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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: gilesc on Sunday 28 January 18 15:13 GMT (UK)
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Dear all,
May E Ballard is my paternal grandmother.
I can't find ANY birth, marriage or death registrations for her apart from the Census. See below.
On my father's birth certificate Mary/May goes by the name of Burdett which fits in with the 1911 census. My father was later adopted. From oral family histories I was told he was adopted privately via a Catholic adoption organisation. I have spoken to the agency and they can find no trace for me.
This is what I do have,
Birth
abt 1882 • Bournemouth, Hampshire, England
3 Sources
1882
(AGE)
EDIT
Residence
1891 • 49 Radnor St, Chelsea, London, England
Relation to Head: Daughter
1 Source
1891
9
Residence
1901 • Chelsea, London, England
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
1 Source
1901
19
Residence
02 Apr 1911 • 139 Elm Park Mansions, Chelsea, London, England
Marital Status: Widowed; Relation to Head of House: House Keeper
1 Source
The first census she appears in does say she was born in Bournemouth, the later ones state she lived in London. Her Ballard family came from the Portsmouth/Portsea areas so it does make sense she was born in Hamapshire.
I do know that in the past women who were not married but pregnant did describe themselves as widows. I have searched all marriage records between 1901 ( when May was single) up until 1911( when she is a widow).
If anyone can help I would be so grateful. At the moment I feel I'm chasing a will o the wisp person.
Kind regards
Carolyn
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You say she is 'daughter' on census - who are her parents
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On my father's birth certificate Mary/May goes by the name of Burdett which fits in with the 1911 census.
So does that say Burdett with maiden name Ballard?
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BALLARD, MARY ELLEN ELIZA mmn EVANS
1882 June Quarter
CHRISTCHURCH, HANTS Volume 02B Page 665
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BALLARD, MARY ELLEN ELIZA mmn EVANS
1882 June Quarter
CHRISTCHURCH, HANTS Volume 02B Page 665
Well done, that's her as it also fits with the youngest daughter from the 1901
BALLARD, KATE SARAH mmn EVANS
1891 J Quarter CHELSEA
Volume 01A Page 396 Order
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George John Ballard, Mar Qtr 1879, Haverfordwest, 11a 897 - mother's maiden name Evans
George J ballard, age 12, born Haverfordwest is on the 1891 Census
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gilesc, what information made you take the jump from Burdet to Ballard :-\
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gilesc, what information made you take the jump from Burdet to Ballard :-\
That's what I was wondering earlier - we need to know exactly what it says on her son's birth certificate.
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=426414.msg2913723#msg2913723
I have just got a copy of my father's birth certificate.
He was born on 5th May 1911 at 139 Elm Park Mansions Chelsea.
His mother's name on cert is Mary Burdett of no occupation, father is unknown.
Mary does not appear on the 1911 census and her name is the only info I have.
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=426414.msg2913723#msg2913723
I have just got a copy of my father's birth certificate.
He was born on 5th May 1911 at 139 Elm Park Mansions Chelsea.
His mother's name on cert is Mary Burdett of no occupation, father is unknown.
Mary does not appear on the 1911 census and her name is the only info I have.
So where is the Ballard name coming from?
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:-\ ::)
This looks like the Bournemouth Mary Ballard
Marriages Sep qtr 1905 - Fulham reg district
Ballard Mary Ellen E
Bristowe Frederick T H
Dawes George Henry
Forsgate Annie Maud
She married George Dawes
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That child was born after 1911 census - have you noticed what it says about children for her ::)
Census was taken 2 April 1911
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Blimey you are all fantastic. My husband made the jump from Burdet to Ballard via May's sister Kate.
On my father's birth certificate the father 's name and occupation is left blank. And, NO I had never noticed the living child born before 1911. I could kick myself. And now I've got her marriage certificate online. Poor dad, he never found out his origins and didn't even know he was adopted until after he married my mum.
I can't thank you enough,
Carolyn
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Sorry, I am not sure what you mean.
Mary E Ballard born Bournemouth is married to George Daws and with him in 1911 so can't be the same person as May Burdet
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And now I've got her marriage certificate online.
What marriage certificate?
Can you explain the link between Burdett and Ballard - how did your husband get that through the sister?
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Morning ,
Absolute apologies to you all. My husband now thinks he had an "elderly moment" when he connected May to the Ballard family.
I don't know what to say. I am so so sorry to have wasted all your time and still can't quite believe how this happened.
I'll now delete all my Ballards in my tree and go back to trying to trace a marriage between a May, and someone called Burdet.
I'm so disappointed but at least I now know there are no Ballards in my tree.
Once again, thank you very much for spending the time you have .
Regards
Carolyn
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On your fathers birth certificate is their any indication that his mother was married, does it give any other surnames for her other than Burdett.
If she is only named as Burdett on the birth I would be more inclined to treat her as single and ignore the widowed in 1911. When women called themselves widows when they had children or were pregnant they tended to keep their original surname. It is possible that she had another child before 1911 but that could also be an error.
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Glad that is sorted. So we are back to May Burnett who appears in the 1911 and who gave birth to your father in 1911 but with no information before or after that? As Rosie said, I would assume until proved otherwise that she was single, housekeepers out of courtesy were often called Mrs.
As she was a housekeeper to a single man not much older than she was in 1911, and your father was born in that house, my suspicions would be that Mr Grove was the father! Look who else was there and her profession, was that ready for the birth? Seems odd to me that a single man would allow his housekeeper to give birth in his house.
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I wonder whether there is any link to Norwich-born Eva Burdett (c1887), in service in Elm Park Gardens?
I agree the set-up in the Grove household looks like a cover for unmarried cohabitation.
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Hello Rosie,
I totally agree with you re the widow "claim". It was common back then I think. Also, on the 1911 census she describes herself as " housekeeper", maybe I'm just too cynical . I can't help thinking why would a single man i.e. John Grove who is at the same census address, employ a single pregnant woman as housekeeper, he describes himself as single and having being born in India. ( Can't trace him either!!!!!), again I'm being cynical.
There is no info on my dad's birth certificate.
Do you know whether it was common not to register a child's birth for just over a month. Dad was born 5th May 1911 but not registered until June 14th. On the birth cert May says she has no occupation even though she is still at the census address of 139 Elm Park Mansions.
Once again, many thanks for your help.
All the best
Carolyn
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The primary registration window was officially 42 days so I think it was just about within that.
I don’t think you are being cynical - just sensibly reading between the lines.
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Maybe she waited until she was able to register the birth herself, remember that women were kept in bed a lot longer after childbirth then.
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No voters were registered at 139 Elm Park Mansions 1911-1914.
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Well I can't say I'm not surprised John Grove didn't register on the voter list, and May couldn't vote cos she was a woman.
I think they were both under the radar and stayed that way. It's a real shame between us we can't crack this mystery. Personally, I'm very sad but I'm now going to delete the Ballards from my tree and try to check out the Norwich connnection, so many thanks for this AVM ( and all of you also).
AND it's pouring with rain!
Carolyn
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Don’t give up on us yet - we’ve barely started!
Elm Park Mansions was built just after the turn of the century so was pretty new in 1911. It’s in Camera Place, Chelsea.
There is a John William Grove at 45 Camera Square, Chelsea, 1894-1900. He may be worth looking for in 1901.
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To you all,
You are so quick and professional and so very helpful. I'm pretty close to tears at the moment.
Carolyn
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I wouldn't give up on the fact that May Burdet (with one t in the census) says she was born in Bournemouth. It's rather a strange place to pick if she wasn't born there, and quite specific. It would have been much easier to have just said that she was born in London.
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Don’t give up on us yet - we’ve barely started!
Elm Park Mansions was built just after the turn of the century so was pretty new in 1911. It’s in Camera Place, Chelsea.
There is a John William Grove at 45 Camera Square, Chelsea, 1894-1900. He may be worth looking for in 1901.
Just following up on this - unfortunately John William Grove was not at 45 Camera Square in 1901, when it was split into two households headed by Edward Wyatt and Charles Odell respectively.
RG13/71/80/10
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I wouldn't give up on the fact that May Burdet (with one t in the census) says she was born in Bournemouth. It's rather a strange place to pick if she wasn't born there, and quite specific. It would have been much easier to have just said that she was born in London.
I agree about the birthplace, and would be inclined to think that if she is said to be a widow and to have had a child before, then (at 30) it’s more likely than not that she had been married (whether that resulted in bereavement or estrangement).
The Burdett spelling (when she was the informant of the birth) may be more reliable than the Burdet spelling (entered by John Grove on the household return).
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I'm not sure about the widow. If that was correct her maiden name should be on the birth certificate as well as the name Burdett i.e. Burdett formery xxxxxxx.
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I'm not sure about the widow. If that was correct her maiden name should be on the birth certificate as well as the name Burdett i.e. Burdett formery xxxxxxx.
Agreed - I’m not sure about any of it to be honest! But there’s no obvious May Burdet(t) born in Bournemouth - and any anomalies in the birth registration may reflect coyness about her unusual domestic set-up.
To rule out a couple of things:
George Burdett and May Hutt are on the same page of marriages (1909 Kensington) but did not marry each other.
She is not the May Helen Greene who married Horace Frank Burdett (1910 Norwich) - this couple emigrated together to Canada.
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George Burdett and May Hutt are on the same page of marriages (1909 Kensington) but did not marry each other.
Agreed, I was about to post that - he married Hilda Selleck.
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Tell me I'm clutching at straws.
I have found a stray Eleanor Burdett in the 1911 census.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=UBz2071&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=Louis&gsfn_x=NIC&gsln=Newmark&gsln_x=NP&msypn__ftp=28%20mapesbury%20road%20%20London%20NW&msydy=1911&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cpxt=1&cp=4&catbucket=r&MSAV=1&uidh=2q9&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=39806701&dbid=2352&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1
Why has Louis Newmark got an Eleanor Burdett as his daughter when his other children are all Newmarks? Her birth in 1900 does fit, but still?????? as does the number of children he acknowledges ( I think). Could this child be the one May Burdett stats is still living in the 1911 census?
OOOOO my head hurts
Carolyn
Carolyn
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Eleanor Burdett is not in Louis Newmark’s household.
She is next door. Parents not home. Likely a well-off family though as Eleanor is rattling round the 11-room house with a governess and other domestic staff.
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Born Eleanor Green Burdett in Kensington, 1899.
1901 aged 1 in Notting Hill with parents Joseph (a solicitor) and Lilian: RG13/31/157/35.
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Tee hee, certainly not my family then. Thanks for pointing this out to me.
Carolyn
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There is still the question of who the living child is that she claims in 1911..... and she doesn’t give birth in a time frame when the form was filled in. Another child to find?
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There is still the question of who the living child is that she claims in 1911..... and she doesn’t give birth in a time frame when the form was filled in. Another child to find?
Problem there is that as she is 30 in 1911 the child could have been born at any time between about 1896 and 1910. We don't know the gender or where born either, so probably quite a daunting task.
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Hence the sherry!