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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Jaznjjj on Wednesday 14 February 18 07:54 GMT (UK)
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I have found the location of Queen's Row, London, on an 18th century map very near (south of) the Queen's Palace. It looks like Queen's Row was located at or near where the Royal Mews are now. There is a modern-day Queen's Row near Camberwell Road. I would appreciate some guidance please to find out more about the historic Queen's Row, particularly in the early 19th century. J
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Do you know about the Charles Booth maps?
Try searching "historic London poverty maps".
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Thank you. I had a look. In 1775 it was Queens Row. In 1898 according to Booth it was a section of the road named Buckingham Palace Road (between Princes Row and Palace Street) shown in the key as being "middle class/well to do". I have a reference in 1821 of someone living in Queen's Row so the name change would have occurred some time after 1821. J
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....... after 1821......
Do the census returns give you anything?
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Hadn't considered those - this is a very new exploration. The subject died in 1821 aged 50 but census returns may help with other family members - though a lot could change in families in the 20 years leading up to the 1841 census. It would certainly help identify when the name of the Row changed. J
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Is it definitely the one in Pimlico that you are interested in? Lockie's Topography of London (1810) lists 10 locations named Queen's Row https://goo.gl/qqTwib
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1841 Directory listings
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The newspapers reported 3 deaths in Queen's Row in 1821 - two in "Queen's Row, Walworth" the other "Queen's Row, Buckingham Gate" (the "Pimlico" site) .
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This is the 1775 map you referred to?
URL deleted (unsafe link). I posted the 1775 Bowles map.
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Thank you Shaun, The 1841 was a no-show for the family in which I was interested, but it did give me an idea of the number of residences/businesses along the row. Would the numbers have been on just one side of the street? That's how I interpret the word row. I notice some gaps in the numbers. This might mean unoccupied or if one had to subscribe to the directories - perhaps some chose not to pay. There was also some doubling-up which would seem to indicate sub-divided properties.
The Lockie's topography looks like an excellent source of information and I'll have to drill down to find out about Queen's Row. Many of the references appear to lead to Pimlico but I'll need to sort them out. I have no guarantees of which Queen's Row is the appropriate one - but I'll have a look at a map showing where the subject was buried in 1821 which might help.
I'm not local (Australia) so not familiar with the London geography. Thank you for all your help. J
Have just seen the posts from hanes teulu. I'll have to check out those newspaper entries. The subject was buried at Islington, St. James, Pentonville. Haven't had a chance to check maps yet.
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Yes, it was the Bowles map I was referring to. I had to sit and compare it with a modern day map and sort out where Queen's Row had been before apparently becoming a section of Buckingham Palace Road.
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The subject was buried at Islington, St. James, Pentonville
Isn't the Queen's Row in Pentonville a more likely abode than Pimlico in that case?
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Are you willing to provide the person’s name? It would be easier to help you find which Queen’s Row he or she was associated with.
It is far from obvious why anyone from Pimlico would be buried at Pentonville.
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The subject was buried at Islington, St. James, Pentonville
Isn't the Queen's Row in Pentonville a more likely abode than Pimlico in that case?
Agreed.
Just confirmed the 1821 death at Queen's Row, Buckingham Gate, was a 27 year old (original post mentions 50).
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It's Mary Moir, presumably
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The name of the party was Mary Moir who was buried on the 8th November, 1821. Not held back for any reason other than that I was focused on the locality. I will be trying to find out whether Mary is the wife of Henry Moir, compositor, later resident at Bream's Buildings. If she is that Mary Moir, she married Henry at St.Dunstan in the West, had one child baptized there in 1804 and another baptized at the Sardinian Chapel (Lincoln's Fields) in 1808.
I am quite prepared if this is not the Mary Moir I am seeking - but will be quite satisfied to have learned something new along the way.
J
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That's interesting. I have a copy of the original burial entry for Mary Moir at Islington, St. James, Pentonville on the 8th November, 1821 and it definitely says 50 years. 27 years old in 1821 means born 1894 so too young to have a child in 1804. I wonder whether there is an error in the newspaper entry?
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The newspaper entry is someone else entirely. A Robert Webster. You hadn't told us about Mary Moir at that stage. Or Pentonville.
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I apologise if I've appeared reticent but I hadn't wished to impose beyond the question of geography. It seems that you are very willing to go further on my behalf and all I can do is thank you for it.
So here's the story: Henry Moir (junior) was a bad apple who got himself into trouble and ended up transported to Australia in 1824. His father, Henry Moir Snr. was hospitalised at St. Bart's at that time and that's the subject of another thread. We have been trying to track down young Henry's mother, whose maiden name was Mary Errol. Married at St. Dunstan's in the West 10th September, 1804 and had her first (known) child, John Milton Moir, on the 29th November that same year. Nothing is known about John Milton Moir subsequent to his birth and baptism. Young Henry was baptised on 15th December, 1808 at the Sardinian Chapel in Lincoln Fields. Henry Moir Snr. was a compositor according to his son's death certificate. Only known abode Bream's Buildings.
The Mary Moir at Queen's Row was worth checking out - but it is not in a cluster with the other places we have identified as being connected with the family.
I will probably have to abandon ship at this stage as it is approaching midnight here but I'll certainly check the thread again in the morningl
Again, thank you. J
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I hadn't wished to impose beyond the question of geography. It seems that you are very willing to go further on my behalf and all I can do is thank you for it.
It was just a question of checking the facts from the context. Once we knew the burial details it became clear that you were researching the wrong Queen's Row.
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Here are some more addresses to interest you:
Moir, Henry, formerly of John-Street, West Smithfield, Newsvendor, and late of Mais-Place, Fetter-Lane; both in London, Printer.
Gazette, 13 January 1824
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/17992/page/77
I think Henry junior was a "news carrier" ? It seems to fit.
ADDED: Henry junior was arrested in Bartholomew Close - right by Barts Hospital, in Smithfield.
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Henry Jnr's prison record (FindMyPast) has birth place as "Chancery Lane".
If you have access to old London maps ("Mapco") check Darton's 1817 map (select grid/box 3 on top line). That location now looks to be the east end of Pentonville Road.
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Bream's Buildings were/are in Chancery Lane in the City - between Fleet Street and Holborn. Bottom left in this section of Darton's map: http://mapco.net/darton1817/darton08b.htm
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Bream’s Buildings (which is a small street) is very much still there - just off Chancery Lane.
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Henry Jnr's prison record (FindMyPast) has birth place as "Chancery Lane".
If you have access to old London maps ("Mapco") check Darton's 1817 map (select grid/box 3 on top line). That location now looks to be the east end of Pentonville Road.
Rereading post I realise my reference to "That location ...." appears to refer to "Chancery Lane". It in fact refers to "Queen's Row" - apologies.
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I found this.....
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Thank you. I only just found your posts when I revisited the thread. Email notification didn't appear to have happened. There are some excellent clues for me to follow up. Particularly interesting is the reference to Henry Moir in 1824 as a news vendor (complete with addresses!) Henry's son's death certificate shows his occupation as a compositor. Lovely image of Bream's buildings! My thanks again. J