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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cavan => Topic started by: Magh Itha on Saturday 03 February 18 11:57 GMT (UK)
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Susan Flynn was born on 31st January 1885 her parents being William Flynn (a Tailor?) and Mary Anne Smith. In November 1905 at 20 years of age she married Stephen Flood a 62 year old Widower who was a merchant in Cavan.
I am unable to make out the Townland where she was born.
Any information on this family and any help would be appreciated.
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A Link to what you are talking about would help please.
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Hello,
There seems to have been an earlier birth for a child Susan - townland for birth shown plus address of father College Street Cavan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02722/2001439.pdf
This shows Curlurgan, parish of Annagelliffe.
Here is Corlurgan https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/loughtee-upper/annagelliff/moynehall/corlurgan/
And here is the 1885 birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02656/1979256.pdf
Heywood
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Confusing though
There are two deaths in 1886
Mary Ann Flynn 32 yrs wife of William, a Tailor
Susan Flynn 1 yr child of William, a Tailor
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06240/4786224.pdf
Address possibly Breffni :-\
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Confusing though
There are two deaths in 1886
Mary Ann Flynn 32 yrs wife of William, a Tailor
Susan Flynn 1 yr child of William, a Tailor
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06240/4786224.pdf
Address possibly Breffni :-\
Without a Link to whatever others are supposed to be looking at, there might be 2 Susans, there is a Breffni Terrace in Cavan Town but maybe it is something in a townland somewhere.
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Hallmark,
I have altered previous post - I had linked to death of William- now removed.
The 1883 birth is here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02722/2001439.pdf
Townland as previously mentioned but father’s address is College Street
John Joseph Flynn born 1881 same parents - College Street
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02803/2028709.pdf
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Hallmark,
I have altered previous post - I had linked to death of William- now removed.
The 1883 birth is here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02722/2001439.pdf
Townland as previously mentioned but father’s address is College Street
John Joseph Flynn born 1881 same parents - College Street
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02803/2028709.pdf
Curlurgan...
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Thank You both. I am helping someone who is seeking their Parentage.
It seems that the Susan born in 1885 died in 1886.
But they would hardly call the 1885 child the same name as the 1883 child.
Yet could there have been two William's married to a Mary Anne with the same surname?
What a sad tale.
Am utterly lost at minute.
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Susan Flynn was born on 31st January 1885 her parents being William Flynn (a Tailor?) and Mary Anne Smith. In November 1905 at 20 years of age she married Stephen Flood a 62 year old Widower who was a merchant in Cavan.
I am unable to make out the Townland where she was born.
Any information on this family and any help would be appreciated.
The marriage record shows ‘of full age’ not 20yrs of age.
Do you have Susan in 1901 and 1911?
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Thank You both. I am helping someone who is seeking their Parentage.
Did Susan and Stephen Flood have children?
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Thank You both. I am helping someone who is seeking their Parentage.
It seems that the Susan born in 1885 died in 1886.
But they would hardly call the 1885 child the same name as the 1883 child. Yes!!
Yet could there have been two William's married to a Mary Anne with the same surname? Yes
What a sad tale.
Am utterly lost at minute.
Am utterly lost at minute too.....
Curlurgan... Birth is wrong date!!!
Can you post Links to what you are looking at??
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Is there an illegitimate birth involved and perhaps Susan Flynn is just a possibility as mother?
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Susan Flynn was born on 31st January 1885 her parents being William Flynn (a Tailor?) and Mary Anne Smith. Here is the Link to it
In November 1905 at 20 years of age she married Stephen Flood a 62 year old Widower who was a merchant in Cavan. Here is the Link to it
I am unable to make out the Townland where she was born. Here is the Link to it
Then we will all know we are looking at same stuff!!
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Hallmark,
You always ask for links and I put the links in reply #2 and now you seem quite cross and have posted them in red.
There are two births - 1883 and 1885 both with the same parents and places. I explained that earlier.
I am sure that you and I and Magh Itha have looked at the ‘same stuff’. :)
Heywood
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Hallmark,
You always ask for links and I put the links in reply #2 and now you seem quite cross and have posted them in red.
There are two births - 1883 and 1885 both with the same parents and places. I explained that earlier.
I am sure that you and I and Magh Itha have looked at the ‘same stuff’. :)
Heywood
Not cross!! ;D
Breffni Terrace is the address (on Birth Cert!) being queried!
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Stephen Flood ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Cavan/Half_Acre_Street/1063265/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Cavan_Urban/Mill/339902/
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Stephen Flood ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Cavan/Half_Acre_Street/1063265/
Can't be him as In November 1905 at 20 years of age she married Stephen Flood a 62 year old Widower who was a merchant in Cavan.
He's only 30.
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Here is Stephen’s death - married but death reported by Mary J Kelly, daughter.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05310/4476995.pdf
I have not found Susan Flynn in 1901 nor Susan Flood in 1911.
As this is an enquiry concerning ‘parentage’ i wonder, as I wrote earlier, if this is more a process of eliminating possibilities from a search :-\
As a note of explanation, I had seen a child, presumably illegitimate, to a Flynn mother but I might be reading far too much into this so won’t go there until Magh Itha comes back.
Heywood :)
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I have not found Susan Flynn in 1901
Heywood :)
I think this is Wm in 1911 with 5 children, 5 alive.....
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Cavan_Urban/Mill/339910/
Apologies if it has been posted before!
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Hallmark 30yr old Stephen Flood in 1901 has a daughter age 33
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Thank you again for the assistance.
We all have our own way of doing things. However the point as to links is well made.
I spent four hours last night with a man who is not computer literate. He was illegitimate and reared in a Home where he was not treated very well. Most of the information which he was given about himself was not correct. He subsequently discovered that he had half siblings.
His Mother was Mary Anne Flood a child of Stephen Flood and Susan Flynn.
I cannot explain why she was reared by a different family in Derry:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002839464/
A possible explanation on the two families:
William and Mary Anne of Breffni Terrace
Mary Anne the Mother and Susan the child died in 1886 and are not those whom I am seeking.
William and Mary Anne of College Street
John Joseph born in 1881, Susan born in 1883 and it was she who married Stephen Flood.
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Thank you again for the assistance.
We all have our own way of doing things. However the point as to links is well made.
I spent four hours last night with a man who is not computer literate. He was illegitimate and reared in a Home where he was not treated very well. Most of the information which he was given about himself was not correct. He subsequently discovered that he had half siblings.
His Mother was Mary Anne Flood a child of Stephen Flood and Susan Flynn.
I cannot explain why she was reared by a different family in Derry:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002839464/
A possible explanation on the two families:
William and Mary Anne of Breffni Terrace
Mary Anne the Mother and Susan the child died in 1886 and are not those whom I am seeking.
William and Mary Anne of College Street
John Joseph born in 1881, Susan born in 1883 and it was she who married Stephen Flood.
So...you are happy that there are 2 different families!
Do you know where Susan was in 1911? She doesn't seem to be on Census.
The Child is described as Niece on Census.... Is this correct??
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Hallmark 30yr old Stephen Flood in 1901 has a daughter age 33
Looking at the original census page Stephen's age might be a poorly written 50 rather than 30.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000453034/
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Have you seen this possible mistranscription on Family Search Historical Records
Ella Flood born 1st May 1907 Manhattan,New York
Father Mephan Flood age 60 born Ireland
Mother Susan Flynn age 22 born Ireland
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A possible explanation on the two families:
William and Mary Anne of Breffni Terrace
Mary Anne the Mother and Susan the child died in 1886 and are not those whom I am seeking.
William and Mary Anne of College Street
John Joseph born in 1881, Susan born in 1883 and it was she who married Stephen Flood.
I am not convinced that these are two different families. I don’t know why both children are called Susan but:
they are both daughters of William Flynn and MaryAnn Smith.
William is a Tailor in all records.
1881 College Street. (John Joseph)
1883 place of birth Curlurgan father’s address College Street (Susan)
1885 place of birth Curlurgan father’s address Breffni (Susan)
1886 deaths of Mary Ann and Susan address Breffni
I can’t see a civil record for the marriage of William Flynn and Mary Ann Smith. I was hoping for addresses.
Here is the very feint parish record which offers little help - 1878 number 227
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634811#page/52/mode/1up
1890 place of birth College Street son Patrick mother Ann Brady
I can’t see a Flynn /Brady marriage.
I accept that there is a different address but I wonder if one was a shop or something whilst the other was home :-\
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Have you seen this possible mistranscription on Family Search Historical Records
Ella Flood born 1st May 1907 Manhattan,New York
Father Mephan Flood age 60 born Ireland
Mother Susan Flynn age 22 born Ireland
Susan Flood 22yrs and Ellen Flood 3 wks arrived in Liverpool from NY 19th May 1907 on the Umbria.
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It appears that Susan Flynn gave birth to her child in New York brought her home, left her with a family in Derry.
The child was renamed Mary Anne after the woman who reared her, unlikely there was any blood relationship.
The elderly "father" taking no part with respect to the child.
Susan Flynn going back to New York and working as a servant in 1920.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRF4-2SW?i=26&wc=QZJT-F1Q%3A1036473601%2C1039156701%2C1040149601%2C1589340410%3Fcc%3D1488411&cc=1488411
Why was the child not brought back to the family in Cavan?
It is an open question as to whether there were two such families in Cavan.
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Does your friend know that Susan returned to NY?
Do you have immigration records for her?
Susan Flynn in 1920 census is a married woman but not Flood.
The census information shows that her year of immigration was 1899 and she was naturalised in 1916, I think.
She would have to return to Cavan to marry and then go back to have her child.
All this is possible but you would need further evidence to be sure.
It does seem a very sad situation. In 1901, her brother John was with a Smyth family - perhaps relatives and in 1911 was married so there were relatives around if Mr Flood and family did not want to support her.
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Things aren't just adding up here and I think some of the details found aren't quite accurate which is adding to the confusion.
Ella Flood 'born 1 May 1907' registered as born in Manhattan-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WHB-921
Susan Flynn (housewife, age 22) and infant Ellen (aged 3 weeks? months?) arrived in Queenstown, Ireland on 19 May 1907 from N.Y. according to the passenger list.
In Oct.1928 a Susan Flood, age 28, waitress went to N.Y. giving her U.K address as Redhills P.O. Co Cavan (last residence U.S.A.).
However, there's a death of a Susan Flood, age 40, died 1923 in Cavan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1923/05044/4380582.pdf
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Just to add to my last post,
John Flynn was living just a few houses away from his father William in 1911 and also Stephen Flood.
It just makes it very sad.
Apologies re Susan and Ellen’s return. I mistakenly wrote Liverpool ::)
As aghadowey points out it was Queenstown.
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Things aren't just adding up here and I think some of the details found aren't quite accurate which is adding to the confusion.
Ella Flood 'born 1 May 1907' registered as born in Manhattan-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WHB-921
Susan Flynn (housewife, age 22) and infant Ellen (aged 3 weeks? months?) arrived in Queenstown, Ireland on 19 May 1907 from N.Y. according to the passenger list.
In Oct.1928 a Susan Flood, age 28, waitress went to N.Y. giving her U.K address as Redhills P.O. Co Cavan (last residence U.S.A.).
However, there's a death of a Susan Flood, age 40, died 1923 in Cavan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1923/05044/4380582.pdf
Re October 1928 - possibility here - Susana Flood Drumavaddy, Redhill
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Redhill/Drumavaddy/320706/
The death in 1923 is Susan Flood, Spinster
1911 shows a Susan Flood, 28 yrs in Drumcarn - maybe :-\
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Drumcarn/Drumcarn/344561/
There is also a death in 1911 for Susan Flood, wife of a labourer, ‘of Derry’ who died in hospital aged 23 yrs but can’t see her in 1911.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05396/4506724.pdf
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Cannot get in contact with the person I am helping at minute.
Same across death of a William Flynn 63 years a tailor in Cavan in 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1922/05063/4387569.pdf
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https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1922/05063/4387569.pdf
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;D ;D you corrected the link while I posted it!
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I have now spoken to B and he tells me that his mother told him that she was born in America and brought home. He did not believe her as he felt that he has been told lies all his life.
He says he is now on Cloud 9 and very happy.
He also said that he was told that her father was killed in a motor accident and that her parents were buried in a graveyard in Cavan where the grave could be seen from walking along the road.
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That is so good that he has some confirmed news of his mother’s early life. :)
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This may or may not be the correct Susan but one never knows :)
Derry Journal, 5 Feb.1909: LAUNDRESS SEEKS COMPENSATION
Judge Overend, an application was heard requesting an airbitration under the Workmen’s Compensation Act, 1906, between Mrs. Susan Flood, 18, Roseville Street, and Samuel Nesbitt, proprietor Imperial Hotel, Derry, to determine the amount of compensation payable...
Northern Whig, 5 Feb.1909: Susan Flood, who had been employed in the Imperial Hotel as laundress and pantry-maid, applied to be awarded compensation against Mr Samuel Nesbitt...
If this is her, Susan went to New York and had daughter in 1907 then came to Derry with the child perhaps this accident[?] meant she wasn't able to look after a small child, thus the child appearing in another household in 1911?
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Forgot to post following re: Susan's birth-
William Flynn & Mary Anne Smith had 2 daughters registered as Susan- one in 1883 and other in 1885 (who died 1886). Susan Flynn's marriage gives her as 'full age' so it's possible she is the first Susan born 1883. I've come across this same sort of thing before so it's possible in this case also.
Susan Flynn (1883 Corlurgan) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02722/2001439.pdf
Susan Flynn (31 Jan.1885 Corlurgan-11 Apr.1886 Breffni) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02656/1979256.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06240/4786224.pdf
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The articles are interesting aghadowey.
I posted earlier re a 1911 death for a Susan Flood, Derry but couldn’t find a census entry or marriage for her. It may be the one from the articles.
I also did a lengthy post re the Susan births and the deaths of mother and child, all linked to records, but Magh Itha wonders if they are not the same family - I lean towards them being for the same explanations you give.
I wonder if the child, Ellen/Mary Ann was not Mr Flood's child. It presumably would never be proven but something seems to have gone very wrong with the families. Perhaps both families shunned her.
If I recall, and I think I posted this, William Flynn (with second wife), his son, John- Susan's brother and the Flood family were all living in close proximity to each other in 1911, after the birth of the baby.
I was looking at a birth for a child of William and Ann Brady Flynn and Stephen Flood’s daughter was the informant. This was before the Stephen/Susan marriage so there were links which were apparently very much broken.
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It does seem strange...
William Flynn & Mary Anne Smith had 2 daughters registered as Susan- one in 1883 and other in 1885 who died.
So 2 year old Susan Flynn born 1883 had a sister Susan born 1885....
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It does seem sort of mixed up but have seen this sort of thing before. It may be that the 1883 daughter was registered as Susan but the decided to call her something else, daughter born in 1885 registered (and called) Susan then dies in 1886 but parents wanted to keep name so they went back to calling 1883 one Susan.
Re: 1909 newspaper articles
The full articles may, or may not, shed more light on 'Mrs. Susan Flood' but I can only see partial extract as posted.
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appears to be samuel nesbitt and martha jane alexander
late of metropole cork and imperial bishop st
see hotel proprieters
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/derry/directories/business/1910/londonde12gms.txt
marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10395/5785028.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/North_East_Ward/Balmoral_Terrace/1101556/
sorry my caps lock not working
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This is evidence in court case:
Susan Flood stated that last October she was employed in the Imperial Hotel as laundress and pantry maid at £1 month and board and lodging, which would cost about 7s a week. On the 13th of the month she was going up a ladder with about nine steps with a small bath in order to get some clothes in the loft. When she got to the last but one the rung broke. Her leg slipped through, not being able to balance herself she fell her leg was scratched with a nail, and her ears bled. She only stayed a week and a day after the accident in the hotel, she was getting worse. Her back was sore and her head very dizzy.
This does not get us any further.
Thank you all for your continuing efforts
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Thanks Magh Itha.
As you say it doesn’t help with the mystery.
May I just ask if your friend knows definitely that Mary Ann in the census is definitely the daughter of Susan Flynn Flood of Cavan.
Presumably, the knowledge was passed on?
I don’t doubt the information at all but just want to make sure that we are searching the right people.
Thanks
Heywood
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Am seeking to make contact.
However I have a baptismal certificate from October 1953 based upon a statement from "Mary Ann Flood" that her parents were Stephen Flood and Susan Flynn and that document is most likely the source for B. He feels that he has been told lies all his life so he lacks confidence as to what is correct.
It is a fact that she maintained a sibling relationship with the other Doherty children listed in the 1911 census during her lifetime.
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Well that seems to fit. How sad.
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That seems to be good evidence - giving names which we know married etc.
As I said earlier, I wondered if the child was not Stephen’s which resulted in Susan being shunned by her own and the Flood family :-\
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Why would a girl around 20 years marry a man around 60 years, there must be a story there.
The marriage was in 1905 and the child was born in 1907. So clearly it was not as a consequence of that child. Might there have been an earlier miscarriage?
A man in his 60's can clearly beget a child but it is uncommon. It has occurred to me that the child born in 1907 was not his child and that that could be an explanation as to why the child was given away.
We just do not know yet.
The child born in 1907 went on to have four children all out of wedlock, three of whom were given away and knew nothing about her. What I have been told about her to date is very negative.
B whom I am seeking to help had a most difficult early life and it serves no purpose to consider the detail of such.
At 70 years he is happily married with children and grandchildren, but living with an emptiness as to his background. Some solid information as to his family history means a great deal to him.
I came on board because he tested as part of a DNA Project that I administer.
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The Birth Registration
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Well, father's name clearly Stephen Flood (as we thought) but wonder if address listed for mother would help trace any family of hers there?