RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: dmonaghan on Saturday 27 January 18 16:53 GMT (UK)
-
Hi All, I am struggling to find William Campbell, b 10 Nov 1873, Myall River, NSW - married Susan Gray 20 Feb 1899 Bulahdelah, NSW. Children were: Eric James (or James Eric) Campbell b 1899 Bulahdelah (my grandfather) ; Thomas Leslie Campbell b 1901 Bulahdelah; Norbert Eroll Campbell b 1904. His parents were Thomas John Campbell and Mary Ann Callaghan. My father (deceased) tells me that he 'left his wife and family and went to NZ' but I can not find any record of him in Australia or NZ or anywhere else that is reliable. My parents filled out his death registration and said he was a postal carrier. At their wedding, they said he was a tram conductor - but who knows how accurate this is. I have hit so many brick walls and none of my family are alive to ask any more questions. Is anyone interested in a good mystery?
-
You are researching the life of William Campbell, b 1873, whose third child was born 1904.
I am unclear about the generations here -
Thomas John Campbell and Mary Ann Callaghan....are parents of William -.
William Campbell, b 1873 married Susan Gray, 20 Feb 1899 Bulahdelah, NSW.
(this couple are your great grandparents?)
Children of William and Susan are -
Eric James (or James Eric) Campbell b 1899 Bulahdelah (my grandfather) ;
Thomas Leslie Campbell b 1901 Bulahdelah;
Norbert Eroll Campbell b 1904.
"My father (deceased) tells me that he 'left his wife and family and went to NZ' but I can not find any record of him in Australia or NZ or anywhere else that is reliable."
The "he" is the missing William?
"My parents filled out his death registration and said he was a postal carrier. "
Who's death registration is this........who is giving the information?
"At their wedding, they said he was a tram conductor - but who knows how accurate this is".
Who's wedding is this?
Do you have a death certificate for Susan CAMPBELL......is she described as a widow?
-
Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners Advocate 20 Jul 1929 p10
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/134493067?
This looks like the funeral notice for Thomas CAMPBELL, father of the missing man.
Do you have the death certificates for the parents of your missing William to see if, among their listed children, your William is noted as deceased?
NSM BDM death
3581 / 1927 CAMPBELL Mary A 3581/1927 parents James 83yrs Hamilton
17904 / 1929 CAMPBELL Thomas 76 yrs Hamilton
-
Thank you Wivenhoe - you have the generations correct - my father (Alan James Campbell) is the son of Eric James (or James Eric) Campbell who is the son of William Campbell who is the son of Thomas Campbell
Susan Gray's death certificate (1926) has a dash for conjugal status. Eric James (my father's father) is the one who registered the death of his mother Susan.
In 1929 when Eric Campbell was married, his father was noted on the certificate as William, a tram conductor.
Alan Campbell (my father) is the one who registered Eric Campbell's death in 1967 and there he said that Eric's father William was a postal carrier (however I have no idea how either knew these facts and it was clearly many many years later than 1904 which seems to be our last reliable piece of info on William)
Alan is the one who gave the info at his own wedding that his father, William, was a
William's father died in 1929 and William is noted as the oldest child and alive at that time.
William's mother (Mary Ann Callaghan) died in 1927.
BTW, I did find the death in Cooma of a William Campbell, but none of the details matched mine.
Also I found newspaper reports of a William Campbell, a tram conductor, who was killed in NZ, but the newspaper reports were very clear on the names of his parents, which were very different and that he came from the UK, so I gave up my theory of bigamy.
I really do appreciate any help - your ideas were great and gave me slightly different angles (even though we came up with no further info) I am an absolute stickler about having the certificates, or documents before accepting any facts, so I do have all their BDM certs to refer to.
-
NSW Electoral roll 1902 COWPER, polling at Bulahdelah
ALL with surname CAMPBELL
John Thomas, (of) Myall River, teamster
Mary Ann, Rosenthal, domestic duties
Thomas, Myall River, teamster
William Joseph, Myall River, mail contractor
NSW ER 1904 GLOUCESTER, polling at Bulahdelah
ALL with surname CAMPBELL
Mary Ann, Rosenthal, domestic duties
NO OTHERS with that surname listed for Bulahdelah.
It is quite possible that William Joseph, the mail contractor became a tram conductor. I have not found Susan, his wife, in the 1900s, sorry.
JM
-
He was a mail carrier.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/125104838
Sue
-
Thank you so much - I had not seen this before, which I do not understand as I did sit with all the Electoral Rolls and go through them one by one.
This takes us to 1904 and the big question is what happened to him after this??? Norbert, his youngest son, was born that year......
In the 1908 Commonwealth Census, I found:
1908 Commonwealth Electoral Roll - Adelaide (home duties), Augustus (labourer), Mary Ann (home duties) at Rosenthal; Susan, Mary (home duties) at Bulahdelah & Thomas, Myall River (teamster) I don't know who Mary is in this household.
In the 1909 Commonwealth Census, I found:
1909 Comm. Electoral Roll - Thomas (teamster) Myall River; Adelaide & Mary Ann (home duties); Augustus (Labourer), Percival (Clerk) at Rosenthal, Susan - Bulahdelah (home duties), George Edward, Lower Myall (farmer); There is a William at Tea Gardens (fish curer) - this seems a bit unlikely to be my William and there are other Williams in the family (sons in different lines)
I will keep on the Mail Contract line and see if something comes up but would really appreciate it if you could stay on the case......
Deborah
-
BTW, I found this one for a William Joseph Campbell in 1930 in Bellevue Hill but it is very non-specific as a Civil Servant and I could not find this person before or after.
https://www.ancestry.com.au/interactive/1207/RDAUS1901_100381__0001-00012/3417332?backurl=https://www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/person/tree/89527011/person/230006687148/facts/citation/760034292715/edit/record
-
Thank you so much - I had not seen this before, which I do not understand as I did sit with all the Electoral Rolls and go through them one by one.
This takes us to 1904 and the big question is what happened to him after this??? Norbert, his youngest son, was born that year......
In the 1908 Commonwealth Census, I found:
1908 Commonwealth Electoral Roll - Adelaide (home duties), Augustus (labourer), Mary Ann (home duties) at Rosenthal; Susan, Mary (home duties) at Bulahdelah & Thomas, Myall River (teamster) I don't know who Mary is in this household.
In the 1909 Commonwealth Census, I found:
1909 Comm. Electoral Roll - Thomas (teamster) Myall River; Adelaide & Mary Ann (home duties); Augustus (Labourer), Percival (Clerk) at Rosenthal, Susan - Bulahdelah (home duties), George Edward, Lower Myall (farmer); There is a William at Tea Gardens (fish curer) - this seems a bit unlikely to be my William and there are other Williams in the family (sons in different lines)
I will keep on the Mail Contract line and see if something comes up but would really appreciate it if you could stay on the case......
Deborah
Hi there,
I am somewhat confuddled by your comment that you had gone through all the Electoral Rolls, one by one .... Are you referring to the electoral rolls available ONLINE at Ancestry and FindMyPast, or have you been through all the hardcopy rolls held by various public libraries etc including the NSW State Library in Sydney. These historic rolls do include the online ones, but they also include rolls that have not been made available to the commercial family history websites.
Of course, these historic Electoral Rolls are not Census records, they are not arranged in family groupings, and do not include people who are not yet eligible to enrol to vote, nor do they show marital status or names of those residing at same address. It is entirely possible that the person listed on one roll had already moved on to another address and had not informed the local electoral office of their change of address.
The NSW State Library has an extensive collection of electoral rolls, including of particular interest to your quest, the 1920s.
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/blogs/new-south-wales-electoral-rolls
JM
-
William Joseph CAMPBELL, tram conductor, witness at Coroner’s Inquest, in NZ.
Auckland Star, vol. XXXVIII, iss. 144, of 18 June 1907
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19070618.2.49
And
NZ Herald, vol XLIV, iss 13468, 19 June 1907
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19070619.2.11
JM
-
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16055205 SMH 23 May 1923
Body found in Middle Harbour. William Joseph CAMPBELL, of Old South Head Road, Woollahra. I note there’s no apparent NSW BDM registration for this death. Perhaps the coroner issued a burial order and there was no follow up for the civil registration.
JM
-
Oops, I forgot to include the following .... perhaps just a co-incidence as CAMPBELL is a very popular surname.
Sands Sydney 1925 Alpha Directory
Thomas CAMPBELL, 578 Old South Head Road, WOOLLAHRA
JM
-
Search of NZ deaths and cemeteries on Auckland Council cemeteries database...a possibility :-\
1924/8786
CAMPBELL William 51 years
Burial
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lff/
In memory of William, beloved husband of Jean CAMPBELL, who fell asleep Dec 12, 1924, aged 51 years. To memory dear.
Paticulars of estates placed under the Public Trustee Dec 1924.
CAMPBELL William Auckland Tramway motorman 12 Dec 1924 Testate.
Cando
-
There is this NZ marriage which may well be the couple below.
1906/2655
CAMPBELL William John
TIKEY Jeannie
Electoral Roll
1911, 1914, 1919, Auckland/Manakau
CAMPBELL Jeannie The Drive, Epsom Married
CAMPBELL William The Drive, Epsom Motorman
You would need a print out of Wm's death registration to take the research further. May simply be a co-incidence of names and occupations.
Cando
-
Also I found newspaper reports of a William Campbell, a tram conductor, who was killed in NZ, but the newspaper reports were very clear on the names of his parents, which were very different and that he came from the UK, so I gave up my theory of bigamy.
Could you please post the link to the news article with the details. I've read all I can find on NZ Papers Past but cannot find the article you mention. I can only find the mention of a J HUNTER, in the funeral notice. Probably my age :P More curious that anything else.
Cando
-
Please find attached a very disordered collection of articles that I grabbed at the time. Maybe a different set of eyes might see something I did not see. I am sorry but I had to break my original document down to little ones to keep under the roots chat file size.
I am pretty sure I ordered the marriage cert or death of this William Campbell and the parentage was clearly stated and not my William.
I will look at all the info you have posted today in detail, but just wanted to make sure that anyone who is 'on the case' can continue their momentum with this info I had previously found.
I am very grateful to you all - please stay on the case - I know myself that I get on a roll and it really bugs me when I can't quite unlock the mystery for someone. I do appreciate the extra sets of ideas and also, different people are familiar with different source documents. He has to be out there somewhere........
Deborah
-
Sorry about the multiple posts with attachments - I had trouble getting the right size and format for roots chat.
-
Another few
-
What was William's occupation when he married Susan and when his youngest child was born?
I can see that son (Thomas) Leslie died in July 1919, but what happened in June 1919?
14 June 1919
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139437403
MRS. CAMPBELL & FAMILY wish to thank Mrs Hunt, also Mrs Dymott and family, for their kindness and sympathy during our sad trouble. Mrs. Campbell, Ridge-street, Merewether.
Debra :)
-
I am no real help here, but curious about the passage in the death notice mentioning William died at the home of his uncle. J HUNTER.
If used in its correct sense his uncle would need to be-
his mother's brother
his mother's sister's husband
his father's brother
his father's sister's husband.
Is anything known of J. HUNTER of Church Street?
Sue
-
Hello All,
I did have this from my grandfather's(Eric James Campbell) effects - I don't know if it was a little note or something that was cut out as I do not have these effects anymore.
Campbell - In memory of our beloved son & brother Leslie who passed away July 6 1919 age 18 years.The spirit of a True & Loving Soul never can our hearts forget the sorrow of the past when grief has left so deep a wound the pain must always last a devoted son a faithful brother
SO, thank you, I will look further in to this death as I do not have his death certificate.
Also, I do have the original Marriage Cert of Susan Gray and William Campbell - have attached the transcript of it - he was a labourer and she was the domestic daughter of a Gentleman. She came from Victoria so was she a governess of something like this?
-
Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners' Advocate 6th July 1921
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/141075918
CAMPBELL.-In memory of our beloved son and brother, Leslie, who passed away July 6, 1919.
Never can our hearts forget
The sorrow of the past,
When grief has left so deep a wound,
The pain must always last,
Leaving an aching void this world can never flll
Never forgotten by his mother and brothers, Eric and Norbert, Ridge-street, Merewether.
Also 6th July 1922 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139347704
7th July 1924 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/137643097
-
Thank you so much - I guess I will have to try to find out how he died. On the subject of William Campbell of Woollahra, have found this much:
The Inquest records at State Records, the Series is 2766 item 3/955 Roll 343 - City Coroner Register of Inquests and Reports spread across a number of years.
No. 700 William Joseph CAMPBELL (before J Jamieson, P.M.) at City Coroners Court on June 1. Received June 7, age 64, born Newcastle, died Middle Harbour. Verdict asphyxia from drowning, but how or by what means evidence does not enable to say. (Found dead with marks of violence) Property real estate 1000 pounds joint owner. Doctor A.A.Palmer P.M. held.
[then various coding in column labeled Remarks]
-
Leslie died from influenza.
http://www.nma.gov.au/online_features/defining_moments/featured/influenza-pandemic
Leslie Campbell, son of Mrs. Campbell, of Ridge-street, Merewether, died at his residence last night from Influenza. He was 18 years of age, and a promising youth. The funeral took place this afternoon, and was attended by many friends. A number of the members of the Junction Lodge of the Manchester Unity Order or Oddfellows also walked in the procession. The interment was in the Catholic cemetery at Sandgate.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/162561523
Debra :)
-
Hi Everyone, Thank you so much for helping me - I have never used Roots Chat before, and thought I was not too bad with tracking things down, but this collective brains trust is amazing. I have searched some of the same resources you have and not come up with the same articles - so I am completely blown away by this and will use it again. I will be going to State Records next Saturday to take a look at William Campbell's Coroner's report - hopefully this is my great grandfather (though it looks like he died from something violent)
I will keep on it and I do hope you will too.
-
Hi Debra,
Will need to check this about Leslie - my father's family are all staunchly identified with Presbyterian so I am surprised to see a Catholic funeral here.
I have not been able to track Susan Campbell down in those intervening years on Electoral Rolls, etc, so maybe we don't have the right one? Though it looks right.
Also, my Susan was Bulahdelah and Stroud based - but the Merewether thing is definitely a possibility. Will have to track through the Electoral Rolls, I think
-
Just checked - you are right - the burial, etc of Leslie Campbell was Catholic, as was his mother Susan Campbell - they are buried together.
So, back to William Campbell and what happened to him after 1904 until ? the death in 1923?
-
Do you have the death certificates of Thomas and Mary Ann, parents of your missing William, to see how they account for their children eg. deceased.
-
Thomas (William's father) died in 1929 and William was on the Death Certificate - all children noted as Living - this was notified by AJ Stewart, the husband of one of William's sisters.
I don't have Mary Ann's death certificate - she died in 1927.
But if no one knew where he was, then perhaps it is not unusual for him to be still noted on his father's death certificate as living - only when we know what happened to him will we know the truth of this. Thanks for the hint - will search out Mary Ann's death certificate.
-
This makes it all more intriguing? Was he alive then? We will pull out her Deceased File at the State Records next weekend
-
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/134493067 20 July 1929 NMH .... Several notices for Thomas CAMPBELL's funeral .... none mention Mr (and Mrs) W J Campbell ...
JM
-
Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners' Advocate (NSW : 1876 - 1954) Tuesday 19 March 1929 Page 1
In the Supreme Court of New South Wales — Probate Jurisdiction — In the Will of Mary Ann Campbell, late of Hamilton in the State of New South Wales, married woman, deceased —Pursuant to the Wills, Probate and Administration Act 1898 and the Testator's Family, Maintenance and Guardianship of Infants' Act 1916. Notice is hereby required that every creditor or other person claiming any claim against the estate of Mary Ann Campbell the above named deceased, who died on or about the 19th day of March 1927, and Probate of whose will was on the 7th day of October 1927 granted by the Supreme Court of New South Wales in its Probate Jurisdiction to James Augustin Campbell of Coffs Harbour, in the said State of New South Wales, one of the Executors in the said will named William Joseph Campbell, the other Executors in the said will named, having renounced Probate thereof, is hereby required to send particulars in writing, to such claim to the said James Augustin Campbell, in care of the undersigned Thomas Torpey at this office hereunder mentioned, on or before the 30th day of April, 1929, at the expiration of which time the said James Augustin Campbell will proceed to distribute the assets of the said deceased amongst the persons entitled thereto, having regard only to the claims of which he then has notice. And notice is hereby further given that the said James Augustin Campbell will not be liable to any person of whose claim he shall not have had notice at the time of such ditribution. Dated this sixteenth day of March 1929. Thos Torpey, Proctor for the Executor, Bank Chambers, 17 Bolton Street, Newcastle. Sydney agent: Emil E. J. Ford, Solicitor 350 George Street.
-
....my father's family are all staunchly identified with Presbyterian so I am surprised to see a Catholic funeral here.
The CAMPBELLs were Catholics, see Thomas' funeral notice.
Debra :)
-
Hi Majm - Susan Gray Campbell, William's wife, died in 1926, so that explains why she was not mentioned. Eric Campbell was my grandfather and William's son - he is mentioned; Norbert, his brother is mentioned too. Slowly closing in, I hope.......
-
On Susan's d.c. was her status recorded as Widow?
JM
-
Interestingly Conjugal Status had a - instead of any words.
?Is this a reflection of the fact that they did not know where he was?
-
Interestingly Conjugal Status had a - instead of any words.
?Is this a reflection of the fact that they did not know where he was?
What is stated as the relationship of informant to deceased? Are you reading from a full or partial official transcription ? If partial it may be the status was NOT ordered...
But a long 'dash' on a real deal certificate usually indicates the answer to that question was not noted. That's the difference between 'un-stated' and 'unknown' ... assuming NSWBDM practices pre WWII.
JM
-
Hi there, the informant was my grandfather, Eric.
I am reading from a Full Transcript ordered from Marilyn Rowan
Transcript attached