RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Seany on Monday 05 February 18 23:42 GMT (UK)
-
This family relates to my Prussian and Irish ancestors who raised their family in Victoria, Australia and for some reason all migrated out to New Zealand. It overlaps with some other threads I’ve been in. The Parents were Herman Julius Schauer and Annie Clark, who married in Victoria and had a big family.
1872. Herman Julius Schauer
1874. Carl Albert Schauer “Charlie”
1876. Annie Catherine Schauer
1877. Frederick William Schauer
1879. Marie Elizabeth Schauer (My line)
1881. Auguste Fredericka Schauer
1885. Gustave Rudalph Schauer
From what I can tell. Their daughter Auguste died as a child and father Herman died in 1888.
His wife Annie remarried to a John Davey in 1890 and have a one child, although it has the father on the cert as Julius, when he’d been dead for years and Annie already remarried.
1894 Maria Elizabeth Schauer
Not sure what happened to John Davey. The next time I spot any of them, they are in New Zealand appearing on Papers pleasem working in hotels, getting elected, fighting in the First World War. Getting married, having kids, ect. I always wondered what became of Annie’s youngest daughter to John, and how the Schauer family made it out to New Zealand. It was only chance that I found Annie Davey living with her daughter Marie Elizabeth Fox an Annie Catherine Webb in the same hotel. 1919.
So far I’ve found a man named Mr Schauer (single, laborour) leaving Melbourne for Wellington 23 Aug 1907 on the Wimmera. He was 36, which makes him born 1871. I think this is the Eldest, Herman Julius.
The Schauer family must have been out there earlier though, since Marie married in 1904 and Annie 1907. Annie and Marriage marriage certs appear under the name Schaner. Took me a long time to break through from Schaner to Schauer. Amazing luck I broke through with wildcards in the Vic BDM.
The earliest marriage is between Carl Schauer and his wife Ellen Goodwin in 1901.
Frederick seemed like the only one who stayed in Victoria.
-
This family relates to my Prussian and Irish ancestors who raised their family in Victoria, Australia and for some reason all migrated out to New Zealand. It overlaps with some other threads I’ve been in.
Can you supply links to these "other threads" please ?
-
Lucy2, You'r everywhere :)
Father's relatives:
The Fox family.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=541167.msg6421188#msg6421188
I'm attempting to merge my relative Alexander Edward Fox born 1877, Perth to the Alexander Fox in this that born 1877 WA Perth.
Herman Julius Schauer before he came to Australia.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786892.msg6421879#msg6421879
You can see what I'm trying to do is understand how and Australian Mr Fox and a Victorian Ms Schauer marred in New Zealand. My biggest effort is to find out more about Alexander, but I'm also interested int the life of the Schauers since Maries family played a larger roll in the family's life..
Edited in: The parents of Annie Clark.. a side project.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786889.0
-
... [actually still trying to sort out your other current NZ thread. ;D ]
Others on here will also want to help you with this ... so it is helpful for us to know more precisely, just what you are trying to find out about these people ... and as you've mentioned previous "searching" or discussion having taken place on the subject(s), then it's a good idea to provide actual links to previous threads.
It can sometimes save those endeavouring to help you, a lot of extra effort in searching.
~ Lu
-
Already looking again since I posted, I found a couple things.
H Schauer
Birth 1873, leaving on a 1901 Ship to Burnie. More likely Herman.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q25D-N3XC
Female Schauer. Possibly Marie. (Born abt 1880, Victoria) on a boat in April.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-61K9-5DG
Her brother Carl I think on the same ship. (Born abt 1874, Victoria)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-61K9-5G2
There’s a Mrs Schauer with a male child on a 1914 ship. The Same port Marie and Carl used. May a have been Herman’s wife and one of his sons on a visit to Melbourne?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-61C9-DD3
R G Schauer born Australia 1884 with a B L Schauer coming to Australia 1930. (2 years after Marie had movied there, and perhaps shortly after the Webb Family, since they lived the rest of their lives in NSW)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6189-4ML
Gustave Rudalph married a Bertha Laura Watson 1922 in NZ, and she died in NSW 1960. Not sure what happened to Gustave. Don’t know whether they had children.
Frederick Schauer may have never went to New Zealand.
Annie Davey sure did, though I don’t know about her husband. The fact her baby is named after her previous husband might say their relationship broken down before she born. Or maybe as she was illiterate, she mistaken the question on the forms?
She Schauers were such a unique name. Some of them even got into trouble around WW1 for having names that sounded too German.
Hey Lucy2, I don't mean to stretch you with old mysteries of old certain families. I hope you're enjoying your NZ holidays.
-
Herman Julius SCHAUER's probate, 1920, New Zealand.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99L3-Z9KB-T?wc=7HPH-JRL%3A1045248401%2C1292517601%3Fcc%3D1865481&cc=1865481
A snip from the Public Trustee's affidavit
-
A report of the wedding of Carl Albert SCHAUER, about half way down the page.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZFL19010330.2.15?query=Schauer
-
The WW1 military file for Rudolph Gustave SCHAUER.
http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE10795491
-
Rudolph G was in the USA in 1913
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G5N6-9BTW
-
Carl SCHAUER death notice.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19290121.2.132?query=Schauer
-
There is a death for a Freidrich SCHAUER in Adelaide in 1912. From the South Australia database.
-
Thanks for all those Johnf04,
I didn't know Gustave went to America. That's very interesting.
I'd seen the military file and the probate, but not the newpaper articles. I'm not sure about Frederick dying in S.A. Especially with a more German sounding name.
The death of Carl Albert in Taihape. Much more of a remote location his previous work as a Hotel Owner in Wellington. Those American ships using NOK listings that far back is so handy.
I know his daughter was Ellinor Alice Elizabeth Schauer, and that she married a man named John Alphege Fagan, who I think died in 1971. I think she died 1994. But I haven't saved my sources properly. I never found reference to any Children from then. I'm not sure they had any but it would be hidden from record. It would be nice to one day find one of my cousins from the Schauer lines, but I'm not sure is there are any to find.
-
There is a lot about Carl on Papers Past - he qualified as a plumber, became a sanitary inspector, left after some years to run the hotel, then went back to sanitary inspections.
-
John Alphege FAGAN died in 1986.
1986/46723 Fagan John Althege 19 April 1896
His military files are interesting - he had a number of aliases.
-
John FAGAN's duplicate military file (there are two files available) has his world war 2 attestation - with information about his birthplace, and marital status at the time. He states he has 3 children under 16 years of age, and is legally separated from his wife.
http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE18767493
Edited to add....the attestation is file 22
-
Carl (Charlie) Albert Schauer death notice [1929] late of Wellington……
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19290119.2.5?query=schauer%20deaths
Death of his wife [1920]….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19201006.2.4?query=schauer%20deaths
Birth of a daughter [1902]….. To be added shortly.......
Added:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19020304.2.51?query=schauer
Minniehaha.
-
Thanks Minihaha for those extra dates arounnd Carl, Ellen and Ellinor.
Wow, and thank you John for finding word of those Children. I didn't know I'd find any if they existed. It'll be harder to find anything about them unless they're looking into their own family heritage. And it's likely they're all passed away now. Those Fagan parent names are a great help.
Also! I noticed that Rudolph's war papers had his sister Marie Fox as the Next of Kin! I've been working on Her mostly as she's my direct relative. I've added it to a forum I started to work on.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=787303
-
Seany - there may be someone here who can check for death notices for John - his date of death is on a notification in the army file. He died on Waiheke Island, so the NZ Herald would be the place to look.Children's names should be mentioned in a death notice.
John.
-
How would one go about finding the death notice? I've also seen that Eleanor died in 1994. So findmypast would say.
I just emailed the man responsible for the accuracy of the Auckland museum records. Sourced as a researcher who added notes on John Fagan's father.
Hopeful it's John's son. Which would make him the 3rd John in a row. Or coincidence. I'm an optimistic kind of guy though.
-
So I stumbled upon the old bible of Marie Schauer. There was a name in here I didn't recognise. Frederick William Shaw. Death 8 May 1936 aged 59 Ranwick Hospital, NSW. I looked up the BDM to see who the parents were.
Herman Julius and Annie.
The age has his born 1877, which is the same year Frederick William Schauer was born in Victoria. So it would have been her brother. So I finally know what happened to him. But I don't understand the name change? He had a wife Kathleen Mary Kirchhubel who died in Prahran, Victoria. And also a daughter named Marie Kathleen Schauer who died under her maiden name in 1974. So I think that line has died out. Maybe there was a divorce, or he ran away?
I still don't know what happened to Gustave Rudalph Schauer. He married Bertha Laura Watson 1922 in New Zealand. She apparently dies in Bass Hill, NSW in 1960. I still don't know what happened to Gustave.
More things to Ponder
-
Perhaps he anglicised his name during WW1?
-
I believe you may be be right John. Though his wife and child kept by their old name, and they died down in Victoria. Strange! But I did read a newspaper article in NZ accusing the Schauer family of being German sympathizers and had to explain that they were all born in Australia. Schauer to Shaw makes sense.
-
Not ‘apparently’: 26056/1960 SCHAUER Bertha Laura parents CHARLES HENRY and FLORA BANKSTOWN
Jamjar
-
Hi Jamjar, That seem to be her. I'm not sure who did it, but I also found some names on a historical blog that noted that Bertha's birth was 24 Feb 1890 Wairau, NZ. Though I can't find her in the NZ bdm.
I also found Herman Albert Thompson Schauer born in NZ 1907
Then I find him dying in Malvern, Victoria under the name Shaw in 1952
So there is another case of going by the name of 'Shaw'
It's tough to track down Gustave. I wonder if he kept the Schauer since his wife did.
The real tough part is trying to understand what happened to their youngest sister, Marie Elizabeth Schauer. Who on her marriage cert has the Herman as the father, except he's been dead for years, and her mother was married to John Davey 4 years earlier. She just vanishes from records.
-
Part quote from reply #23........
"but I also found some names on a historical blog that noted that Bertha's birth was 24 Feb 1890 Wairau, NZ. Though I can't find her in the NZ bdm."
This looks like it Seany...... ;D
1890/6779 Watson Bertha Laura Flora Charles
Minniehaha.
-
Parents marriage:
1870/6336 Flora Watson Charles Watson
These are possible siblings.......
1883/11567 Watson Alice Flora Charles
1887/15339 Watson Christina Flora Flora Charles -
1884/7241 Watson Ellen Flora Charles -
1881/17054 Watson Alfred Flora Charles
1893/17584 Watson Alexander Ford Flora Charles Henry
1876/3911 Watson Rose Flora Charles
1879/1633 Watson Charles Flora Charles Henry
1871/23317 Watson Laura Flora Charles -
1872/23625 Watson Grace Flora Charles -
1874/35638 Watson Sarah Jane Flora Charles
Minniehaha.
-
Minniehaha! Nice job finding those :) Thanks for that.
Because Gustave and Bertha married in 1922, There's no hope of seeing who their children were, or if the had any. He was 37 and she was 32. Possible they still had a child or two.
I'll keep those siblings names for a rainy day in case someone on that side of the family knows what happened to Bertha.
I just found Gustave's brother Frederick William Schauer's death. 1836 in NSW under the surname name 'Shaw'. Has the right parents :) It's all coming together. His wife Kathleen Mary Kirchhubel (Married 1908 in Victoria) seems to have died in Prahran under the name Catherine Mary Shaw, parents Herman Kirchhubel and Katilda Greenway (Matilda?)
Still looking for Eric William Schauer, son of Herman and Constance. His brother Herman died in Australia as Shaw, and his father 1919 in New Zealand. Not sure where he got to.
-
If you are looking for (any) children for Bertha, the following information may be found on NSW's records.......
Registrations Information available from 1856:
Death Full name, sex, age, date & place of death, place of residence, occupation and marital status.
Place of marriage, age when married, full name of spouse. Children's name and ages. Parents' names and mother's maiden name.
Cause of death and duration of last illness. Burial or cremation date and place.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/registry-records.aspx
Minniehaha.
-
Hello John, Seany & Minniehaha..
I was doing a search for my grandfather John Alphage Fagan from my base in Norway and came across your posts. He did indeed have three daughters with my grandmother Eleanor Alice Elisabeth Schauer. They are: R (my mother born in 1926 - Living in UK / P - born 1931 and living in Napier / A - born 1938 living in Paikakariki). They are all still very much alive with many children and many grandchildren and even great grandchildren, mostly in New Zealand, but also spread across the world... It is fantastic to know that as a family we have roots in Prussia! - And also wonderful to know that there are long-lost cousins out there somewhere as well...!
Myself and my cousins are looking forward to finding out more. All the best for now.
Attached photo of J.A. Fagan - before he went to Gallipoli
-
Welcome to RC and the NZ board.
As it is policy of RootsChat not to name the living, I suggest you click on the MODIFY button and then shorten the names of the living to just initials. Then click on SAVE. After 24 hours only a MODERATOR can alter your text & post title.
Minniehaha checks in most days, so probably you will get an acknowledgement from her when she is up and going tomorrow.
If you re-post your J. A. Fagan photo on to the Photo Restore board, the volunteer members there with give it a new life. However each image attached to a post has to have a unique title, so probably best to first make a copy with a new title. I usually just add RC to my file name. (Eg. RC standing for my RootsChat archived copy, which I've probably modified to be under the 500Kb size limit, but which your posted photo already meets)
Alan.
-
FaganShaw,
How unexpected! I'm so glad to hear from you. Since I'd first posted here I'd occasional tried over and over to look for a living relative on the Schauer side but to no such luck. Happy you've finally appeared and are interested in the old days.
I hope you might have some insights that I couldn't have thought up. And it's quite amazing your mum's generation are still around. From what I can gather, they would be the last children of that generation, and might have the faintest memory of their parents lives. Maybe a story or two? I believe my parent would be your mum's 2nd cousin.
In the meantime I've got a little collection of notes about the Schauers but there's still a lot I need to do, and haven't touched it in quite some time.
Look forward to hearing back.
-
Hello Seany,
Trying to work out how to work this system and reply to a personal message...! I think I am not allowed to respond to personal messages until I have posted at least three times..?
Anyway me and my cousins are very amazed and excited about finding other Schauer descendants out there. My mother too.. she couldn't sleep when I told her that there was a Schauer descendant looking for her & her sisters!.. She doesn't really remember Charlie Shaw as he became known, but has all sorts of stories about the family.. She knows that Carl came to NZ for a gold mining job in Greymouth or Westport. She has a photo of herself as a baby (92 years ago!) being held by Carl. She has always thought that the Schauer family came from Baden-Württemberg area in South West Germany near the Rhine... Mum also said that she tried to look for related Schauers in Melbourne when she was there... found a lot in the phone book, but never in person..
My self and my cousins have been collecting family facts, photos and stories for some years and are looking forwards to sharing them. I will get my other roots interested cousins (Also great grandsons of Carl Schauer) to sign up here, so that we can all share details...
-
Hi again Fagan.
You are doing ok. Just one more post which can be as simple as hitting "reply" at the bottom of this post and acknowledging with txt, or just a smile, from the above selection, and post.
Then to the left of a post by a person you would like to send a PM to, you will see two icons under the copywright note. One is of a profile outline, the other (right) one looks like a note pad Click on it and it will take you directly to the private message page for that poster. Don't worry about the addressee box, but add a subject title in the next (2nd) vacant box. Then type your message and process just as you did to make your posts on the open forum boards.
A members profile and private messages can also be accessed from the big banner bar at the top of the page. If you wish to privately share images you will have to arrange to share personal email addresses, as there is no provision for images in the PRIVATE MESSAGE system.
All the best,
Alan.
-
OOP'S.
Not sure what happened for my message to have displayed the way it has. Draft mode looks correct.
Perhaps too slow typing it out ???
Alan.
EDIT Just realized I used the wrong brackets, so the programme took direction from them with regard to the display set. NOW CORRECTED.
-
Note of interest.
It would appear that management has reduced the requirement to two (2) posts before access to Private Messaging is exercised.
Faganshaw is now successfully sharing information about their heritage, including of those still living.
Yesterday I did spot an advisory on the TECHNICAL board by "sarah" but assumed it only pertained to the restore and recognition boards.
EDIT added sarah's note from 18/11/19
"It is only 2 posts to use the chat, you should be ok now
Regards
Sarah"
Alan.