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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Mike Thw on Sunday 11 February 18 15:48 GMT (UK)
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In 1851 I have Phillip with his maternal grand-parents at Piece: 2455; Folio: 355; Page: 4; A journeyman plasterer.
I can't find him in 1841 (might be recorded as John James) and I loose him in 1861 and 1871. He turns up (as a retired plasterer) in 1881 married to a Harriet Evans.
I've no idea who his parents are! But mainly I'd like to locate in in the missing censuses.
A fresh pair of eyes please.
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In 1851 I have Phillip with his maternal grand-parents at Piece: 2455; Folio: 355; Page: 4; A journeyman plasterer.
So we know who the grandparents were
David James 63 Journeyman Plasterer bn Penmark, Glamorganshire
Margaret James 72 bn Coity, Glamorganshire
How do you know they are the maternal grandparents :-\
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Marriage Dec qtr 1876
Evans Harriett
James Philip John
Cardiff 11a 387
Marriage gives his father as James James occ Gentleman ???
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If they were maternal they would have a different surname to him - unless he was illegitimate.
Have you got details of his marriage to Harriet?
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There is an 1841 entry for a Philip James born 1837 living in Glamorgan with parents Philip and Ann
A copy of the marriage cert to Harriet will confirm if his father was Philip
EDIT
Just seen marriage details above
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Hi they married 2nd November 1876 Penarth, Philip John James 42 a Gentleman of St Mary the Virgin, Cardiff Father James James occ Gentleman
Harriet Evans 42 of Penarth Father John Evans
Keyboard86
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Where does he fit into your FH as that info can sometimes help find more info
I find it strange that his occ on the 1876 marriage cert is so different to the census entries
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Maybe he upped himself on the marriage certificate by saying he was a gentleman instead of a humble plasterer :-\
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....and invented a father also a gentleman ;D
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There is a legal notice in the South Wales Daily News 16 October 1876 regarding James James (gentleman) late of Rowlands Buidings, Cardiff. Philip John James is the executor of the will.
Perhaps this is the Philip John James who married in 1876.
JJ
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Any indication if he was single or widowed in 1876?
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Don't honestly know what to make of the marriage info. Never come across a James James "Gentleman".
I know most of the males in the James family were plasterers and I assumed ( ::)) that he was illegitimate, but could be so wrong.
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Any indication if he was single or widowed in 1876?
No indication on the article ???
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Who do you think his mother was if he was illegitimate? Presumably a daughter of the grandparents he is with.
Have you found the grandparents in 1841 to see if an unmarried daughter is with them?
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Any indication if he was single or widowed in 1876?
He was a bachelor age 42 abode St Mary the Virgin, Cardiff
witnesses Edward Evans & ...Harriet Vaughan
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The only daughter I've got is an Ann (1821).
She married in 1840 and Phillip is not with her.
His Grand-parents, David (c 1788) and Margaret (c 1779) are also missing from 1841 ???
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The wedding notice records Philip John James to be the only son of the late Mr James James.
JJ
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I think we have two different families.
1841 there is a
David James 52
Margaret James 58
Ann James 20
in 1861 David James 74 is father in law to Ann Ross 40
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On the will for James James (died 31 July 1875) his occupation is recorded as plasterer :)
Philip John James, executor is recorded as gentleman of 29 Alice Street, Cardiff.
JJ
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There is a legal notice in the South Wales Daily News 16 October 1876 regarding James James (gentleman) late of Rowlands Buidings, Cardiff. Philip John James is the executor of the will.
Perhaps this is the Philip John James who married in 1876.
JJ
Wondering if he was the James James who was buried 4th August 1875 Cardiff St John aged 63 address North Street as their is a James James 60 occ Freeholder with wife Jane with a Mary Rowland 57 in 1871 census at that address?
Keyboard86
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1861 -
Christina Rowland head wid 80 b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
Mary Rowland dau 51 b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
Jane J James dau 50
James James son in law 51 b. Cardiff
RG09 Piece 4031 Folio 49 Page 24, North Street
JJ
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There is a legal notice in the South Wales Daily News 16 October 1876 regarding James James (gentleman) late of Rowlands Buidings, Cardiff. Philip John James is the executor of the will.
Perhaps this is the Philip John James who married in 1876.
JJ
Wondering if he was the James James who was buried 4th August 1875 Cardiff St John aged 63 address North Street as their is a James James 60 occ Freeholder with wife Jane with a Mary Rowland 57 in 1871 census at that address?
Keyboard86
In 1861 he is at RG09/4031 f49 p24 occ Builder - living with mother in law Christina Rowland age 80
1851 Jane is with her mother but no James
HO107/2455 f83 p60
Christian Rowlands occ Proprietor Of Houses
1841 Jane is single living with mother & sister Mary
HO107 /1425 bk1 f17 p28
Marriage Jun qtr 1845
James James
Rowland Jane
Cardiff 26 679
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In 1851 Jane James is living with her mother at North Street but no James.
In 1841 Jane is with her mother with surname Rowland.
Jane Rowland marriage -
q2 1845, Cardiff
Vol 26 Page 679
On the same page is James James.
Perhaps James James' first wife died who was the mother of Philip John James. James went on to marry Jane but Philip then went to live with his grandparents. Just a thought :) :)
JJ
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Whoops, apologies Rosie didn't pick up that you'd already posted similar thoughts.
JJ
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It is good to see we are on the same track ;D
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Is this his death entry?
Philip John James age 49 Jun 1884 Cardiff Glamorganshire Volume: 11a Page: 190
South Wales Daily News
1884 June 26 at 17 Stanwell Road Penarth
Phillip John James age 49 years.
The funeral will take place at Penarth Church Tuesday next at 2.30pm.
Friends will please accept this intimation
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James James
Baptised 24 June 1810 at Penmark
Parents David & Margaret
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James James
Baptised 24 June 1810 at Penmark
Parents David & Margaret
That looks a good find!
JJ
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On the will for James James (died 31 July 1875) his occupation is recorded as plasterer :)
Philip John James, executor is recorded as gentleman of 29 Alice Street, Cardiff.
JJ
At this address in 1871 census was a Thomas Davis/Davies 40
Ann 38
Philip T 15
Rowland J 11
Albert J 9
James J 4
Philip Thomas Davies b Dec qtr 1855 Cardiff mmn James
Rowland James Davies March qtr 1860 Cardiff mmn James
Keyboard86
EDIT Thomas Davies possibly married Ann James Sept qtr 1852 Cardiff 11a 350.
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Hi all possibly the Ann above in 1851 census:-
James James 40 Married occ Journeyman Plasterer
Ann 17
Mary 14
William Lloyd 40 Visitor
Residing at 8, Mary Ann Street, St Mary, Cardiff
Census ref HO107/2455/354/3
Odd as that same family are at the same address in 1841:-
James James 30 occ Plasterer
Ann 9
Mary Ann 5
Census ref HO107/1425/ 2/24 / 43
Their is a marriage by licence 21st March 1832 Cardiff, St John of a James James to an Ann Williams?
Keyboard86
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Milliepede - have you a reference number for the 1841 census for David/Margaret/Ann.
I'm struggling to find them on Ancestry!
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Coincidence? ;D
1851: James James lives at 6 St Mary Ann St, Cardiff; possible sister Ann (Ross) at 7; possible father David at 13.
And in 1841 probable brother David (b 1816) also lived on Mary Ann St. (Moved to Duke St in 1851).
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In 1861 James James' occupation is recorded as ?? Any ideas? I'd like to think it was "Plasterer" but .......
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Builder :-\
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Mmmmmm :)
Possibly gone up in the World.
Thanks Rosie
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Milliepede - have you a reference number for the 1841 census for David/Margaret/Ann.
I'm struggling to find them on Ancestry!
Heavens I can't find it again either! Am looking as we speak.
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Which reference is it HO107/1446/25
piece 1446
book 25
folio 21
page 1