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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Gordon Hughes on Saturday 27 January 18 10:39 GMT (UK)
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George and Jessie were married 12/4/1892 at St Mark's, Bredbury. They had a daughter Maud Frances Christabel Adams born on 24/7/1894 who has confused me !
On the 1939 Register her surname Adams is crossed out and replaced by the name Gregson, but I can find no record whatsoever of her marriage. The probate records for both her parents refer to her as Adams and a spinster. She died in 1969.
Any suggestions gratefully recieved !
Thanks, Gordon.
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Is she living on her own in 1939?
Could the Gregson name refer to the line above or below? :-\
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I can't see any anyone on 1939 who matches "your" 1894 lady.
Even using the 28th July as a birth date as given on the baptism record.
How have you confirmed it is her and no other person.?
When did her parents pass, could she have wed after that?
Been a daughter-in-law in 1939?
1901 census: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS6N-4GQ
1911 I can't spot a good 'un.
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Which death in 1969 have you got for her?
Mother died 25 May 1951
Father died 25 Dec 1943
both have probate to Maud spinster
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I can't see any anyone on 1939 who matches "your" 1894 lady.
Even using the 28th July as a birth date as given on the baptism record.
A free search with that birth date brings up Maud F C Gregson in Sale but there is no indication that the register has been altered from Adams on the transcript
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Just about to say is the 1969 death under Gregson because there is this one
Dec 1969 Bucklow
Maud Gregson
dob 26 Jul 1893
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On the 1939 register she is Maud F C Gregson, living with her parents George C Adams and Jessie I Adams, at 42 Harboro Road, Sale.
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Can you search /get access to electoral registers (pre/ post 1939) to see if Maud is Adams or Gregson on there?
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On the 1939 register she is Maud F C Gregson, living with her parents George C Adams and Jessie I Adams, at 42 Harboro Road, Sale.
Does it say S or M (Single or married ) :-\
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Doesn't make sense does it if the probate for both parents after 1939 gives her as Adams a spinster.
She reverted to her maiden name? But again she wouldn't be a spinster.
Don't see a marriage for her.
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She's married on the 1939 Register. As I say, what's confused me are the probate records for her parents, both of which refer to her as Maud Frances Christabel Adams, and as a spinster, coupled with the fact I can't locate a marriage for her.
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Interesting puzzle isn't it.
Do you have the death certificate for her as Gregson?
Would have been a late marriage if it was after 1951 but if she is down as married in 1939 it implies the marriage was before that. Can't work it out.
No Gregson/Adams children I suppose. Who was Mr Gregson ???
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Long shot but could look for a Mr Gregson death in the same area as Maud and see if there is a probate record that mentions her.
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Which death in 1969 have you got for her?
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Which death in 1969 have you got for her?
Like everyone else I can't see a marriage either ???
I had seen this death but wasn't sure as no middle names and yob 1893 not 1894 :-\
Maud Gregson Age: 76
Birth Date: 26 Jul 1893
Dec 1969 Bucklow Volume: 10a Page: 439
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She died on 13th Dec. 1969, so the probate records are in 1970. She appears under Gregson with a cross-reference to Adams. Under Adams it says "Adams or Gregson", and her address is given as Green Bank, Harboro Road, Ashton-on-Mersey, Sale.
It's possible that a) she was married abroad and b) she married a military person, which would explain why she's living with her parents in 1939. Her father was a retired solicitor so maybe she was married to an officer ? The suggestion to trawl through the probate records to see if there are any matches for a Gregson in that area or at that address is a good one. I'll also check the records for war dead, in case I can find something there. I don't think they had any children - there's nothing on the birth indices for a Gregson with mother's maiden name of Adams.
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The probate records for both her parents refer to her as Adams and a spinster. She died in 1969.
Maybe their wills were written before she 'married' :-\
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Yes, that thought had occured to me too. On the other hand, her father was a retired solicitor, and you might have thought that he would have kept his and his wife's wills up to date. :)
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Very true ;D I doubt buying her will would help either :-\
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She died on 13th Dec. 1969, so the probate records are in 1970.
She appears under Gregson with a cross-reference to Adams. Under Adams it says "Adams or Gregson", and her address is given as Green Bank, Harboro Road, Ashton-on-Mersey, Sale.
For anyone else looking here's the entry in London Gazette - says widow
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/45017/page/442/data.pdf
Do you know if Miriam Grime has any connection to the family?
Can you search /get access to electoral registers (pre/ post 1939) to see if Maud is Adams or Gregson on there?
As she appears to have been at the same address this is a good suggestion from PaulineJ
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Thanks for that. Yes, I'll see if I can get access to the electoral rolls for Sale.
As for Miriam Grimes, she may just be the contact at the solicitors, but I'll check further anyway.
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As for Miriam Grimes, she may just be the contact at the solicitors, but I'll check further anyway.
For info. in case it relates to the same person
Bredbury and Romiley U.D. Cheshire 1939
Norman E Grime born c1903
Miriam Grime born c1906
Sep 1930 Manchester
Norman E Grime
Miriam Brassington
Marriage Cert.
Norman age 27 occ Solicitor, Jepson Hotel Victoria father Robert Ernest retired mining engineer,
Miriam age 24 father Joseph railway inspector
Miriam Brassington Baptism 14 Feb 1906 Salford, Stowell Memorial Church, Lancashire,
Father: Joseph Brassington, railway inspector Mother: Miriam Brassington
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I wonder, did Maud have a hasty marriage that was very short lasting and her parents disapproved. This marriage perhaps occurred outwith the UK. Her parents may have insisted that if she returned home to them she revert to the use her maiden name so as not to alert neighbours and local society of the marriage. All supposition.
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Actually, I think that's quite a reasonable supposition. I've now had a look at the Cheshire Electoral Rolls on FindMyPast and up to 1932 she was still living with her parents under the surname Adams. So between 1932 and 1939 she must have got married and then in 1939 she's with her parents as Gregson. I'm guessing after a divorce, the marriage would still be on the records, but if the marriage was annulled would the marriage then be deleted from the records ? Anyway, the marriage was clearly short-lived and I think I can now safely assume there was no issue from the marriage, which is what I was really interested in knowing about.
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Hi, Gordon, you have raised another issue here. I thought there might have been an annulment. However, in all my family history research I have never encountered an annulment in my families. So your query re: is the marriage removed from the records following an annulment is a new one to me. I don’t know the answer. This query is probably better on another board on here. Would you raise the question, or should I?
Regards
Kathb
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Hi, Gordon, you have raised another issue here. I thought there might have been an annulment. However, in all my family history research I have never encountered an annulment in my families. So your query re: is the marriage removed from the records following an annulment is a new one to me. I don’t know the answer. This query is probably better on another board on here. Would you raise the question, or should I?
Regards
Kathb
Or you could contact the superintendent registrar yourself, and put the reply onto here
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Hi Kath,
So, I work at the Local Record Office on a Friday morning, and I spoke to a Registrar there. She had no idea what happened in the case of an annulment. I've just spoken to the GRO and they told me that even if the marriage was annulled the record of it would still be kept (mind you, they had to put me on hold for a couple of minutes whilst they debated it internally !). Their view was that the marriage may never actually have taken place and she'd assumed a married name for whatever reason. The other possibility is that she was married abroad (or at least not in England or Wales. I'll check Scotlandspeople in case she was married there), but that would be virtually impossible to determine.
Otherwise, I'll just have to write it off as a family mystery !
Gordon.
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Thanks Gordon. Very interesting, so if she did marry, she should be on some register somewhere. Another of family history mysteries.
Regards
Kathb.