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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: coombs on Friday 02 February 18 21:31 GMT (UK)
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We have had one for missing burials but lets have one for missing births and marriages. Several reasons for missing burials can also apply to missing births/baptisms/marriages such as name change, emigration, false info, missing records etc.
In regards to missing marriages it could be (other than missing records, false info, name change)
They married in a parish that has no online records, and no one has checked yet.
They never actually married.
Army marriages/marriage abroad.
They married by licence and the records are not yet online for the archdeaconry/diocese etc. It took me ages to find a Bucks marriage but when FindMyPast released more records last year including licenses, i found the marriage in the Buckingham licences. So there is hope.
Missing baptisms pre 1837 (or 1855 Scotland, 1864 for Ireland, or even further afield).
Birth not registered.
Birth registered under a different name, unmarried mother.
Never baptised.
Baptised but the vicar never added it to the register.
Baptised in the workhouse.
Born abroad (father in army or temporarily emigrated for a job etc)
Probably many more reasons.
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I am wondering if the missing marriage that I wished to find is due to the fact that the vicar of the day used the page it was on to light his pipe!
Apparently he used pages from the church records to light his pipe. The year I was looking for was 1796. The husband died before the 1841 census so I don't know if he was born in county or out.
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Missing marriages still happen...
I know of one recent marriage in the 2000's that is not in the index because the vicar was too late getting his returns back to the reg office.
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Ancestors of mine were in court for stealing a page from the parish records for murky reasons. I don't know if the page was returned.
Liz
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Some church registers are badly damaged by damp, mould, rats etc. Page edges or corners crumbled away.
I expect my Joseph Johnson used to be on one of those pages.
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elopement.. sometimes family did not approve of choice of partner and couple eloped.
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I have ancestors from Toppesfield, Essex. I think the original registers have been damaged by damp. However I think a transcript was made before they were damaged by the damp. I think the dampness damage was about 1910/1920 and they made a transcript about 1905.
Yes they could have eloped, and married far away from where they lived. Maybe the groom had to fend off the bride's over protective brother or father lol.
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If you are missing some Cornish records:
Extract from the Royal Cornwall Gazette 16 April 1891
"PORTSCATHO
We very much regret to hear that Captain Thomas Peters has not been heard of since the snowstorm blizzard which visited our shores about six weeks since. His ship, the Rose, was last seen off the Longships in the gale but as she has not reached port it is believed she must have foundered with all hands. Captain Peters was much beloved by all he came in contact with for his kindness and genial disposition and his loss will be much felt at Portscatho."
The loss of the Chapel registers is also much felt - he was the Secretary of the Portscatho Independent Chapel and took the Chapel registers to sea with him for safe-keeping. :o >:( ???
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Incomplete info in record such as "A son of John Smith" or "Twins of Joseph Tiffin". I have a Susan Tiffin who wed in 1759 in Wethersfield to Andrew Page. Witnesses seemed to be regular ones in typical fashion. I think she was the daughter of Joseph and Sarah Tiffin who wed in 1731. The 1736 baptism says "twins of Joseph Tiffin". Susan had a daughter Sarah in 1765.
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I have ancestors from Toppesfield, Essex. I think the original registers have been damaged by damp. However I think a transcript was made before they were damaged by the damp. I think the dampness damage was about 1910/1920 and they made a transcript about 1905.
I too have been the beneficiary of foresight in the Edwardian era. Transcribers can only deal with the images in front of them. When the originals have suffered damage, it is too late. I know of registers where the transcribers for the IGI have just skipped over the "difficult" entries.
When I went to the archives in Whitehaven to confirm an IGI entry for a baptism at St. Bees, the microfilm image looked like a photo of crinkly black leather.
Luckily, a transcript had been made in the early 1900s, and with that in front of me, I could just decode the entry, which was in the best part of the image.
I often wonder whether such film images would be easier to read if colour film had been used, or if illumination in a particular wavelength would help. The Manchester 1851 water-damaged sheets have certainly benefitted from such treatment.
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Also Bishops Transcripts can be a safety net to fall back on. The Toppesfield transcripts were not a Bishops ones as far as I know, just a general transcript. So I was lucky. The originals have been badly damaged but I could see on the small undamaged parts writing saying "...hter of Joshua Wyatt".
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Willisham in Suffolk was the birthplace od a 3 x ggmother, finding her parents (surname Brown) is a complete dead end as all the parish registers for Willisham, 1558-1934 (except marriages from 1838-1933) were destroyed by fire at Willisham Hall in 1934. Bishop's transcripts for the period 1825-1831 have also survived.
It appears the the various incumbents had never sent any BT's off to the their 'boss'
Edward
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Baptists! I was brought up in a baptist family, as was my mother & her father. His family hailed from Wales, where they seem to have dabbled in various denominations before settling on baptist.
My mother & grandfather were both baptised as adults and I know which churches they attended, but there are no online records for either, although the local archives has the members register. I chose not to be baptised so was never a member, although there may be a record of my dedication service somewhere and the archives also has the Sunday School records, so I may get a mention there - I really should look :)
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Knock me down with a feather. Seems another missing marriage has turned up. For ages (some years) I have tried to find the marriage of Hugh Wyatt to Rachel. They wed about 1745. All I knew.
I just typed into SEAX under Wiatt and found an index entry to the marriage licence allegation of Hugh Wiatt to Rachel Surridge.
There is always some hope. Missing marriages can turn up in marriage licences/bonds etc.
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My Great, Great Grandparents from Ireland first identified on record in England in 1879 with birth of first child. No marriage record in Ireland, England or anywhere else. Probably left Ireland because they were unmarried with a child on the way.
Blue
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I just typed into SEAX under Wiatt and found an index entry to the marriage licence allegation of Hugh Wiatt to Rachel Surridge.
The allegation is on FamilySearch.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YS26-3Y7?i=854&cat=279884
Says they are to be married at Steeple Bumpstead, but they don't seem to show up on Boyd's Marriage Index.
Also written on that allegation, (in May 1746 ?) a request "please to send a fresh licence"
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I just typed into SEAX under Wiatt and found an index entry to the marriage licence allegation of Hugh Wiatt to Rachel Surridge.
The allegation is on FamilySearch.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YS26-3Y7?i=854&cat=279884
Says they are to be married at Steeple Bumpstead, but they don't seem to show up on Boyd's Marriage Index.
Also written on that allegation, (in May 1746 ?) a request "please to send a fresh licence"
Thanks so much for this Jonw. Much appreciated.
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On my OH's side, there are a lot of RC marriages and birth records I've not managed to find, in Lancashire. I simply give up now, when they "confess" on a woolly census record to having come from Ireland, I simply can't cope!!
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My How Wyatt and Rachel Surrage could have been one of those cases where there was a licence but no marriage took place. Same for banns but no marriage. These can be safety nets if you cannot find the marriage but you can find a banns/licence.
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I simply give up now, when they "confess" on a woolly census record to having come from Ireland, I simply can't cope!!
I really do sympathise
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Jonw you certainly did open up my eyes to new records online that I did not know existed. Of course some of them are available to everyone and some are only for LDS members or a FH centres but plenty of stuff that is available to any FamilySearch user.
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Hi
Yes, there's all sorts of things hidden away on there. As you say, we can't see it all at home. But it's always worth checking the catalogue and seeing what's available.
John
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Thanks jonw I hadn't realised that Familysearch had copies of those marriage licences. I've been somewhat amazed at what they have had as hadn't realised in the past in spite of hiring in films to a local FHC for some years. Just a bit disappointed that some I've found they had I didn't know about previously because I could have ordered them in prior to the film ordering cut off last September. A number have yet to be digitised and some unfortunately although digitised (they have a DGS number) have yet to be uploaded. Keeping fingers crossed they appear some time soon. The FHC I use involves a 35 mile round trip but well worth it. ;D
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On my OH's side, there are a lot of RC marriages and birth records I've not managed to find, in Lancashire. I simply give up now, when they "confess" on a woolly census record to having come from Ireland, I simply can't cope!!
My mother's side of the family is full of dead ends where ancestors simply come from "Ireland" with the most common sounding name imaginable. William Robertson and John Adamson to name a couple, and they are in-laws!
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I can sympathise with those with Irish ancestors. Many records are lost forever and what is out there is a fraction of them that has survived. I say civil reg, which begun in 1864 is the best full surviving source for Irish research. Many Irish people left Ireland before 1864 though.
If your ancestor was James Murphy born c1820, Ireland, living in England 1851 onwards, finding his baptism in Ireland would be like finding a needle in a haystack. You may be lucky to get a fathers name if he wed in England but that is about it.
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It's good to know that I'm not alone ... mine seem to appear suddenly, usually with wives, but totally tight-lipped about where they came from, and of course that means no nice handy marriage records to pin fathers' names, occupations etc., down by. I wouldn't mind if it was only one little line, but the wretches KEEP DOING IT!!! Five lines at last check.
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I think the Commissary Court of London marriage licences are still yet to be uploaded to FamilySearch. Many of my Essex ancestors chose that court to have their licence.
I hope we get more Devon marriage licences online soon as I am after an 1810 licence for a marriage. The couple could be the correct marriage and the licence could give their ages. I did manage to get a copy of the original marriage register when I asked Devon RO for a lookup but the bride was a widow. It was only when I got the copy of the record that I found they wed by licence and I have not asked them yet for the licence record. If she is the same one, she'd have only been about 19 or 20 at the time. Possible she was a very young widow.
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Also a missing birth could be they were baptised under an unmarried mother's name, she married soon after (to the father or to another man) and the baby was given their stepfather/real father's name.