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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: hiraethu on Thursday 08 February 18 20:31 GMT (UK)
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As a partial favour/partial gift to two co-workers (sisters), I offered to do a quick family tree for them going back a few generations. Surprisingly (and a little annoyingly) their family has been pretty easy so far to trace. However I've run into a little name change and I'm not sure how to approach it. I'm mostly looking for help either uncovering documents that might register the change (though unlikely), or any ideas/general reasons why they might change the family name?
I have the Prince family in the 1911 census, 44 Lombard Street, Barry:
Henry Prince (b. about 1861 in Shropshire) working as a Lamplighter.
Margaret Prince (b. about 1867 in Penarth). They've been married about 25 years with 9 children, 8 still living.
Richard H (23, born in Cogan)
Ralph (20, born in Barry)
Alice (19, as above)
William (17, as above)
David (15, as above)
Thomas (14, as above)
Ida (8, born in Penarth)
In 1904 I find baptism records for William, David, Thomas, and Ida. All listed as Prince, abode listed as Y Persondy (The Parsonage).
In 1901 they are at 22 Lombard Street, as above but minus Ida and plus another daughter, Sarah (14, born in Penarth).
In 1891, it took a bit of hunting but here they appear to be, living in 24 Work Street, Cadoxton with another family (the Clarkes. Oddly enough daughter Sarah marries a Clarke, though I've yet to find if he's from the same family).
Henry (b. about 1863, born in Shropshire) general labourer
Margaret (b. about 1867, born in Penarth)
Sarah (4, as above)
Henry (who could be Richard Henry or the child who died by 1911) (2, as above)
Ralph (7 months, Barry)
Seems to fit, except now their surname is Fowler. The scan is not great quality but it's not a mistranscription. I've had a brief look through bmd for Fowler births for those children, and there are matches in the index for the right sorts of years, and no close enough results for those earlier children but with Prince as a surname.
Diolch for any ideas/hints/help!
EDIT: So another little search later and looking at ancestry's suggested documents, there's a birth and baptism for a Henry Prince. Then in the 1861 English census, a Henry Fowler/Prince appears. Emmanuel Prince is the head of the household and Sarah Fowler is a lodger, with three children, Samuel, Alice, and Henry. Samuel is listed as 'lodger son' while Alice and Henry are daughter and son. In the baptism Emmanuel is listed as the father. BMD tells me an Emanuel Prince married a Sarah Fowler in 1864. So was Henry born out of wedlock and named Prince once his parents married, changed his name mid-life to his mother's maiden name, then back again? It appears now that all of his children are registered on their birth certificate as Fowler, but later when daughter Sarah marries, she's Prince. Why?
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from GRO index birth reg for Ralph Fowler jun qtr 1891 Cardiff vol 11a pg 421 mother's maiden name Thomas
Likewise Ida Fowler march qtr 1903 Cardiff vol 11a pg 498 mmn Thomas
Birth reg for Henry Prince march qtr 1861 Ludlow has mother's maiden name as Fowler
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from GRO index birth reg for Ralph Fowler jun qtr 1891 Cardiff vol 11a pg 421 mother's maiden name Thomas
Likewise Ida Fowler march qtr 1903 Cardiff vol 11a pg 498 mmn Thomas
Thanks! As I posted this I then went on and discovered another side to the story, so I think I've pegged why he uses Fowler and Prince. Sort of. I guess it was before proper registration though so he could change his name if he wanted without much to-do.
Can I ask where you found the mother maiden name for those records though? I thought pre-1911 they weren't included in the index? Or is that just a freeBMD thing? Checked the GRO index itself and answered my own question!
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On the GRO website mothers maiden names start from 1837. You have to register which is free.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
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On the GRO website mothers maiden names start from 1837. You have to register which is free.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Thanks. I just realised that, though I don't know why just now, since I use that all the time. My brain must be going.
Was it quite common/acceptable to use different surnames like this then? It appears that all the children are registered civilly as Fowler, but the last four (maybe all) have been baptised Prince. The eldest daughter Sarah gets married as a Prince, and of course from 1901 they're all using Prince in the census, but Ida born in 1903 is still registered as a Fowler. I could understand if Henry was trying to get out of the shadow of being born out of wedlock, but he's still using Fowler in a legal sense.
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I have a family that used two names, it all stemmed from a case of illegitimacy, it was quite complicated and took some unravelling. I suspect something similar is the case in your family.
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I have a family that used two names, it all stemmed from a case of illegitimacy, it was quite complicated and took some unravelling. I suspect something similar is the case in your family.
The more I poke at this family, the more that comes out. It's probably a good thing they're not my lot or I'd be spending a small fortune in certificates. As it is, I'll write it up for my co-workers and hope that's good enough for them. I'm following the trail of Emmanuel Prince at the moment and I'm at risk of falling down a very deep rabbit hole.
Thanks all for your help!
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He was registered as Prince which may have needed both parents to be present at the registration. The birth cert would show for sure.
Sarah Prince died sept qtr 1865 aged 25 and Emmanuel remarried to Harriet Jenkins dec qtr 1868
I'd wondered if there was some split from his father but there's a death registered Cardiff for Emanuel Prince aged 60 in march qtr 1901 and he's living in Penarth on the 1891 census with Harriet and children.
I have a relative using his stepfather's name on one census although children's births are registered with their real surname. No idea why!
::)
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He was registered as Prince which may have needed both parents to be present at the registration. The birth cert would show for sure.
Sarah Prince died sept qtr 1865 aged 25 and Emmanuel remarried to Harriet Jenkins dec qtr 1868
I'd wondered if there was some split from his father but there's a death registered Cardiff for Emanuel Prince aged 60 in march qtr 1901 and he's living in Penarth on the 1891 census with Harriet and children.
I have a relative using his stepfather's name on one census although children's births are registered with their real surname. No idea why!
::)
Yeah I just discovered Emmanuel's second marriage. They're living together in 1871 at least, after Sarah died. I've had ancestors turfed out at young ages after their parent remarried.
I need to stop digging now because I told them I'd write up a little summary for tomorrow, but I'm only on one branch so far. It's quite refreshing having an entire new tree to build!
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The only name change like this in my tree was the consequence of a control freak's will, where the bequest was subject to continuing the name of the dead childless chap.
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The only name change like this in my tree was the consequence of a control freak's will, where the bequest was subject to continuing the name of the dead childless chap.
How...peculiar! I've nothing like it in my tree, which is why I was so confused when I came across this lot ;D