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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: River Tyne Lass on Wednesday 07 February 18 12:46 GMT (UK)
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This is a long shot but I am wondering if anyone out there knows if Jacob Miller and his 'wife' Jane Anderson ever actually married?
In 1871 they were living in New York in Northumberland with their children Isabella, Sarah, William,
Jacob, John, Michael, and Alexander. Their daughter Isabella married my ancestor Thomas Conroy who was the brother of my Great x 2 Grandfather Simon Peter Conroy. Their son Michael married Elizabeth Watson who was the niece of Simon Peter. Her parents were William and Mary Watson nee Conroy.
I suspect that Jacob and Jane may have met in Morpeth, Northumberland as both were living there in 1851 and several of their children are baptized here.
I have never been able to find a marriage for them and wonder if they were common-in-law partners?
Any thoughts appreciated.
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Have you considered Jane might have been married before and therefore not free to marry Jacob
Have found this family on 1861 but have you looked for Jane on 1851, Jacob is at home with parents on 1851 if I am correct, not to sure about Jane , I'll leave that open for the time being,
1861 their first child is aged 5 and her mother's maiden name is Anderson, registered 1855
Louisa Maud
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Thank you Louisa Maud - no I had not considered this but you have a point. I suppose it might be possible. This sounds like something worth looking into. :o
In 1851 Jane is living with her parents Alexander Anderson and Isabella. They are living in Beggan? Lane, in Morpeth close to Newgate Street where Jacob is living.
I am very grateful for your post. I think when I get time this is something worth chasing up.
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There is a Jacob Miller who married a Jane Armstrong in the June quarter of 1861 is Wigton, Cumbria.
This Jacob's Father also called Jacob was from Wigton. I wonder if this could possibly be them? If so, I wonder why Jane is down as Armstrong?
Perhaps, I need to put a post on another board to see if anyone can look up the marriage. Jacob was a tin smith.
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18th May 1861
Jacob Miller of Saltcoates and Miss Jane Armstrong of Moss Side Holme Cultram
this is the Carlisle marriage
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Jacob Millar Anderson, mother Campbell born Morpeth Unon 1849 is down in the 1861 census as cousin down in 1851 with his parents John and Mary Anderson,I am sure you have worked out the family connection
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Found it
Jacob Millar of Morpeth to Jane Anderson
at Lamberton
on the 9th inst
Newcastle Journal August 19th 1854
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The marriage is als in the Alnwick Mercury dated 1st September 1854
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Wow! Radcliff this is amazing! I was thinking that they hadn't married at all. Thank you so much! :)
I wonder why they went all that way?
In 1841 there was a Jane Anderson in Morpeth with a family who I have mentioned on another post. This family, I suspect, is the one who were tried for the Matfen murder in 1856 along with my Great x 2 Grandparents James and Elizabeth Conroy. All were acquitted.
This 1841 family of Isabella, Jane, Eleanor/Ellen and Michael (Anderson's alias Allen) were all recorded as having been born in Morpeth. However, with the exception of Ellen/Eleanor there does not appear to be any records. I am sure I once read in a newspaper article of that time that this family were from the Scottish borders. I suspect that Jane who married Jacob was connected with this family in some way. Perhaps she may have been a cousin or a niece. The Andersons/Allen family who were tried at Newcastle with my ancestors do not appear in the 1851 census. I wonder if this family may have a Lamberton connection?
I forgot to mention that the first person you mentioned - Jacob Millar Anderson - was, I believe, Jane's cousin, the nephew of her Father Alexander. The Jacob she married was the son of Jacob and Ann Miller sometimes spelled Millar. Jacob, Ann and family also lived in Morpeth with son Jacob in 1851. By 1855 Jacob and Jane were back in Morpeth for the baptism of their first child, Isabella at St Robert, RC. Isabella later went on to marry the brother (Thomas Conroy) of my Great Grandfather. Jacob appears to have been an intermittent catholic, I might add, so I would not be surprised if they married in an Anglican Church.
A Jane Anderson was named as the Godmother of my Great Grandfather's brother James at his baptism in early 1853 at the St Francis Xavier R C Church near Waterloo Cottages where the murder of Dorothy Bewick took place.
I have checked on-line for Lamberton and it seems to be in Berwickshire. I wonder if the marriage record may be at the Berwick record office?
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I am not sure if their marriage will be in the archives I know Lamberton marriages were often recorded in the newspapers,there are records of some of the marriages surviving in Berwick archives,Lamberton was I suppose a little like Gretna,where people went off to marry in haste,perhaps there was a reason they went of to marry I checked Scotlands people it's not there in their database the laws in Scotland about registration were slightly different to Englands,quite interesting when you read up on Lamberton Toll, well at least now you know they were in fact legally married,good luck with the rest of your research x
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I am not sure if their marriage will be in the archives I know Lamberton marriages were often recorded in the newspapers,there are records of some of the marriages surviving in Berwick archives,Lamberton was I suppose a little like Gretna,where people went off to marry in haste,perhaps there was a reason they went of to marry I checked Scotlands people it's not there in their database the laws in Scotland about registration were slightly different to Englands,quite interesting when you read up on Lamberton Toll, well at least now you know they were in fact legally married,good luck with the rest of your research x
Northumberland and Durham Family History Society published a book of Transcripts of Lamberton Toll marriages 1833-1849 and there is a copy at Northumberland Archives :D
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Morpeth Herald,13th October 1866
George aged 1,on the 9th inst,son of Jacob Millar,
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Morpeth Herald,April 6th 1861
in this town on the 28th ult,aged 2 months,Alexander
son of Jacob Miller,
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Morpeth Herald,November 10th 1866
aged 1 month,Robert Taylor,
son of Jacob Miller,
on the 3rd inst
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Did they move down to Bedlington,?
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Hurrah! I am so glad to hear that a record exists at Northumberland Archives. I am working a lot of hours this week but I will now post a look up request. :D
I am not sure if they went to Bedlington. I am not at home at the moment so do not have my records to hand. I know they had a surviving son called Alexander. They probably did as I think Jane's family went there if I remember correctly, and then on to Amble.
Thank you so much both of you for your help. This is marvellous. I had reconciled myself that they just had not married but now not only do I discover that they did but there also appears to be some intrigue mixed in as well.
I wonder if the match was disapproved of by one set of parents? The notices for the marriage seem to have been delayed.
I am in touch with a lady who is also researching this couple. I think she is going to be thrilled when she learns that a marriage record has been found in the newspapers. :D She too, had been searching for some time without success.
Many, many thanks :)
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Oh! I have just realised that the Transcrpts you mention at the Northumberland Archives don't go up to 1854. Oh well, never mind at least I know they did marry.
Perhaps I could request at look up at Berwick?
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No problem Tynelass,it's about time I came up trumps for you after all you have done for me ,
So with a Bedlington connection these may be worth filing away for a rainy day,
Morpeth Herald,Jan 1868
At Bedlington on the 25th Dec,the wife of Jacob Miller a daughter,
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Morpeth Herald,Saturday May 27th 1871
Jacob Miller,on the 16th inst, aged 70,a tinsmith
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Morpeth Herald,November 22nd 1873
At Bedlington,lately the wife of John Anderson a son,in the same paragraph,the wife of Jacob Miller a daughter ,
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You're words are very kind Radcliff. :)
These additional notices are great! When I return home I am going to add this information to my records when I work out which child they each likely relate to and I now have his Father's death date too.
After Jane died Jacob and their son Jacob placed a lovely memoriam for her in the paper in the form of a poem. Both Jacob and Jane are buried at Earsdon Cemetery. They lived out their last year's together at New York. After, Jane's death Jacob must have gone to live at West Allotment I presume as his burial record gives his address as the 'Allotment.'
Thank you for finding the marriage when I had all but given up - and all these notices too! Fantastic finds for my records. :)
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Possible births in conjunction with newspaper clippings
Phillis Miller mother Anderson,
D,1868,Morpeth,there is a death recorded in Morpeth for a Philliss aged 4,in 1872
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Phillis Miller,mother Anderson,
M,1873,Morpeth
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Have you accessed their grave in Earsdon,
Section E,grave number 2067
Michael Aged 37,10.6.1873
Sara,aged 16,18.2.1874
Jane,aged 65,27.2.1895
Jacob,aged 68,21.1.1900
section E is around the Memorial
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Thank you again. ;)
I have never been to the Cemetery but I will go one day to see if they may have a grave stone. They may have a stone as Jacob appears to have had money to leave in a will. Daughter Isabella was named in probate.
I know this Michael will not be their son as he died in 1941 and is buried in Preston Cemetery. His wife was Thomas Conroy's niece who was called Elizabeth Watson. She was the daughter of Mary Watson nee Conroy.
Will have to check out Sara/Sarah as unsure what happened to her.
Best Wishes :)
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Oh! I have just realised that the Transcrpts you mention at the Northumberland Archives don't go up to 1854. Oh well, never mind at least I know they did marry.
Perhaps I could request at look up at Berwick?
A search reveals that there was another volume covering 1849 -1855, so hopefully N. Archives will also have a copy of that. I’m not aware of any R-chatters going to Berwick Archives but some go regularly to Woodhorn.
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Yes they do have a headstone I will try and pinpoint exactly where it is for you in section E xxx
Mick Sharp did this simplified section map
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Oh! I have just realised that the Transcrpts you mention at the Northumberland Archives don't go up to 1854. Oh well, never mind at least I know they did marry.
Perhaps I could request at look up at Berwick?
A search reveals that there was another volume covering 1849 -1855, so hopefully N. Archives will also have a copy of that. I’m not aware of any R-chatters going to Berwick Archives but some go regularly to Woodhorn.
Apologies, I misread what you said. What I meant is that I didn’t know of anyone going to Berwick on Tweed Archives.
As you have now put up a look up request on the Berwickshire board, can I suggest that you add a link on there to this thread, or you might find people are duplicating information.
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Wonderful Radcliff! :D Now I will definitely have to go to This cemetery as soon as work permits.
Thank you so much for this!
I only have a few minutes Jen, as I am working today. I will try to find out how to follow your advice re: linking as soon as I can. Thank you for advice. :)
Best Wishes to you both!
PS This is a great map, by the way :)
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I will try to find out how to follow your advice re: linking as soon as I can.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/faqs.php#link_2_post :)
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Thank you Jen.
Radcliff - I was just wondering is the memorial you refer to the Hartley Memorial? I have been in the Churchyard area and viewed this memorial as a child and quite a few years ago when I took my own son to see this. My Dad was a miner and he told me the story of this disaster, when I was young. (It was my Dad was inspired my passion for interest in history and family history).
I remember the grave area at the Church on my last visit - quite a few years ago - as being very overgrown.
I wonder if this will be the same now?
Or is the memorial some other one at the back? When I wrote I have never been to Earsdon Cemetery, I thought this was a separate one from the Church.
I will definitely be going when I get time. Many thanks for letting me know this exists. :)
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No I uncovered to a degree a lot of the headstones in the memorial section where the Miller grave is, as you stand looking down at the memorial the section your Miller grave is in is to the left of the memorial,the section goes down as far as the small path that runs along the bottom of that section,and the path that runs along to the memorial,I have not been in for awhile but I know a good friend of mine continues to attend to this section weather permitting,I do have copies of the grave numbers in that section,and will recheck my photo's just in case I do have a photo
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this is a rough idea where it is,come behind the church,and turn right, and walk along the path,as if you were going to the memorial,but stop here and look down, quite obviousley the plots are not in perfect lines if you can guestimate 6 plots running across from the path that runs down on your left towards the lower sections,this is the start of section E,your Millar grave is 6 plots in from the left and 24 plots down hahah would be easier to pick you up the next time am in Northumberland and take you
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Hi Radcliff,
I had a spare hour this afternoon and so nipped along to the cemetery. I tried to follow your directions but unfortunately could not locate the grave at all. Even one of the workers in the grounds could not help. The worker asked what year they were buried and when I told him he said they probably had graves which couldn't be read. However, I saw lots of graves which you could clearly read.
I presume when you say to the left of the monument you do mean before reaching the monument?
Do you happen to know if it is a large grave stone or just a small memorial?
Your offer is very kind indeed but I often just have to go places on spec whenever I can fit time in between long shifts both day and night and on-calls and family commitments.
I took a photo of the board outside the church. Would it be possible for you to put an X on to mark a rough idea of the spot and then when I can next try to fit this in I will have another go. I will try to attach a photo of the board on a follow up post.
By the way the Sara and Michael you mention - it sounds to me like these people will likely be the brother and sister of Jacob. Their ages seem to fit in. When I get a chance I will try to find out more.
Thank you for all this help. When I do finally manage to locate the grave I will let you know on here.
Best Wishes :)
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Here is the photo of the board ...
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Hi Jen
Just to let you know - I think I have now been able to successfully link the post. :)
Also, if anyone is going to Woodhorn and this document is there would it be possible to try to look up this information for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I have tried Berwick but nobody seems to be able to help at that end with a look up.
Thanks in anticipation.
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Hi Everyone,
Just to let you know. Another source (not on RootsChat) has just sent me word that Jacob and Jane are listed on the Lamberton marriages with a page number but no further information is provided.
It appears these runaway marriages were kept very secretive indeed. :-\ Oh, well, at least I got to find out that they did marry and Radcliff has been able to kindly let me know a gravestone exists so the search goes on! :)
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Please email me Tyne Lass and I will send you a grave reference map,I have tried to attach t to your post but it is to large,and I don't seem to be able to send it to you via a pm either
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Thank you very much. I have just emailed you and I am looking forward to receiving the map. I can't get to Cemetery at moment because of work. However, I do plan to get there again as soon as I get more time. I will post on here to let you know when found. :)
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About those registers at Northumberland Archives. They do hold the microfilm copy of the registers of Henry Collins and those are the ones performed by him and up to 1849--Vol 1. The other list of marriages in Volume 2 are names found in the Berwick Advertiser and other border newspapers. Those are from 1808-1864. These on occasion included father's names but mostly the bride's father. Your names did not.
Janis
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The Irregular Border Marriages were frowned upon even in the vicinity of the border. I have a few sets of grandparents that married at Lamberton Toll, and one of those couples that worked at Mordington were sumonsed to a court hearing (1833) at Mordington Hall about their irregular marriage. The Toll was only a short distance from Mordington Hall. It seems their marriage was not dissolved but they were 'rebuked' for it. There is a written record, though it doesn't go into any detail. I suppose such marriages were best kept quiet, and after all, how many times does anyone actually check up on whether a couple is really married or not after the event?
My ancestors were Presbyterian, that is why they chose the Irregular marriages.
P
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Thank you Janis and Phodgetts for your additional posts/information on this thread. :) I really appreciate this. All I can think is that there must have been disapproval from one of both of their families regarding their match and hence the runaway marriage.
Incidentally, for anyone researching this family Jacob and Jane's Grandson Jacob Conroy (my first cousin, twice removed) is named on the memorial at New York, North Shields. He was killed in action during WW1. There is a photo of him on the North East War Memorials Project.
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Hi Radcliff,
It is a gloriously sunny 🌞 day on Tyneside so I decided to have another go at trying to find Jacob and Jane's memorial stone in the Earsdon Church yard this afternoon. I donned wellies just in case it might still be muddy but it wasn't too bad. It was nice to see that the ground is now carpeted with snow drops in abundance and the daffodils are just starting to bloom.
I looked around for a while without success but then thanks to the kindness of strangers - two men came to my aid in this search - the grave stone was finally located! ;D
It is about a medium sized stone and has a lot of inscription on it. From the writing it would appear that besides Michael Miller, Sarah Miller, Jacob and Jane Miller there is also an Isabella Campbell wife of John Campbell buried there in 1907.
The gravestone is to the right of a slightly gnarled tree and is slightly leaning over.
Would I be able to post the inscription on here for the benefit of others who may be researching this family too? Or do you think there may be rules against this?
Thank you so much for your help Radcliff - I would not have known that they had a grave if not for you. I am very appreciative of all your help, and for sending the map. ;D
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Hi Radcliff,
Just to let you know that I have also put a post on the Gravestones part of RootsChat with a photo of a six pointed star symbol which is at the top of the headstone. I did this because I was intrigued about the possible meaning of this.
I have just had a very interesting reply :D from 'sarah' regarding the meaning of this and she suggests that there may be a Masonic link too.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=789896.msg6459817
Best Wishes
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so glad you were able to locate the grave,x
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Thank you for all the work I know you have done at this Church in clearing the overgrowth, Radcliff. The grave area is not at all as I remembered it from many years back when it was very overgrown.
You are one of those unsung heroes in having taken on this work.
I am sure a lot of family historians like myself will have benefited from all your hard work. This is very appreciated that I could easily see the long inscription yesterday without having to push back weeds. :)
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This post of mine is now duplicated:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=791239.0;topicseen
Since finding the Millers' grave at Earsdon, I am now trying to find out more on other people who are named on their gravestone. This is the inscription:
SACRED
TO THE MEMORY OF
MICHAEL MILLER
NEW YORK
THE BELOVED HUSBAND OF ISABELLA MILLER
WHO DIED JUNE 10TH 1873 AGED 37 YEARS
HERE RESTS A HUSBAND WHO WAS KIND
AND OF A TENDER LOVING MIND
HE LIVED A LIFE OF FAITHFUL LOVE
IN HOPE TO DWELL IN HEAVEN ABOVE
SARAH THE NIECE OF THE ABOVE MICHAEL
AND DAUGHTER OF JACOB AND JANE MILLER
WHO DIED FEB 10th? 1874
AGED 16 YEARS
THE ABOVE JANE DIED FEB 27 1895
AGED 63 YEARS
THE ABOVE JACOB MILLER DIED JAN 23 1900 AGED ? YEARS
ISABELLA CAMPBELL
BELOVED WIFE OF JOHN CAMPBELL OF NEW YORK
DIED DEC 26 1907 AGED 62 YEARS
I do believe Michael would have been Jacob's younger brother. However, does anyone know anything concerning the Isabella who was his wife? Also, does anyone have any idea who the mentioned John and Isabella Campbell may have been? I do think because they are mentioned on the grave stone they will be relations.
The information on the burial register records that Isabella Campbell's home address was Harbottle's Buildings, New York.
Her Evening Chronicle death (Friday, December 27, 1907) notice doesn't seem to yield any clues and she had no memoriam notice the year after death:
'CAMPBELL.- At New York, on the 26th, aged 62 years, Isabella, beloved wife of John Campbell, hawker. Interment at Earsdon on Sunday 29th at 3 pm. Friends please accept this intimation.'
I would really appreciate hearing from you if you may know more. Thank you.
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I think I have found John and Isabella in Annitsford in a caravan in 1891.
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For anyone else who may be researching this Miller family - I have very recently discovered that someone has a website concerning these ancestors. I have contacted the owner of the website and have been given permission to put the link to his website on here. :)
His website is a work in progress.
http://www.gridlad.co.uk