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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: huey1 on Saturday 10 February 18 22:08 GMT (UK)
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Hugh Kilpatrick b29dec1876 Lochwinnoch son of James Kilpatrick and Agnes Martin, married Isabella Mc Guire m/s Crawford 30dec1989 Lochwinnoch .Isabella was b12apr1881 Beith and died 23dec1951 Lochwinnoch (widow)she is listed as Bella on the 1911 census. Hugh is on the Valuation rolls in 1935 on Harvey Terrace .I have been unable to find his death.
They had 6 children James b17apr1899,David b02feb1901,Janet b12nov1903 all in Lochwinnoch then Isabella b13mar1907,Elizabeth b25feb1909 both in Cathcart and John b29may1916 Lochwinnoch
David married Jessie Orr 01jun1928 and died 26jun1971 Kilbirnie
Janet died 07aug1981 Shotts her death cert shows her as a widow surname Crane have been unable to find the marriage
Elizabeth married John Ritchie 11feb1948 KIlbirnie cant find her death
John married Mary Patterson 26apr1939 Paisley again cant find a death
have been unable to find any info on first son James
All of my research has been done on SP and as you see I have quite a few loose end so I am hoping someone can help clean them up
thanks for your help
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Hugh Kilpatrick b29dec1876 Lochwinnoch son of James Kilpatrick and Agnes Martin... Hugh is on the Valuation rolls in 1935 on Harvey Terrace .I have been unable to find his death...
Have you checked this death?
Hugh Kilpatrick aged 79. Death in 1955 in Mauchline Ayrshire.
Ref 604/ 63
Monica
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There are two death for potential children to Hugh and Isabella which you don't show:
Hugh KILPATRICK aged 77. Mother's surname MCGUIRE
Death in 1990 in Johnstone. Ref 644/ 66
Agnes Martin KILPATRICK aged 84. Mother's surname MCGUIRE
Death in 1998 in Johnstone. Ref 644/ 265
Monica
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Janet died 07aug1981 Shotts her death cert shows her as a widow surname Crane have been unable to find the marriage
A maybe?
Janet Davis KILPATRICK and James Kempton CRONE married in 1950 in Bridgeton Glasgow.
Ref 644/2 361
Monica
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Hi
I did see that death for Hugh in 1955 but the death notice in 1951 for Isabella states that she was a widow . The two additional children Hugh and Agnes look good will have to purchase the cert to find out and i passed over the marriage for Janet because there is no mention of Davis on her birth record and i don't see any connection to Davis again will have to purchase the cert
Thanks again for your help
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Let us know how you get on, huey1 :)
If the 1950 marriage for a Janet to James Crone is correct, it will be another verification of whether her father was alive or deceased...although from what you say, if wife Isabella is stated as widow in 1951 then it must be so.
Monica
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Hi
Have ordered the cert which should provide additional info ,I see a death in 1967 for James and a birth in 1899,if it is the correct Janet i'am wondering where the Davis name came from
Will keep you posted.
huey1
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Hi MonicaL
Found the birth for Agnes Martin Kilpatrick in 1914 things are looking good,thx for putting me on the right road
Huey1
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Hi Monical
Well I have been able to find some of the loose ends that I didn't have before,its all about turning over the correct rock but still not much further with finding Hugh's death.
There is a Hugh Kilpatrick listed on the 1935 Valuation Rolls on Harvey Crescent,he is still alive on the marriage cert of his son John in 1939 but he is deceased on the marriage cert of daughter Janet Davis in 1950 but I haven't been able to turn up anything for that period of time
The closest I have come for the death of his son James born 1899 is from CWGC in Lochwinnoch Cem -Pvt J Kilpatrick died 25sept 1918 age 19 3rd Bn Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders son of Hugh Kilpatrick 30 High St Lochwinnoch,the numbers and names are pretty close but on the margin of the Graves Registration Report by CWGC it states "father next of kin has gone to America" so I don't know if I have the correct family
The marriage for Janet Davis to James Kemton Crone in 1950 was good,i have found the death of John in 1993 and the two deaths that you found for Hugh and Agnes Martin were good , Hugh married Helen Stewart in 1951 and died 1990 Agnes died 1998 and was single
Do you know of any way to find who would be living with Hugh on High St at the time of his son James death in 1918 I might be able to tie the family together.
I have also emailed CWGC for more info on his death
Thx again for any help
Huey1
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Hi Monical
Well I have been able to find some of the loose ends that I didn't have before,its all about turning over the correct rock but still not much further with finding Hugh's death....
...The closest I have come for the death of his son James born 1899 is from CWGC in Lochwinnoch Cem -Pvt J Kilpatrick died 25sept 1918 age 19 3rd Bn Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders son of Hugh Kilpatrick 30 High St Lochwinnoch,the numbers and names are pretty close but on the margin of the Graves Registration Report by CWGC it states "father next of kin has gone to America" so I don't know if I have the correct family
Huey, you may have found your clue as to possible death for Hugh there. Possibility it was outside of the UK (maybe USA?). He certainly doesn't seem to show on Scotlands People does he.
Just found this reference for a Hugh Kilpatrick in an index for Detroit Border Crossings:
Hugh Kilpatrick, 50 and Scottish. Born c. 1876 in Lochwinch (as indexed) Scotland.
Arrival Details: 29 Mar 1926 at Detroit, Michigan, USA
Wife Isablle back in Scotland, address 30 High Street, Lochwinnoch.
A wood carver by occupation, he also shows as having been resident in Ontario Canada and arriving in the US to look for work.
Monica
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There is a shipping manifest entry for him leaving from Glasgow for Quebec Canada on 6 July 1923. His address is as per the Detroit crossing in 1926, 30 High Street Lochwinnoch. Similarly, also showing as a wood carver by trade and 46 years old that year.
His Canadian arrival papers confirm these details. States he had never been in Canada before. Claims he wants to live in Canada permanently and gives the address of a friend, a James Stewart in Toronto, as his Canadian contact.
Monica
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Just found Hugh's death in Ontario in 1945. He died of a coronary thrombosis. His brother Thomas reported his death. He is showing as living there for 20 years. I can't see any returns to the UK for him so far. Looking likely that he and Isabella may have lived apart all those years...
His parents' details are given brother Thomas correctely, James Kilpatrick and Agnes Martin.
A clip below:
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Hi Monica
Wow !!! What a great find it looks like we have the correct Hugh, his marriage cert has him as a carver and the address on High St fits with the info on his son James CWGC death , the only thing I see different is his birth 20apr1876 should read 29dec1876 ,I would guess that Thomas would have been in Canada also if he reported the death ? Hugh crossing at Detroit would have been from Windsor Ontario.
May I ask where you found the info on the Detroit Crossing and the shipping manifest maybe I can find more members of the family , would there be a date for his death in 1945 I don't see it on the form ?
again thanks very much for your help ,the journey continues
Huey
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I will send you more details via PM, huey :)
Monica
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Hi Monical
Have heard from CWGC about Pvt James Kilpatrick but they have no further details on his death, they suggest that because he was buried in Lochwinnoch his death would have been in the UK ,bodies of those killed in War were not brought back ,would you know of a local paper that may have an obit?
Still having trouble finding some info on the brothers and sisters of Hugh and Thomas and i'am thinking they may have gone to Canada also.
James b07mar1883 Johnstone
Helen b13mqr1885 Lochwinnoch
William b27jun1887 "
Sarah Ann b27nov1889 "
Thomas b14feb1892 "
I found a record for a Helen going to Halifax aboard the Laurentic Nov1912 age 27 and also one for Sarah Ann also going to Halifax aboard the Parisian Mar1913 age 23 with a notation "going to married sister " maybe Helen !!!!
I see Sarah and Thomas along with younger bros David ,Martin and Parents James and Agnes on the 1901 census Hugh is already married in 1898 I may have found William as a visitor with the Love family in 1901 its the only William in Lochwinnoch, then only David and Martin are with the parents in 1911 but I have been unable to come up with any deaths or marriages on SP ,will keep on going thanks for any additional help
Hughie
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The closest I have come for the death of his son James born 1899 is from CWGC in Lochwinnoch Cem -Pvt J Kilpatrick died 25sept 1918 age 19 3rd Bn Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders son of Hugh Kilpatrick 30 High St Lochwinnoch,the numbers and names are pretty close but on the margin of the Graves Registration Report by CWGC it states "father next of kin has gone to America" so I don't know if I have the correct family
Huey, I think the Lochwinnoch Cemetery ref is a commemoration to the fallen of the area www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results/?cemetery=LOCHWINNOCH%20CEMETERY
From the database 'Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects', there is this index entry for him:
James Kilpatrick
Death Date: 25 Sep 1918
Death Place: Central Military Hospt Cork
Rank: Private
Regiment: Princess Louise's (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders)
Regimental Number: S/29322
Monica
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I found a record for a Helen going to Halifax aboard the Laurentic Nov1912 age 27 and also one for Sarah Ann also going to Halifax aboard the Parisian Mar1913 age 23 with a notation "going to married sister " maybe Helen !!!!
There is an entry for Helen's arrival in Canada in 1920. She shows as still single and gives her married sister as her contact. Not sure on the first letter for her first name. Maybe S? She gives her mother Agnes' details back in Lochwinnoch as her Scottish contact.
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Brother Thomas' Canadian arrival card is more helpful :) Married sister in Montreal looks to be Sarah, showing as Mrs Sarah Hirst on Thomas' card:
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And...let's not forget Martin! From 1923:
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From online trees, George Hurst was from Bolton England and arrived in Canada in 1910. The marriage to Sarah Ann Kilpatrick is showing as having taken place on October 28, 1919 in Montreal. They went on to have at least 5 children.
Sarah Ann's death is listed as being on 8 Dec 1960 at Greenfield Park, Quebec.
Other connected trees show sister Helen as having married a Fred Burnie (may have been born in Aberdeenshire c. 1880) and having died in Aug 1972 in Brooklyn, Kings, New York. Did Helen have a daughter (Agnes/Nancy Kilpatrick) born on 23 Sept 1905 in Lochwinnoch? She shows as having died in Brooklyn too, on 20 Feb 1983.
Monica
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Hi Monica
Wow again!! thank you ,thank you , thank you
There are so many Kilpatrick's with same names my head is spinning some time trying to find info.
The married sister that is mentioned on Helen's form would have to be Sarah ,Helen did have a illegitimate daughter Agnes born 1905 Lochwinnoch Sarah ,Helen and daughter Agnes are on the 1911 census . On the 1901 census Helen is living with older sister Eliz.and her husband David Mcginigle ,after David's death in 1908 Eliz married Andrew Whyte in 1914 it must be Eliz that is on Thomas 's form as Mrs A White.I don't see a Scottish marriage for Helen to Fred Burnie so they must have been married in Canada after 1920
Martin married Isabella Mc Christie Mc Leod 1922 in Beith she died JUn 1961 Beith so he must have left her for Canada as did his older brother Hugh.On Isabella 's death cert it looks lika a M Kilpatrick -widower- signed as witness/informant -present - so he must have returned at some point
It looks like Sarah would have left for Canada between 1911 and 1919 when she married George Hurst.
A small coincidence about Sarah 's 1960 death in Greenfield Park which is a suburb of Montreal
When I came to Canada with my parents and sister in 1952 we stayed with my uncle in this same town till 1955.I must try to find some info about this period , it was a very small place she may have been living close by , woudnt that be something to discover !!! Hope I have everything straight .
thanks once again ,I look forward to any additional and will keep you posted
Hughie
Hughie
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What a co-incidence that you were in the same town just a few years before Sarah Ann's death shows there!
This looks to be George and Sarah and first born James in the Canadian 1921 census - first entry of the two there:
www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1921/Pages/results.aspx?k=cnsSurname%3a%22hurst%22+AND+cnsGivenName%3a%22george%22+AND+cnsAge%3a%2228%22
Their marriage certain looks to be as we had already in 1919 as I have just found the image from the register for it.
Entry also for Helen I think in the same area http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e003104396
Monica
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There is so much on the family in Cananda and the US, Hughie :)
From Family Search (just log on to view):
Helen - 1930 US Census https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X42G-JQ8
Helen - 1940 US Census https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQTF-6K1
Can't see any ref to a marriage so far to a Fred Burnie...
Her daughter, Helen Jnr also headed off firstly to Canada with Uncle David in 1919. Went back to Scotland and then returned in 1921. Mum Helen paid for her passage. She travelled with an Agnes McGonigel (cousin).
She headed off to Brooklyn NY and there in 1924 married Edward Roger Kelly (Agnes McG was one of the witnesses). Husband Edward died in 1951 and she remarried a John Lennon in 1956. She then died, as we had, in Brookly in 1983.
Agnes/Nancy in the 1930 NY census https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X76R-5WJ
Agnes/Nancy in the 1940 NY census https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQM7-Y1L
Her SSDI entry:
Name Nancy Lennon
SSN 096-18-0073
Last Residence Brooklyn, 11238, Kings, New York, USA
Born 23 Sep 1905
Died Feb 1983
And for mum, Helen Snr, her SSDI details:
Name Helen Kilpatrick
SSN 089-26-2427
Last Residence Brooklyn, 11220, Kings, New York, USA
Born 13 Mar 1885
Died Aug 1972
State (Year) SSN issued New York - 1951
Monica
PS: So who is left back in Scotland now? Elizabeth and Agnes? James and William we still do not know much about do we?
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Just a thought...
Fred Burnie could possibly have been Helen Jnr.'s reputed father (and no marriage)?
He shows in Lochwinnoch in 1901:
George Bernie 42 Navvy (foreman) b. Longside Aberdeen
June Bernie 40
Fred Bernie 20 Navvy b. Boddan, Aberdeenshire
Andrew Bernie 17
Janet Bernie 9
Address: Hut Harvey Terrace, Lochwinnoch
Would explain why Helen was showing as single in her 1940 census entry and her death registered in her maiden surname.
Monica
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Hi
Interesting note about Fred Burnie !!I think that James and William are the only one that are missing
There is a war death on SP for a William killied in action 1917 in Egypt have to follow up on that,1901 census shows a William as a visitor with the Love family on Little cloak St in Lochwinnoch any idea if that is anywhere near the rest of the Kilpatrick 's on Calder
Hughie
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Hughie
Not sure if the 1917 death you mention in Egypt is for the correct William. See www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?initial=w&lastName=kilpatrick&war=1
Regarding proximity of Calder Street to Little Cloak, can't imagine they were far away. I don't know the area and can't easily see maps of that time to help us further here.
Also, I think Little Cloak may have been a farm? William Love showed as a farmer didn't he? See:
OS1/26/16/76 LITTLE CLOAK - A farm house & outbuildings. It is the property of Mr. Barbour, and occupied by Robert Walker.
This showed much earlier (1856-57) here https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/renfrewshire-os-name-books-1856-1857/renfrewshire-volume-16?display=transcription
Monica
Added: Just checked the 1905 Valuation Roll and yes it was a farm, tenanted still by William Love.
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Here is a novel idea....how about if William also headed off to Canada ;)
Can't easily see anything for him so far in Scotland. There is a manifest entry for a William Kilpatrick arriving in Quebec in 1906 in aged 19. His origin in Scotland is showing as Renfrewshire.
I can't make out his occupation as image not great.
Monica
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Hi monical
root chat Canada board have been able to find an Obit for Sarah Anna Hurst in 1960 age 71, there is mention of 4 children ,Mrs E G Snow (Peggy) ,Mrs George Berry (Helen) Betty and George but not mention of James that was found on the 1921 Canada census .
She live on Springfield Ave which is a cross street of King Edward where I lived with my uncle ,I probably walk pass her house without knowing I had family there
Still no contact from any of the trees,will keep looking
Hughie
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Amazing that you lived so close to each other and didn't know it!
Just seen the Canadian post. Always good to have a little more.
Monica
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Hi Monica
haven't been doing much work on the family lately but while browsing through the info on Pvt James Kilpatrick who you found had died at the Central Military Hosp. in Cork 1918 I was wondering if there is a way to find the cause of death , I.E did he see any action and was wounded ? or some other reason thx
BTW no comeback from any of the Family Trees
Hughie
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Hi Hughie
Have a look here for his death registration. His entry shows on pg 1 - www.rootschat.com/links/01m4p/
If link to page below doesn't work, this is what came up from my search
Name JAMES KILPATRICK
Year of Death 1918
Group Registration ID 5645511
SR District/Reg Area Cork
Deceased Age at Death19
Image(s) 1 2 3
See https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
A clip below from his entry showing his cause of death. I have before tried to find service papers for him but have not found anything to date.
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Hi
Thanks for that ,I Googled those two causes of death , pretty painfull way to die !
Hughie