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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: nenepops on Monday 29 January 18 22:28 GMT (UK)
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I have Duncan Rose in my family b1846 Banffshire. He was married to Jane McMillan 20 Nov1872 in Govan.
In 1881 they lived in Govan, he was a Police Constable.
I can't find his parents or anything about Jane McMillan.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi nenepops
This info should be on the 1872 marriage cert that you mention...
Monica :)
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I haven't got the marriage certificate. I found the marriage details online.
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The original image with full details on their parents' names is available to view on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Duncan gave his place of birth as Tomintoul in Banff. This is in the parish of Kirkmichael. There is this 1851 census entry that might fit for him:
Janet Cumming 34 general servant unmarried b. Tomintoul Kirkmichael, Banffshire
Betsy Ross 8 daughter b Kirkmichael, Banffshire
Duncan Ross 6 son b. Kirkmichael, Banffshire
Address: Main Street Krkmichael Tomintoul-Banffshire
Rose and Ross can be interchangeable.
Monica
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Thank you MonicaL.
So Janet could possibly be their mum? Strange in those days being not married..
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Betsey and Duncan Ross were in all probabilty illegitimate. There are transcripts of their baptisms on Freereg.
Betsey Ross born 10 Oct 1841, baptism 5 Dec 1841 Abode Tomintoul Father Donald Ross Mother Janet Cumming Natural child (this means Betsey was illegitimate).
Duncan Ross baptism 17 Oct 1844 Abode Tomintoul Father Donald Ross Mother Janet Cumming
The following is from a digest of the kirk session records for Kirkmichael. This is as transcribed
"Ron Donald 1841 Servant in Ruthven father of child by Janet Cumming".
Ron may be an incorrect transcription of Ross - there is a village called Ruthven in the parish of Cairnie, Aberdeenshire as well as a parish called Rathven in Banffshire.
The only way to see if these are your Duncan's parents is, as Monica has suggested, to download his marriage cert.from Scotland's People.
William
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Thank you Millmoor. I will look into downloading the certificate.
So would you suggest that Ross would be Rose?
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Adding this as it may be relevant once the marriage details are confirmed -
1841 Census(FreeCEN)
Ruthven , Kirkmichael , Banffshire
Donald Ross 20 agricultural labourer born Banffshire
ev
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Thanks ev.
So do you think I need to look at Ross now instead of Rose? It's so confusing!!
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Look for Ros* so that both come up. Names weren't set in stone those days so your Duncan could appear under either depending on how the person who wrote the entry spelled the name.
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Thank you J11. It's just so difficult where their names are slightly different. I will try and have a look😳
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Hi
As Monica has said,The original image with full details on their parents' names is available to view on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
The marriage index on SP is fairly clear~
Rose, Duncan and McMillan, Jane 1872, Ref 646/1 269 , Govan and Govan Church
This will give you names of both parents and will cost 6 credits.
See request on Ayrshire http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786875.0
Gadget
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6 spare credits - Will post a copy of the marriage cert here and on your other thread. Hope it helps.
Sandra
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Wow that's very kind of you, thank you so very much. It really is much appreciated.
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To Sandra,
Do you think his parents are Duncan Rose and maybe Bessie?
And hers, William Mcmillan and Mary?
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His parents are Donald Rose and Jessie (a variant of Janet) Cumming. Hers look like William McMillan and Mary McLaren.
Ruth
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To Sandra,
Do you think his parents are Duncan Rose and maybe Bessie?
And hers, William Mcmillan and Mary?
Looks like Donald (deceased) and Jessie - maiden surname Cumming (deceased)
and William McMillan and Mary - maiden surname Mclaren (deceased)
Sandra
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The father could have remarried by the 1861 Scotland Census. This group looked interesting ???
High Street Irvine Ayrshire 1861 ???
William McMellan 35
Ann Mark McMellan 20
Jane McMellan 5
Mary McMellan 3
Ann McMellan 2
Elizabeth McMellan 9 Months.
Births of the last 3 children -
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lg4/
Sandra
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Re Duncan - his parents were Donald Ros(e) and Jessie Cumming, both deceased. Jessie is a pet name for Janet. Therefore the 1851 census found by Monica is looking very likely to be correct as is the baptism in my earlier post.
There is no evidence that Donald and Jessie (Janet) ever married - writing a maiden name on a marriage cert. can help to "hide" illegitimacy. It might be worth obtaining Duncan's death cert. to see what information that has.
I have looked for further information about Jessie/ Janet Cumming and and can see nothing beyond the 1851 census.
This may be her in the 1841 census in Tomintoul but because relationships are not given in 1841 cannot be sure.
West side of village
Widow Cumming 70 ind
Donald Cumming 35
Jannet Cumming 25
Two further references from the Kirkmichael Kirk Session Records state
1841 Janet Cumming " In Tomintoul with child by Donald Ron, Ruthven". I am now even more convinced that Ron is an incorrect transcription of Ross.
1844 A Janet Cumming is on te poor list.
William
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The original image with full details on their parents' names is available to view on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Duncan gave his place of birth as Tomintoul in Banff. This is in the parish of Kirkmichael. There is this 1851 census entry that might fit for him:
Janet Cumming 34 general servant unmarried b. Tomintoul Kirkmichael, Banffshire
Betsy Ross 8 daughter b Kirkmichael, Banffshire
Duncan Ross 6 son b. Kirkmichael, Banffshire
Address: Main Street Krkmichael Tomintoul-Banffshire
Rose and Ross can be interchangeable.
Monica
Looks like Monica found the mother of Donald Ross earlier ;D
Sandra
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Oops sorry - see these were posted earlier in the thread - just catching up on it all.
Betsey Ross - born 10 October 1841 baptised 5 December 1841 - Kirkmichael. Banff Scotland. Parents Janet Cummings and Donald Ross.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XB38-NXX
Duncan Ross - born 5 January 1844 baptised 17 October 1844 -
parents Donald Ross and Janet Cummings.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lg5/
Sandra
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I suspect, Sandra, that Betsey is the child referred to in the Kirk Session Records. As with her mother I cannot see anything for her beyond 1851.
Mind you I do not have a certain sighting of Duncan after 1851 in the census until 1881!
William
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Fantastic, so much appreciated for all your help.🙏🏻
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I thought this might be Donald in 1861:
Donald Ross, 15, cattle man, servant b Kirkmichael Banff
Working in the McGrigor (farmer) household at Torranbuie, Strathdon, Aberdeenshire
Monica
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So Janet could possibly be their mum? Strange in those days being not married..
Not really. IIRC, according to T C Smout's A Century of the Scottish People the authorities were horrified to discover, after the first year of statutory civil registration in 1855, that 19% (nearly one in five) births in Banffshire were illegitimate. The illegitimacy rate varied dramatically between counties. IIRC it was only 2% in Ross and Cromarty.
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Sorry to come to the thread a bit late. I have been researching the Rose aka Ross (used interchangeably) family in Tomintoul. I think there is a link starting (going back in years) with John McDonald (aka Ross/Rose) b.1890 born illegitimate to Barbara Rose b.1872 born illegitimate to Elspet (aka Elsie) b.1843. I believe Elsie’s mother was Elizabeth Cumming b.1800 & her father John Rose/Ross b.1807. That's as far as I've got in my searches so far.
I also have seen that there is a place ? farm called Ruthven about a mile to the north of Tomintoul - could that be the Rathven/Ruthven mentioned previously in this thread?
Cheers
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Attached map of 1875 showing Ruthven
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The following is from a digest of the kirk session records for Kirkmichael. This is as transcribed
"Ron Donald 1841 Servant in Ruthven father of child by Janet Cumming".
Ron may be an incorrect transcription of Ross - there is a village called Ruthven in the parish of Cairnie, Aberdeenshire as well as a parish called Rathven in Banffshire.
There are umpteen Ruthvens in Scotland, including the village in the parish of Cairnie, and there is one Rathven.
When a place is mentioned in an old parish register, it is almost invariably a place in the same parish. If it is a different parish, the records will say so.
Therefore this Ruthven will be the one in http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ1521 because it is in the parish of Kirkmichael, Banffshire.
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Sent in error
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Do you know much about the Rose/Ross family?