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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: jonwicken on Wednesday 07 February 18 22:20 GMT (UK)
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Hi all while usually I am posting about my ancestors, last week I was with my friend who runs our community library in London and she mentioned in passing that she had never seen a photograph of her father.
I said that as I am used to digging around I would see if I might be able to find anything. Well amazingly I was able to make contact with a cousin of her father and yesterday she received an email with a photograph. It was an amazing thing and I am delighted for her, especially as she does so much in our community.
Now though, I am moving on to see if I can try and find out some more about her family. This relates to the fact he had a first wife and was said by her to have had a daughter. We have no name of the daughter who would be my friend's elder sister and I am trying to see if this was indeed true.
We have the marriage certificate which took place in The Register Office, Pontypridd on 28th May 1948. This was between William Cowie Dunbar, a 22 year old Aero Fitter, and Dorothy Dunn, a 17 year old Factory Typist.
Her father was James Arthur Dunn, a general labourer. The witnesses were Walter P. Gay and Elizabeth F. Gay.
Now I know that William and Dorothy divorced as on his second marriage in 1953 it states marriage dissolved.
But I can't find a birth for a person with the name Dunbar and maiden name Dunn between 1948 and 1953 and I can't trace Dorothy's birth in Wales in c1930-1931 so I have no idea where she was born.
Has anyone therefore please got any ideas which might be helpful? If my friend has a half sister she would very much like to know. Her father died in 1955 when she was a baby and her mother when she was 16 so there are many gaps to try and fill in.
Many thanks,
Jon
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But I can't find a birth for a person with the name Dunbar and maiden name Dunn
Your post says Dunn married Dunn?
This was between William Cowie Dunn, a 22 year old Aero Fitter, and Dorothy Dunn, a 17 year old Factory Typist.
Her father was James Arthur Dunn, a general labourer. The witnesses were Walter P. Gay and Elizabeth F. Gay.
He was William Cowie Dunbar
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The 1939 register should come up with candidates (not just limited to wales)
Can't see where any Dunbar came into it.
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and was said by her to have had a daughter
In the absence of any birth reg - how reliable is that info?
Could Dorothy have remarried and that daughter was born to her second marriage?
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Freebmd has a Walter P Gay marriage in 1938 to Elizabeth F Dunn
Births September qtr 1920
Dunn Elizabeth F Creener Pontypridd 11a 1306
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mmn should be Greener
Marriages Dec qtr 1913
Dunn James A Cardiff 11a 689
Greener Maude L Cardiff 11a 689
Deaths
Maude Liddle Dunn 94 born 19 Jan 1890
Death reg Sep 1984 Ogwr 27 650
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Free search of 1939 register has this entry, this would give you her dob
Dorothy Anderson (Dunbar,Dunn) 1930
Llantrisant and Llantwit Fardre R.D.
Glamorganshire Wales
Forgot to add
Charles F Greener b1873 also on this record and Elizabeth J Greener 1878
Plus one person officially closed
Greener Charles Frederick Jun 1873 Durham 10a 390
Edit - Charles and Elizabeth Greener are brother and sister see censuses parent Henry & Jane
Elizabeth J Greener died age. 71 Mar 1950 Pontypridd Glamorganshire Volume: 8b Page: 682
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Taken me a while using free search criteria 1939
Dorothy Anderson (Dunbar, Dunn) birth date is 03 12 1930
I can’t find a birth entry for a Dorothy Dunn on FreeBMD
Dec qtr. 1930 to Mar qtr. 1931 ???
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Oh wow! Thanks so much, everyone.
The story about William having another daughter came from his sisters-in-laws [sisters on his second wife). They would have known him and their sister and this was talked about so I think there must be some truth to it. Except of course this might have been to another woman.
I am so pleased to have found out about Dorothy Dunn/Dunbar. Having looked at other 1939 register entries I know Anderson must have been a married name or a name she adopted legally. A lot more digging to do but this is great.
Thank so much.
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I can’t find a birth entry for a Dorothy Dunn on FreeBMD
Dec qtr. 1930 to Mar qtr. 1931 ???
Me neither. I can't find a Dunbar/Anderson marriage either
Married 1948 and divorced before 1953 when William remarried - quick for those days
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Yes I was surprised too, especially as neither were well off. However his second marriage clearly states "marriage dissolved" so there must have been paperwork shown at the time of his second marriage I imagine.
I wondered if perhaps a daughter could have been born before they married in 1948 but I can't identify anything there either.
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There is only this death entry of a Dorothy Anderson which would fit:
Dorothy Anderson abt 1930 Dec 1960 Plymouth Devon
But no idea if this could be her or not!
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Thanks to all the information I have now obtained the 1939 entry which states that Dorothy Dunn changed her name in 1951. Searching for the code it seems this is for a deed poll. So this must mean that by 1951 she had separated from William Cowie Dunbar and was presumably in a relationship with someone else?
I don't understand how her entry is viewable as she was not born 100 years ago. I can't see a death date in the entry so how does findmypast know to make the entry visible? Does anyone please know?
Thanks,
Jon
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Her 1939 entry would be viewable if she had died so maybe the 1960 death is her. Though there are some mistakes too (i have a relative born 1937 who is visible on there).
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Wondering if this is her - onward address is 4 Plasnewydd, Cardiff
Dorothy Dunn
Age: 1
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Arrival Date: 22 Aug 1932
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ship Name: Alaunia
Parents James Dunn, 43, labourer and Maud, 33
5 brothers, who I won;t name in case they're still alive
Maybe she was born in Canada, hence finding no birth
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Marriages Dec 1913 Cardiff 11a 689
Dunn James A Greener
Greener Maude L Dunn
edit: sorry - hadn't spotted this above!
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Wondering if this is her - onward address is 4 Plasnewydd, Cardiff
Dorothy Dunn
Age: 1
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Arrival Date: 22 Aug 1932
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ship Name: Alaunia
Parents James Dunn, 43, labourer and Maud, 33
5 brothers, who I won;t name in case they're still alive
Maybe she was born in Canada, hence finding no birth
I think you have correct family but no dau Elizabeth born 1920 Pontypridd with them :-\
Her death
Elizabeth Florence Gay nee Dunn
Death Age: 87
Birth Date: 18 Jun 1920
Feb 2007 Rhondda
5 male Dunn mmn Greener 1915- 1926 Pontypridd
Here’s death entry of the youngest named on the passenger list
Max Dunn Death Age: 70 born 20 Feb 1926
Jan 1997 Cardiff
Register Number: C5B District and Subdistrict: 8901C Entry Number: 2
I assume they left UK after 1926 although I haven’t found them on an outward passenger list
Edit
I don’t have access to check for you but on Canadian Passenger Lists 1865 – 1935
1929 Max Dunn birth 1926 Wales arrival Quebec Canada
Also born Wales are
James Arthur, James Henry, Richard Hamilton, A N R Dunn arrival Quebec Canada
There is a tree on anc*y naming parents as James Arthur Dunn & Maud Liddle Greener
with a newspaper article for Richard Hamilton Dunn born in Efail Isaif near Pontypridd
son of a solider, one of five brothers mentions their names, Richard went to NZ where he has since died...... there's a picture , brother James Henry Dunn also died in NZ
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There is only this death entry of a Dorothy Anderson which would fit:
Dorothy Anderson abt 1930 Dec 1960 Plymouth Devon
But no idea if this could be her or not!
This is probably just a coincidence but thought I would post details due to name and her date of birth even though it says Miss
Name Miss Dorothy Anderson
Birth 3 Dec 1930
Death 24 Oct 2015 - Eyemouth, Scottish Borders, Scotland
Scotland and Northern Ireland, Death Index, 1989-2015
Name MS Dorothy Anderson
Birth 1930-1932
Residence 2003-2004, 2006-2007, 2009-2010 - Eyemouth, Berwickshire, Scotland
UK, Electoral Registers, 2003-2010
Perhaps you could check the Electoral Register for the address given on 1939 Register to see if she was still living in Wales
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Thanks so much, everyone for all the posts and information. Rootschat never fails to impress me. Tracking down Dorothy is great and yes she does indeed seem to be the person in the passenger lists so must have been born in Canada.
I have looked at the ancestry pages too but unfortunately the person who compiled the tree has not logged in for quite a while so does not look like they will get my message. So close but not there yet.
I looked at the 2015 death entry on the Scotland's People website:
ANDERSON DOROTHY 84 COWE 2015 782/ 69 Eyemouth
However it seems as though her mother's maiden name was Cowe so don't think it can be her but thanks so much for picking up on the birthdate.
It seems that the next step is to perhaps order the 1960 death certificate perhaps and see what that says.
Thanks again or all your help,
Jon
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Tracking down Dorothy is great and yes she does indeed seem to be the person in the passenger lists so must have been born in Canada.
Yes, that was a great find from Mabel Bagshawe
I have looked at the ancestry pages too but unfortunately the person who compiled the tree has not logged in for quite a while so does not look like they will get my message.
So close but not there yet.
Will keep my fingers crossed for you hopefully their email address is still active
I looked at the 2015 death entry on the Scotland's People website:
ANDERSON DOROTHY 84 COWE 2015 782/ 69 Eyemouth
It was worth checking just on the off chance but at least you can rule her out
It seems that the next step is to perhaps order the 1960 death certificate perhaps and see what that says.
It's a shame the GRO Online Index death entries only go up to the year 1957, otherwise you
could have ordered online a PDF copy of digitized death entry for only £6 :(
Please come back and let us know how you get on - good luck with your search :)
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So thanks to everyone's help here, this morning I have had a reply over ancestry from Dorothy's great niece in Australia.
She has informed me that Dorothy moved to the US where she lived for many years mostly in California. Apparently she married several times and while her great niece new her later husbands she did not know about her first marriage in 1948.
Unfortunately Dorothy died last year but they are going to forward my emails to other family members who might know more. I do not know if she had any children yet to prove or disprove the theory of her having a daughter with William. But I will keep you updated.
Thanks again for all your help,
Jon