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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: valleygooner on Sunday 28 January 18 15:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi all. I am trying to find details of my grandmother's death. Her name is Hanora Sullivan and was married to John Moriarty. They lived in Broguemakers Tralee. Her final child was born on 2nd April 1918. By the end of April 1918 she was dead, I know this because my father and an older brother were put into St Joseph's industrial school at the very end of April that year and the record shows the mother as deceased. A small time frame but I can find no death record at all for her. Any ideas would be most appreciated. Thanks.
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Welcome to RootsChat.
What age would she have been when she died?
Did she ever use another name?
It's not unusual in Ireland for a person not to have a death cert.
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Probably used Hanora Moriarity.
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It's not unusual in Ireland for a person not to have a death cert.
Maybe it just wasn't registered.
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1911 she was 30
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Tralee_Urban__part_of_/Broguemaker_s/291540/
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Thanks for that. That would have made her about 37 when she died. My father and his brother went into St Joseph's by the end of April that year. We can't find any details of my father being in there other than he was confirmed just before his 14th birthday in St Josephs. I have records of his brother while in St Josephs. Anyway, many thanks for replying.
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Hanora is shown as Nora(h) on all the birth records available on line
(eight children between 1904 & 1916) LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=&namel=moriarty&type=B&ddBfrom=&mmBfrom=&yyBfrom=1904&ddBto=&mmBto=&yyBto=1918&locationB=Tralee&keywordb=sullivan&ddMfrom=&mmMfrom=&yyMfrom=&ddMto=&mmMto=&yyMto=&locationM=&keywordm=&ddDfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyDfrom=&ddDto=&mmDto=&yyDto=&locationD=&keywordd=&submit=Search)
although I don't see a death recorded as this also
Who was the informant on the birth record in 1918? and on what date was it registered?
This could help locate a record that may have been incorrectly registered, if at all
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@myluck
thanks for this info. I am going to search for a birth certificate for the last born boy Timothy Moriarty on 2 April 1918, baptised on 7 April 1918. You have been so helpful, thank you. Another thing, we have confirmation and part records of my father's older brother Patrick being in St Joseph's but only confirmation, no records, that my father was in there. On the paper work it says Patrick and my father were found wandering without adult supervision. The Christian Brothers confirm he was in there but can provide no records, saying they are lost, like wise the minister for education in Dublin. Are there other ways of getting that information?
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. On the paper work it says Patrick and my father were found wandering without adult supervision.
This is very likely why they were sent to St.Joseph's, simply playing ball on the street was sometimes enough reason to end up in an industrial school.
Just reread your first post, the mother was dead but it opens up the timing of when she died a bit.
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@myluck
thanks for this info. I am going to search for a birth certificate for the last born boy Timothy Moriarty on 2 April 1918, baptised on 7 April 1918. You have been so helpful, thank you. Another thing, we have confirmation and part records of my father's older brother Patrick being in St Joseph's but only confirmation, no records, that my father was in there. On the paper work it says Patrick and my father were found wandering without adult supervision. The Christian Brothers confirm he was in there but can provide no records, saying they are lost, like wise the minister for education in Dublin. Are there other ways of getting that information?
The 1918 births are not yet available on line
You could order his birth cert from the GRO; it is €4 for a photocopy of the register
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Hi sinan
Thanks for the reply. Yes, the time frame of her death is very small but really can't find any record of her death. Interestingly enough, I can't find a birth record for the last child Timothy Moriarty born 2nd of April 1918.
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As My Luck explained you won't find him on Irish Genealogy due to the 100 year data rule.
He's on the index on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?page=1&countryid=1927084&countryId=1927084
You have to sign up to that site now to see the results. (free)
Use the information from FamilySearch to order the cert using the form on Irish Genealogy
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
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The record Sinann is probably looking at is Civil Reference:
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1918; Tralee, Ireland
Volume Number 5; Page Number: 476
There is no maiden name shown but it is the only Timothy MORIARTY that year in Tralee
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Hi Sinann and Myluck. Thanks for your help, I didn't see re the 100 year rule regarding the births. Is it possible to find out if the rest of my father's siblings were put into care after their mother died? I am lead to believe that only Patrick and my father were put into St Josephs but I am wondering if more of the younger children also ended up in care. Thanks so much, you are so helpful.
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There is no rule around how families were split up and where they went after the death of a parent, especially a mother.
Girls and boys were often separated and usually when aged 7-8 or more.
Sometimes different family members took a child or two each, especially if they had no children of their own and a farm/business that needed help to run.
Also if a man remarried it was not unusual that the second wife would refuse to look after the children of the first marriage.
Different times.
Also if the family were poor Hanora would have had no possessions and a death certificate may not have been required for any legal purpose. If her death wasn't registered immediately they may have later seen no reason to.
Also I have come across where someone dies in a hospital/home and it is assumed by the family that the death was registered there and by the hospital that it was by the family. One as late as 1965 where there is a death notice in the newspaper but no civil death record.
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Myluck, thank you so much. It really is a mine field! Anyway, I'm going to concentrate on finding out about my father after he came out of St Josephs.
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Best of luck with your research
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Hi There,
Just wondering if you are still looking for information on this person?
I am currently looking into the same family - I have been told that Hanora died during childbirth of her youngest Son Timothy (my husbands grandfather). Timothy's daughter only knows that she died giving birth to her dad and that he was raised by the neighbours and the many older brothers and sisters were taken into care (they didn't take newborns) - I have found no record of her death or Timothy's birth but she also said the husband (John) remarried again to a woman named Margaret. Have you ever found other information on these? death/burial records??
Thanks.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
....I have been told that Hanora died during childbirth of her youngest Son Timothy (my husbands grandfather).
Birth of Timothy Moriarty on 2nd April 1918 at Brogue Lane, Tralee.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01276/1529338.pdf
The informant was Nora Moriarty (mother and making her mark) on 21st June 1918. So still alive in mid-June.
......but she also said the husband (John) remarried again to a woman named Margaret.
John Moriarty married Margaret Delaney on 6th September 1919 at St Johns RC Church, Tralee. He was a railway labourer and both were living at Brogue Lane, Tralee.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09254/5350304.pdf
Birth of son Jeremiah in 1920.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01196/1498138.pdf
KG
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Birth of Timothy Moriarty on 2nd April 1918 at Brogue Lane, Tralee.
Apart from Timothy (in 1918), three other children born after the 1911 census:
Julia Moriarty on 4th June 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01477/1601926.pdf
Michael Moriarty on 11th May 1914
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01407/1578833.pdf
Nora Christina Moriarty on 26th August 1916
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01324/1547231.pdf
KG
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Hi there
My father was Michael Moriarty, one of Timothy's older brothers. I am delighted to hear from you! I never knew Timothy survived and went on to have a family. Did he stay in Ireland or move away? I never found out much about the other siblings other than two of the sisters moved to London, my father used to visit them in Earls Court I think. Can you tell me some more about Timothy and his life? I have all birth details of the family, all of Timothy's siblings. Great to hear from you.