufactured in the early 1900's. Given the rough hilly terrain of the Blue Mountains at that time with some unsealed roads and the added hazard of kangaroos I would imagine a car of that age would have been replaced within that time with a later model.
Will further research the Talbots to see what can be found, you have certainly given me some
key features to look out for.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Bodywork in those days was custom built to customers requirements, these cars will have been adapted to carry the extra passengers, possibly by a local coach builder.
The only reliable guide is the shape of the radiator and shell, the bonnet and scuttle, and possibly, if you can see them the front dumb irons and springs.
Mike
Added, its japeflakes photo that has 10 spoke wheels, I think we are discussing the photo in the original post
-
Je, "I can't see any exterior door handles only hinges." If you look at the front and rear door, you will see a lever lock latch. These are pulled/slid towards the front of the car to open the doors.
Malky
-
Hi, Humpy radiator suggests Talbot, bolt through the middle of the radiator confirms it, and scuttle dates it to cca 1912/13. Regards
Vintman
www.svvs.org
-
Mike, Thanks for the explanation, good to know those details. :D
Yes, I think Malky may have been looking at the photo Japeflakes posted when he gave his
initial opinion.
Regards,
Jen.
-
Thankyou for pointing those out Malky.
Jen.
-
You have made my day Vintman, ;D Thankyou for confirming that the car is a Talbot and the date
confirms my guess that it was later than the early 1900's. Thanks also for the link, you could get lost on that for a few hours. :D
Regards,
Jen.
-
Hi all, would like to thank all who joined in this thread, restored the photo and offered great help
along the way. It has been a very interesting thread with a touch of humour thrown in ;D
Thanks Vintman you gave me the answer I was looking for in less than one and half lines :D
Regards to all
Jen.