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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: BAC3 on Monday 29 January 18 16:07 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
John HANDFORD was born c1835, in Loughborough, the son of Joseph HANDFORD, a Framework Knitter, and his wife Ann. He had several brothers/sisters, Emma, Joseph, Thomas, Charles and Eliza.
I am trying to ascertain whether or not he married......his wife possibly Sarah (Ann?) BARKER. a widow with two children Charles and George (this is pure supposition!!). If so, the marriage could have taken place about 1872/1873 and would validate information in the 1881 England Census and following enumerations.
Can anyone help please.
BAC3
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Have you tried FreeBMD for other possibilities? I can't see any match for your suggestion.
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Birth for youngest daughter in 1881 gives mmn Barker so Sarah apparently not widowed unless she married a Barker :-\
HANDFORD, ELIZABETH ANN mmn BARKER
1877 June Quarter in LOUGHBOROUGH Volume 07A Page 140
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RG10 /3255 F4 p1
She is with John Handford calling herself Sarah Thompson - also children Charles Barker 10 & Edward Barker 6
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Thank You rosie99,
The 1870 Census is interesting........she is lodging with John HANFORD as a married woman with two children Charles and Edward. I assume Edward refers to George in the 1881 Census.
On the balance of probabilities Sarah THOMPSON married John HANDFORD between 1871 and 1881, or changed her name to HANDFORD and had three more children, whereas her maiden name was "BARKER". All very Victorian melodrama, but extremely inviting an exercise to resolve the complications.
BAC3
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Pure speculation but this could be Edward's birth reg
BARKER, EDWARD No mothers maiden name on index
1864 Dec Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 07A Page 172
There are a couple of birth reg's in Loughborough RD that would fit Charles also with no mmn.
I doubt that she ever married ::)
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;) Hi all, getting confused with the names of the Barker children eg in 1901 census:-
John Handford 64
Sarah 64
Richard Barker 34 Son in Law/Single
Emily Handford 19
Edith Barker 5 Grandaughter
RG13/2978/48/4
Edith looks to be born 1896 Loughborough mmn Wesley
Marriage possible Joseph Barker to Harriet Wesley Dec qtr 1895 Loughborough 7a 276
Keyboard86
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Thank you all for your help.
I think a picture is beginning to emerge though I need to cross and dot T's and I's carefully. The relationships appear extremely complex. However, eventually creating sufficient cohesion is always exciting. 8)
For the moment,
BAC3
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Hi again, the 1911 is worth a view for a 78 year old John Handford in Loughborough with Barker relations?
Keyboard86
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Hi again, the 1911 is worth a view for a 78 year old John Handford in Loughborough with Barker relations?
Keyboard86
Transcript image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X754-MGF
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Good Morning,
I think the family profile is complete LESS a few items, namely, first, Who was Sarah THOMPSON? and, second, When, or if, she married John HANDFORD?
In the grand scheme of things I suppose these details were incidental ::) ::)
BAC3
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This seems a likely marriage:
Leicester Mail 5 October 1867
Same place (Register Office, Loughborough) on the 29th ult, Mr Samuel Thompson to Sarah Ann Gilbert Barker, both of Loughborough.
Some other interesting snippets - GRO birth index (mmn blank on both):
BARKER, CHARLES WILLIAM 1860 M Quarter in LOUGHBOROUGH Volume 07A Page 117
BARKER, CHARLES WILLIAM 1862 J Quarter in LOUGHBOROUGH Volume 07A Page 127
Burial 1 Apr 1861 – Charles William, a bastard child of Sarah Ann Barker, Union Poor House (no baptism found)
Baptism 26 Mar 1862 Charles William illegitimate son of Sarah Ann Barker, Union House
Also the Leicester Journal 5 April 1861 DEATHS – On the 30th ult, Charles William, infant son of Sarah Ann Barker
Baptism 21 Jan 1866 Edward illegitimate son of Sarah Barker, Union Poor House, Aged 14 months
In 1866 Sarah Ann Barker was called as a witness in the case of Eliza Adkins, who was accused of murdering her 4 year old son by throwing him down a well. She claimed they were badly treated in the Loughborough workhouse, and as Sarah Ann was on the same ward she was called as a witness (she swore that no-one had ever been treated badly). At the time of the report (Feb 1866) Sarah Ann had been in the workhouse for 9 months.
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Jomot,
Excellent research, thank you very much. I had not considered using the newspapers for BDM in this case. A lesson to be learned no matter how experienced you think you are ???
Mr. HANDFORD's picture is becoming clearer all the time.
BAC3
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:) Agree, so what I have been puzzling is if Sarah Ann Gilbert Barker was b c 1837 Loughborough area, where was she 1841/61?
In 1861 census their is a female S B b c 1838 Single occ Factory Hand b Loughborough in Workhouse , Rushes, Loughborough
Census ref RG09/2276/34/37
Keyboard86
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I think I may have found her :)
10 Feb 1840 St Margaret, Leicester
John Gilbert Full Age Bachelor Joiner Waterloo Street. Father = William Gilbert, Victualler (?)
Elizabeth Barker Full Age Spinster Dressmaker Charles Street. Father = Joseph Barker, Builder
1841 Regent St, St Mary, Leicester
John Gilbert 25 Joiner J
Elizabeth Gilbert 25 Dressmaker
Sarah 3
Mary 1
GILBERT, MARY ELIZABETH mmn BARKER 1840 J Quarter LOUGHBOROUGH Volume 15 Page 146
GILBERT, LUCY JANE mmn BARKER 1841 S Quarter LEICESTER Volume 15 Page 122
GILBERT, JOHN THOMAS mmn BARKER 1845 J Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 15 Page 119
GILBERT, MARY ANNA mmn BARKER 1851 M Quarter in NUNEATON Volume 16 Page 528
1851 Derby Lane, Nuneaton – HO107/2065/17/11
John Gilbert 35 Engineer b Hungerstone? Leics
Elizabeth 35 b Loughborough
Sarah Ann 12 Loughborough
Mary Elizabeth 11 Loughborough
Lucy Jane 10 Leicester
John Thomas 6 Leicester
Mary Ann 3 months Nuneaton
By 1861 John Thomas is in Loughborough, although I haven’t looked for the others.
There is a female Barker birth with no forename & no mmn registered in Loughborough in the Jul-Sep quarter of 1838, Vol 15 Page 129 - could be Sarah Ann?
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It is truly amazing how much ingenuity PLUS tenacious research tend to produce exceptional results.
I can only say "Thank You"
However, there remains one tiny item yet to be resolved without sounding ungrateful. Did John HANDFORD ever marry Sarah Ann Gilbert THOMPSON ??? ???
BAC3
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I can't find any evidence that Sarah & John ever married.
It would seem that Samuel Thompson was also in & out of the Loughborough workhouse and was also a petty thief. According to records he was a stationary engine driver, born c 1843
1863 Leicester, Housebreaking - 3 months hard labour
1864 Staffordshire, stealing a watch - 8 months hard labour
1869 Leicester, stealing a pair of boots - 10 months hard labour
1871 Leicester, stealing 3 pairs of thread hose at Loughborough on 27 Mar 1871 - 12 months hard labour & 7 years police supervision
There is also a newspaper article about him absconding from Loughborough Workhouse in June 1870 and taking clothes with him belonging to the guardians - 2 months hard labour
I can't trace him with any certainty after this, but perhaps he was still alive and therefore Sarah Ann was not free to marry?
ADDED: The last definite record I can find is his release from Leicester prison (County) on 16 Oct 1872.
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Jomot,
Thank you for all your help.
The question of his marriage will have to remain a question, sadly, although I have sufficient information now to complete a fairly accurate and comprehensive narrative for him.
For the moment,
BAC3