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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Neill Richard Potts on Friday 09 February 18 22:11 GMT (UK)
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This photograph is possibly of my 3rd great aunt Sara Ann Potts but I need a possible date for this photograph to be sure.
The lady is wearing a Suffragette belt & chain which I believe was worn circa 1840's? but this would mean the lady is possibly my 3rd great grandmother Jane Gray Potts as Sara Ann Potts was born 1839.
Both my great aunt and great grandmother lived in Beverley, East Yorkshire, England.
Many thanks in anticipation.
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https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/application/files/4914/5449/8603/suffragette-city-pocket-history.pdf
Leather restraining belt, made about 1840, used by Suffragettes around 1908
Belts like these had been originally made to restrain mentally ill patients. This one was
probably adapted by a blacksmith who would have added the shackles.
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I would say 1870s for this one Neill. I thought it was a chastity belt :-\
Carol
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Everything points to 1870s. Not sure what the belt was there for though.
Gadget
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Agree 1870's. Belts were not a common feature on women's wear apart from the late 60's.
The chain is made from wood & these were given as love tokens & usually worn around the neck.
She's elected to wear it on a leather belt for whatever reason.
It appears to have something on the end which looks suspiciously like an anchor.
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This photograph is continuing to intrigue my cousins who are researching the family Tree. We never noticed the anchor at the end of the chain before which may point to another member of the family .... my ancestors were mariners and ship sail, rope and canvas makers and my 3rd great grandfather married into a very prominent mariner family.
1. If the date of the photograph is 1870 would anyone be able to give an age for the young lady? I feel she would have been around 20 years of age? This would then give us a date of birth +/- 1850 which will help us track her down.
2. Does anyone know if the belt and chain was only worn as a sign of love ... and therefore she is displaying the anchor as a sign of her love/engagement to sailor? or can the wearing of the belt with chains and the anchor have also been a sign of a lost loved one at sea? I have to say that this option doesn't appear to be valid as the expression of the lady isn't one of sadness.
Many thanks.
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This doesn't necessarily have to be 1870 just sometime during that decade.
The cardstock itself might offer a clue as to which part but as the corners have been cut off we will need to see the back.
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Hi Jim
Many thanks for you kind reply.
Yes - sorry - I should have acknowledged that the date of 1870 will be approx +/- 10 years or thereabouts.
I'll see if my cousin has the original photo ... I'm in East Yorkshire, England and she's in Wellington, New Zealand so it'll be 1:30am there. I'll drop her a line and come back.
Would you know if the belt may have been worn as a sign of bareavement as well as a sign of love?
Many thanks again.
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Not 1870 +/- 10 years that would give a date range of 1860-80.
1870's & I suspect the earlier part of that decade.
Belts were not a symbol of anything.
In the late 1860's they did become a fashion accessory but in the main were worn for carrying items such as keys, purses etc.
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Been looking at some from my collection & came across this one which is very similar.
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Hi Neill....I don't think she is very old maybe late teens early 20s. Shame we can't see her wedding finger. It could be a 21st Birthday photo.
I gave it a bit of a clean for you.
Carol
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Hi Neill....I don't think she is very old maybe late teens early 20s. Shame we can't see her wedding finger. It could be a 21st Birthday photo.
I gave it a bit of a clean for you.
Carol
Many thanks for cleaning the photo up Carol ... I'm waiting for my cousin to get back to me as it's her photo and she's in New Zealand and I'm in the UK ... we 'chat' almost daily on the email so I may be able to provide more information shortly. I agree about early 20's ... I'm managing to narrow her down a bit more now. Neill
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Been looking at some from my collection & came across this one which is very similar.
Yes it is ... interesting that your lady has the chain up to her neck ... very strange these old trends for loved ones. Neill
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Not a lot of detail in the lady's hand but she may be wearing a ring on her wedding finger. Is this
perhaps why her hand is in a prominent position in this photo - almost obscuring the anchor.
Looking at marriages for the suggested time frame might give some clues.
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I wonder if it is a cross on the other end of the chain?
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Yes I see it too now Wiggy...there must be some significant to the cross and anchor but I can't think what.
Carol
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I don't know where this information came from, but in the back of my mind I have a recollection that among mid Victorian women, the wearing of a chain, along with keys, showed that you were either the housekeeper in a large house (the lady of the house would never demean herself by wearing such items) or that you were the mistress of your own house.
I think this may have come from my great grandmother who was cook and then housekeeper of a very large mansion in North Cumbria, but not sure.
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Would the housekeeper be wearing such very rich clothing? ( just asking ;) )
I can't see the anchor . . . I can see her clothing making two curved light patched around one end of her chain, but the other thing looks more like a crucifix to me. I bet I am wrong though. ;)
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Lovely restoration Carol, reveals the dress in all its glory. Fabric appears to be velvet with satin
trims at neck and sleeve, very opulent and suggests wealth. Her hair is elaborately dressed as well.
Apart from its obvious maritime connections an Anchor is a symbol for Hope, the Cross is a symbol
for Faith and the Heart a symbol for Charity. I have often seen these three grouped together
on charm bracelets and necklaces.
I feel in this photograph the anchor might signify a maritime connection. Unsure about the cross.
The chain appears to be 2 separate pieces as the dress is visible between the 2 pieces.
Jen.
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Would the housekeeper be wearing such very rich clothing? ( just asking ;) )
I can't see the anchor . . . I can see her clothing making two curved light patched around one end of her chain, but the other thing looks more like a crucifix to me. I bet I am wrong though. ;)
There is only the top of it visible Wiggy just above her thumb. The dress wouldn't have been cheap as it looks to be velvet.
Carol
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Lovely restoration Carol, reveals the dress in all its glory. Fabric appears to be velvet with satin
trims at neck and sleeve, very opulent and suggests wealth. Her hair is elaborately dressed as well.
Apart from its obvious maritime connections an Anchor is a symbol for Hope, the Cross is a symbol
for Faith and the Heart a symbol for Charity. I have often seen these three grouped together
on charm bracelets and necklaces.
I feel in this photograph the anchor might signify a maritime connection. Unsure about the cross.
The chain appears to be 2 separate pieces as the dress is visible between the 2 pieces.
Jen.
Thank you Jen....how nice of you to say, it's always good to get feedback.
I should have read your post before responding to Wiggy....yes I think we reached the same conclusion about the dress. Interesting comments about the accessories and food for though.
Carol
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There is only the top of it visible Wiggy just above her thumb. The dress wouldn't have been cheap as it looks to be velvet.
Carol
Ah yes - now I see it. Was looking in the wrong place. ::) :)
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Lovely restoration Carol, reveals the dress in all its glory. Fabric appears to be velvet with satin
trims at neck and sleeve, very opulent and suggests wealth. Her hair is elaborately dressed as well.
Apart from its obvious maritime connections an Anchor is a symbol for Hope, the Cross is a symbol
for Faith and the Heart a symbol for Charity. I have often seen these three grouped together
on charm bracelets and necklaces.
I feel in this photograph the anchor might signify a maritime connection. Unsure about the cross.
The chain appears to be 2 separate pieces as the dress is visible between the 2 pieces.
Jen.
Thank you Jen....how nice of you to say, it's always good to get feedback.
Carol
Beautiful restore as usual Carol - you always make a fabulous job but perhaps don't always receive the appreciation you so richly deserve. ;D
Sandra
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Aw thank you Sandra...how nice of you to say....feedback is always very much appreciated :-*
Carol
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I'm now wondering if this lady is my 3rd great aunt who was engaged but her fiancee was lost at sea. She was born 1844 so if she was 20 (ish) at the time of the photograph then this would make it around 1865 which roughly fit's in with the estimate date of 1870's. I've attached a copy of a photograph of her aged 50 when she married a widower - she had no children of her own.
There appears to be a good likeness between the photographs?
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To try and compare
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That's a big help. Thank you Rosie......
I feel there is a resemblance in the jaw width perhaps?
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Hi Neill....I don't think she is very old maybe late teens early 20s. Shame we can't see her wedding finger. It could be a 21st Birthday photo.
I gave it a bit of a clean for you.
Carol
Many thanks for cleaning the photo up Carol ... she looks beautiful.
I'm researching my family ancestry and it's my 2nd cousin who has this photograph and she lives in New Zealand (I'm in England) and I'm sure she'll be amazed at how good the photograph looks.
I wonder ... can anyone colour the photograph in the colours which they may been in 1870?
Can anyone recommend an easy to use colouring package to see if I can colour some of the other photographs we have?
Kind regards
Neill
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HI Neill...you could try "Gimp" which is free photo editing software...there are also youtube video tutorials to help you to get started.
Carol
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HI Neill...you could try "Gimp" which is free photo editing software...there are also youtube video tutorials to help you to get started.
Carol
Aw Bless you Carol. Been a Yorkshire man (Tyke) the word "Free" is music to my ears. ;D I've downloaded it and I'll have a bash. Thank you.
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You are welcome...being from the same area we most likely have the same ideals..."don't spend a penny where a halfpenny will do" ;D
Be warned...it is very addictive and your garden will become a jungle ;D ;D ;D
Carol