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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: robert g shaw on Wednesday 14 February 18 13:41 GMT (UK)

Title: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Wednesday 14 February 18 13:41 GMT (UK)
hi

theres a conflict regarding jonathon / johnathon finney 1678-1734 of ellastone.

there are loads of family trees on ancestry that say he married either ann finney or ann walker in 1694 at ellastone - when he was 16! to top that odd set of records, (unclear whether he married ann waker or finney but ann walkers father supposed to be william finney) .

now all those trees have his first born as being john in 1708 (who only lived a year). after that there was a steady string of children born.

now the only marriage i can find, is to ann heath in 1707 (he is also credited with marrying ann heath in 1694) . that record states he lives in ellastone.

i dont understand why so many family trees state that he married ann someone in 1694 when he was 16, then had no children for 13 years!!! when theres a far more sensible marriage to ann heath a year before their first child was born.

surely these trees are wrong arent they?
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 14 February 18 13:45 GMT (UK)

i dont understand why so many family trees state that he married ann someone in 1694 when he was 16, then had no children for 13 years!!! when theres a far more sensible marriage to ann heath a year before their first child was born.

surely these trees are wrong arent they?

Probably because online trees are regularly just copied over from another tree without checking. If the information is wrong on the first tree it is copied regardless  ::)

Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Wednesday 14 February 18 15:08 GMT (UK)

i dont understand why so many family trees state that he married ann someone in 1694 when he was 16, then had no children for 13 years!!! when theres a far more sensible marriage to ann heath a year before their first child was born.

surely these trees are wrong arent they?


well yes thats obvious, i just dont know why no one appears to have checked it and the more likely version isnt being used by anyone.
Probably because online trees are regularly just copied over from another tree without checking. If the information is wrong on the first tree it is copied regardless  ::)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 15 February 18 11:14 GMT (UK)
Have you seen the actual record for Jonathans 1734 Burial as on FreeREG it has no age?

From what I can see both Johns died young;
Baptisms/Burials;
JOHN Finney 28 Jan 1707/8, buried 31 Jan 1707/8, Son of Jonathan/Anne
JOHN Finney  28 Jun 1709, buried 27 Aug 1717, Son of Jonath./Ann Finny

So I cant see how either of them married Mary Mountford 1728 in Leek as Trees have?

Record for 1728 Leek Marriage has John of Cawley, Alstonfield** Parish.
Married by License.

This JOHN/MARY appear to have Baptised children St Peter, Alstonfield;
MARY 29 Jun 1731
JOHN 02 Apr 1733
Abode is Cawlo

Trish :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 15 February 18 11:37 GMT (UK)
Looks to me that the only children who survived childhood were,
Samuel 21 Mar 1711/2, buried 02 Dec 1788 Ellastone age 76
George 27 Nov 1715
WM 04 Dec 1718, likely married Anne SALT  26 Feb 1742/43 Kingsley
Thomas 22 May 1721, likely married Margaret CHARLWORTH 06 Jul 1745 Ellastone

Also William Finney was buried 4 Nov 1781 and not 1791 as a Tree states.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 15 February 18 11:38 GMT (UK)
I do agree with you that the 8 June 1707, Hanbury, Stafford Marriage is the more likely one for Jonathan.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Thursday 15 February 18 13:28 GMT (UK)
Have you seen the actual record for Jonathans 1734 Burial as on FreeREG it has no age?

From what I can see both Johns died young;
Baptisms/Burials;
JOHN Finney 28 Jan 1707/8, buried 31 Jan 1707/8, Son of Jonathan/Anne
JOHN Finney  28 Jun 1709, buried 27 Aug 1717, Son of Jonath./Ann Finny

So I cant see how either of them married Mary Mountford 1728 in Leek as Trees have?

Record for 1728 Leek Marriage has John of Cawley, Alstonfield** Parish.
Married by License.

This JOHN/MARY appear to have Baptised children St Peter, Alstonfield;
MARY 29 Jun 1731
JOHN 02 Apr 1733
Abode is Cawlo

Trish :)

hi

yeah i can go with that. so whether the johns lived long or not doesnt effect me :)

but its william 1718 son of johnathon1678  son of william 1636 im interested in because they are my direct line.
i agree that william 1718 married ann salt.

yeah thats for that (johnathon/ann heath 1707). to me its quite obvious, im just bewhildered as to why so many others just blindly copied eachother without noticing the clear error.

and on the subject of 'finney marrying ann' , william 1636 married an ann. those trees say at ellastone in 1665. but they cant decide if he married ann williams or ann finney...but both contenders have william finney and mary bateman as her parents!

i know that 'my' johnathons parents were william and ann, i believe their first child was sarah born in 1666 at ellastone.

but the info on these trees is confusing, and in this case has william marrying ann twice, in 1665 and 1668 ! so which is it? i can find no record of this marriage, i can only guess that it was soon before sarah was christened in 1666.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Thursday 15 February 18 13:32 GMT (UK)


Also William Finney was buried 4 Nov 1781 and not 1791 as a Tree states.

yep you are correct :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Friday 16 February 18 09:18 GMT (UK)
theres another discrepancy regarding william 1636.

his church record of his baptism refers to him as 'the son of raphe and his wife ann' . but according to those trees and indeed online records - raphe didnt marry until 1640 in leek.

so either raphe married an ann before 1636 and she died before raphe re-married an ann in 1640. or the marriage in 1640 isnt the raphe and ann who lived at ellestone and had further children there.

to me, it seems unlikely that ann 1640 was williams 1636's mother.

this matters to me because i know that william is my direct ancestor.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 16 February 18 12:19 GMT (UK)
Have you actually established Jonathan is the Son of William/Ann?

Going this far back in Family Trees has too many variables to be certain of anything.

You quote Jonathan as 1678-1734

I agree there is a 1734 Burial but no age is shown.

There is a JOHN Baptised 30 Sep 1673 to a William/Ann.
If this is Jonathan then he would be 34 when he married 1707.

William/Ann also Bapt;
SARAH 1 Mar 1665/6
ANN 12 Jul 1668
JOHN as noted.
MARGARET 16 Dec 1680
ELIZABETH 24 Sep 1683

And I agree there is a WILLIAM 10 Oct 1636 Father RAPH, no Mother noted on FreeREG

There is a ANNA 19 Oct 1635 Leek to Ralphe/Anne, abode Bradnop
+ ELLEN 18 Jun 1637 Leek, Father Ralph

There are several Ralphs around in that time frame and one married Margery SANT 8 October 1640   Leek.

Sorry in my opinion there is not enough evidence  to go back this far to be conclusive that you have the right line.

I personally have only gone back with line name in my Tree to the early 1600's and that is because I have detailed evidence christenings/marriages/all children born to the couples to establish right time for marriage, wills etc.

All ny other English lines I have been happy to get back to the mid 1750's.

Dont get me started on the Irish ones!

Anyhow I cant add anything else so this is my last entry on this query.

Trish :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Friday 16 February 18 13:28 GMT (UK)
Have you actually established Jonathan is the Son of William/Ann?

Going this far back in Family Trees has too many variables to be certain of anything.

You quote Jonathan as 1678-1734

I agree there is a 1734 Burial but no age is shown.

There is a JOHN Baptised 30 Sep 1673 to a William/Ann.
If this is Jonathan then he would be 34 when he married 1707.

William/Ann also Bapt;
SARAH 1 Mar 1665/6
ANN 12 Jul 1668
JOHN as noted.
MARGARET 16 Dec 1680
ELIZABETH 24 Sep 1683

And I agree there is a WILLIAM 10 Oct 1636 Father RAPH, no Mother noted on FreeREG

There is a ANNA 19 Oct 1635 Leek to Ralphe/Anne, abode Bradnop
+ ELLEN 18 Jun 1637 Leek, Father Ralph

There are several Ralphs around in that time frame and one married Margery SANT 8 October 1640   Leek.

Sorry in my opinion there is not enough evidence  to go back this far to be conclusive that you have the right line.

I personally have only gone back with line name in my Tree to the early 1600's and that is because I have detailed evidence christenings/marriages/all children born to the couples to establish right time for marriage, wills etc.

All ny other English lines I have been happy to get back to the mid 1750's.

Dont get me started on the Irish ones!

Anyhow I cant add anything else so this is my last entry on this query.

Trish :)

hi trish :)

yes, there was certainly a johnathon/jonathon baptised in ellastone in 1678 with a father william. that birth fits the regular pattern with those others mentioned, so im pretty certain this is correct.

the johnathon who married ann heath in 1707 at hanbury/marchington (not far from ellastone) was residing at 'ellison' which is clearly a mis-spelling of ellaston.

yes you are right about william 1636 not having a mother named, the transcript says 'william son of raph and his wife' ..... that strongly suggests to me that raph was married when william was baptised, meaning that she either died and raph remarried an 'ann' in 1640, or that the 1640 marriage was not williams father raph.

but. tbh, im happy with the timeline back to thomas 1528. of course it cannot be proven with certainty, but the dates fit known christenings with parent/s identified.

theres no other info on the 1640 marriage except it was between raph and margery at leek.

bradnop is on the ellastone side of leek..

thanks for your comments anyway :)

so he was either 16, with no corroborating evidence, or he was 29 with corroborating evidence.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 17 February 18 04:31 GMT (UK)
Gosh I must say I made some mistakes in my last posting!
My excuse is that it was late here in OZ!
I meant I have only 1 Family line (the Nettlems) I have gone back with to the early 1600's and I have lots of evidence on.

I also find it unusual that later Finney lines did not name a Son Ralph.

I would also if I was you look at where Anna 1635/Ellen 1637 married if they survived childhood.
Also where Ralph died.

Its your Family line so its up to you with what you believe to be correct.

Cheers,
Trish :)

Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Saturday 17 February 18 08:25 GMT (UK)
Gosh I must say I made some mistakes in my last posting!
My excuse is that it was late here in OZ!
I meant I have only 1 Family line (the Nettlems) I have gone back with to the early 1600's and I have lots of evidence on.

I also find it unusual that later Finney lines did not name a Son Ralph.

I would also if I was you look at where Anna 1635/Ellen 1637 married if they survived childhood.
Also where Ralph died.

Its your Family line so its up to you with what you believe to be correct.

Cheers,
Trish :)

im not concerned about the dropping of ralph, as i see it, its fashion as other names are being used like george. its not like there are many/any ralphs anywhere else in the 1700's.

im not sure if theres any further info available. im pretty happy with the male line which i think is likely to be correct, itll probably never be certain. ellastone is only a small hamlet. :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Sunday 18 February 18 17:01 GMT (UK)
Jonathan Finney 1678 - 1734 is on my family tree and married Anne Heath. Though I do not have an actual marriage record. On the will admin for Jonathan Finney (probate 14 Nov 1734) there is the bottom section where the goods etc. are signed over to Ann. Of the signatories at the bottom are Hen[ry] Heath and John Heath. A search of the parish records shows that Richard Heath & Ann Langford had three children (amongst others) HENRY bap 21 Sept 1676, ANN bap 2 Oct 1679, and JOHN bap 17 May 1683 (all in Ellastone). I believe the signatories to be Ann's brothers and that Ann herself was the wife of Jonathan Finney.
I would actually be very interested in the marriage record to Ann Heath. Did this take place in Ellestone? I don't have it in my records.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Sunday 18 February 18 17:18 GMT (UK)
Jonathan & Ann had five children according to my research John 1709-1717, Samuel 1712- 1788 (it was his son by Jane who met Jean-Jacques Rousseau when he stayed at Wootton Hall), George 1715-1750, William 1718-1791, and Thomas 1721-1790. Which line is yours?

Also re: the wife of Raphe Finney Having studied the Parish records I have come to the conclusion that this Raphe Finney did not marry Margery Sant in leek as previously thought. That Margery was almost certainly the wife of Ralph Finney of White Lea Farm near Bradnop. The marriage record gives us Ralph Finney of Whitelee & Margery Sant of Goldsich. They had several children all at White lea. Currently Margaret (unknown surname) seems to be the best bet for the Wife of Raphe. they had four children two (Ann 1628 and Thomas 1630) born in the Mayfield area close to Ellastone, and two William 1636-1712 and Dorothy 1640 born in Ellestone. Dorothy was baptised in 1640 after the death of her father on 16 May 1640. Her baptism on 15 Aug 1640 reads Darothy dau of Margarett Finney, vidua (widow)

Incidently Raphe is still a name that is used. I worked many years with a Raphe Finney
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Monday 19 February 18 09:34 GMT (UK)
Jonathan & Ann had five children according to my research John 1709-1717, Samuel 1712- 1788 (it was his son by Jane who met Jean-Jacques Rousseau when he stayed at Wootton Hall), George 1715-1750, William 1718-1791, and Thomas 1721-1790. Which line is yours?

Also re: the wife of Raphe Finney Having studied the Parish records I have come to the conclusion that this Raphe Finney did not marry Margery Sant in leek as previously thought. That Margery was almost certainly the wife of Ralph Finney of White Lea Farm near Bradnop. The marriage record gives us Ralph Finney of Whitelee & Margery Sant of Goldsich. They had several children all at White lea. Currently Margaret (unknown surname) seems to be the best bet for the Wife of Raphe. they had four children two (Ann 1628 and Thomas 1630) born in the Mayfield area close to Ellastone, and two William 1636-1712 and Dorothy 1640 born in Ellestone. Dorothy was baptised in 1640 after the death of her father on 16 May 1640. Her baptism on 15 Aug 1640 reads Darothy dau of Margarett Finney, vidua (widow)

Incidently Raphe is still a name that is used. I worked many years with a Raphe Finney

hi

william 1718-1791 is my line, he married ann salt in 1742, had john 1753 who married elizabeth wardle in 1781. their son charles 1785 married ellen kent in 1805 and their son george 1834 had my great grandmother emily in 1859. i have a picture of emily.

yes, i agree about ralph who married margery sant. william 1636 baptism clearly says 'son of ralph and wife'. so either ralph 1612 married someone around 1634 and she died soon after william was born and william re-married, or it was a different ralph.

you beat me there, i had yet to discover further siblings of william 1636, thanks for that! however there might be a problem. youre ann 1628 would mean that father ralph 1612 would only be 16. so whilst ralph 1612 is likely to be our william 1636s father, could he be the mayfield childrens father?

jonathons marriage to ann heath is easily found. on family search theres all the info including a photo of the entry of the registration.

jonathon finney born 1680 of ellison (ellaston) and ann heath of hanbury/marchington (close parishes to ellastone) 7th june 1707. (1680 close enough to 1678). married at hanbury or marchington

cheers :)


Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Monday 19 February 18 16:37 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the marriage info on Ann and Jonathan.
With regard to Raphe. While 16 is young to father a child it would not be unknown. Unfortunately there are few records for that era. What records that exist that i have found are as follows (for Raphe & Ralph Finney)
Parish records:
23/02/1541 bap Rauffe son of Robert and Elizabeth, Ellastone
01/12/1583 bap Raphe son of Thomas Finney, Ellastone
22/08/1599 bap Ales (Alice?) dau of Raphe Buxtones, of Ilam, husbandman & Elizabeth Finney, spin (added to show that illegitimate births were recorded as such), Ellastone
23/02/1612 bap Raphe son of John Finney, Ellastone
Then
16/05/1628 bap Anna dau of Radulpli & Margaretae, Mayfield
24/12/1630 bap Thomas son of Radulpli & Margaretae, Mayfield
19/10/1635 bap Anna dau of Ralph & Anne Finney, of Bradnop (Leek)
10/10/1636 bap William Son of Raphe Finney, Ellastone
18/06/1637 bap Ellen dau of Ralph Finney of Bradnop (Leek)
16/05/1640 Burial Raphe Finney, Ellastone (supposedly a memorial in Ellastone Churchyard which I have not found)
15/08/1640 bap Darothy dau of Margrett Finney, vidua (widow), Ellastone
08/10/1640 Mar. Ralph Finney or Whitelee & Margery Sant of Goldsich (Leek)
07/11/1642 bap Alice dau of Ralph & Margerie Finney of Whitelee (Leek)
30/10/1644 Burial Ralph Finney of Bradnop.
There are a few more births in Leek to Ralph & Margery
Certainly Dorothy was a daughter of Raphe & Margarett (his last child) which makes me inclined to think that the births in Mayfield are also of this family. Unfortunately Margarett is a bit of a mystery figure I have found no marriage for her and Raphe as yet and there is no burial record for her that i can see.
There is, as you will see, an earlier Raphe Finney baptised in 1583 son of Thomas Fynny. If he was our Raphe then he would be 53 at the birth of William and 57 at the time of his death when Dorothy was born. Again not impossible as our elusive Margaret could be a young wife.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Tuesday 20 February 18 09:50 GMT (UK)
yes its certainly frustrating. i too had noticed the ralph 1583, in fact his brother john is i think possibly 'our' ralphs father (1612) .

i have as a possibility...

william 1636 (i think certain jonathans father) was the son of ralph 1612.
ralph 1612 parents were john 1578 who married joan higginbotham in 1598 at ellastone
john 1578 father was thomas fynnye 1555 ellastone, unknown mother
thomas 1555 parents were thomas 1528 who married margaret walker(1532-1600) in 1553 at ellastone.

so  the known ralphs were either 16 or 48 when ann 1628 was born. or, there is another unrecorded ralph.

for my proposed tree to be right, ralph 1612 needs to be williams 1636 father, we know william 1636s father was ralph. i agree that dorothy was the daughter of ralph and margaret,  ralphs burial is recorded just a few entries above dorothys baptism.

i too have been around ellastone churchyard and found a forest of finney burials in a plot. but all to recent (mid 1700s - late 1800s) and this is borne out on the 'wishful thinking' website.... memorial insciptions
http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/STS/Ellastone/MIs.html

it has other counties too...handy!

i know family search are adding new records all the time. ive been shocked to find with ease some records that non of the 'big 3' sites had any record of just a couple of years ago. so theres hope that a ralph/margaret marriage will be found yet. but until that happens i think our line of certainty stops at william 1636 - which isnt bad! beyond that, my proposed tree is rather speculative and relies heavily on scant info being correct.

ps.... when i originally searched this a couple of years ago, i had williams parents as ralph and ann sant. i can find no info on this now, maybe it was incorrect and has been removed.

regards - rob.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Tuesday 20 February 18 16:46 GMT (UK)
I pretty much concur with your proposal for the line of succession re: Thomas & Margaret Walker, Thomas & Unknown, John & joan Higginbotham and Raphe 1612. I keep my eye out for any new records that might help confirm or otherwise my thoughts.
It is interesting that John Fynnye and Joan Higginbotham's first born son William was born out of wedlock. As the parish baptism records on 1st Feb 1608 William son of John Fynnye, tailor & Joan Higginbotham, spin. It would seem that illegitimate births did not carry the stigma of later, when only the mother's name would be recorded. Evidently at this period father's were happy to claim their illegitimate offspring.
Incidently I have a copy of the will of Jonathan Finney of 1734. If you don't have this I will see if I can send you details.
Finney Wills

Will of Joseph Finney of Stanton probate 24th July 1852
Will of Jonathan Finney of Wootton 19th May 1845
Will of Samuel Finney of Wootton 29th April 1840
Will of Charles Finney of Ellastone 20th December 1837
Will of David Finney of Ellastone  26th  October 1836
Will of Mary Finney of Wootton 21 Oct 1823
The deposition of Samuel Finney in relation to the will and death by suicide of Samuel Gallimore late of Ellaston 27th Sept 1752
Administration of Jonathan Finney of Ellaston 14th Nov 1734
Feoffment of Thomas Fynny 1558

Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Wednesday 21 February 18 10:25 GMT (UK)
hi

yes i noticed that william was illegitimate, maybe in rural areas it didnt carry the same stigma?.
my george 1834 was also illegitimate, he was born to emma1818 when she was 16 (charles and ellens daughter). george 1834 was brought up by his grandparents charles1785 and ellen (kent) 1784. (jonathon was charles gt grandfather) this wasnt apparent until later census's and georges second marriage. in fact georges second daughter, my gt grandmother emily 1859 also had an illegitimate daughter who she gave up prior to her marrying my gt grandfather george hill. i think its likely that george hill refused to bring up another mans daughter and made emily chose... (if it was his daughter, im sure theyd have kept her).

ive seen the will of jonathon finney 1734, but tbh find it difficult to read (my old eyes arent that clever). from what i can make out he left everything to ann, as you suggested, and he was a farmer? owning cows and sheep?. unfortunately for me, i dont think the other wills listed are anything to do with my line directly (unless brothers/sister are mentioned)

one thing that bothers me a bit about jonathons parents. we know sarah 1666, ann 1668 and thomas 1668 (twins?)  john 1673, margaret 1680 and elizabeth 1683, plus a burial of a daughter in 1665 (christian name obscured by water mark) are all credited as having william and ann as parents.... so why doesnt jonathon who only has william as a parent?

to me that leaves the door open to our jonathons father william not being the same william who married ann and had those children. however, the date of jonathons birth fits the pattern of births of william and ann.

thinking about it then, suggest to me that we can only be certain of the lineage back to jonathon, and whilst william 1636 is likely to be jonathons father, im not sure it can be proven. we know there are missing records (ralph 1612, william 1636 marriages for eg) or uncertain records for this period. so its perfectly feasible that there was another william and the unproven tree back to thomas 1528 might well be wrong, or incomplete.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 21 February 18 16:25 GMT (UK)
I think it reasonable to assume (with the proviso that as we get further back certainty is enevitably going to be in short supply) that William (and Ann) were Jonathan's parents. There arn't really any other William's about that fit the bill (according to records). Having gone over the parish records the recording of the mother's name seems somewhat arbitrary. One entry for Alstonfield rather unhelpfully records "Buried wife of William Finney of Cala (Carr Lane?)" in 1647. It would also help if we knew who Ann was. All I have to go on is a 1665 Marriage of william to Ann off another researcher (who didn't recall where he got it from) which is about as slim as you can get.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 21 February 18 16:29 GMT (UK)
Jonathan Finney will transcript (pt1)

The Admin of Jonathan Finney of Ellaston
Probate 14 Nov 1734

At Cheddleton 14th Nov 1734
Before Richard Rider esq. Bachelor of Law

Which day appeared personally AnnFinney
And did allege that Jonathan Finney –late of the parish of Ellastone in the county of Stafford and diocease of Lichfield and Coventry dyed above fourteen days ago intestate, that she is the widow of the said deceased and the person to whom the right of action doth belong therefore he prayed letter of administration of the goods and personal estate of the said deceased to be committed and granted to her whith the judge aforesaid upon mature deliberation and administering to the said Ann Finney – the usual oath taken by administrators decreed to be granted to her.
The said Ann Finney was then duly favour[ed] and the action was deferred by me
R Rider
Whish (?)
G Hand, farmer

Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 21 February 18 16:30 GMT (UK)
Jonathan Finney will transcript pt2

Know all men by these present that wee Ann Finney of the Parish of Ellastone in the county of Stafford, widow, Henry Heath (?) of the same place, yeoman & John Heath of the same place, taylor are held and firmly bound unto the right reverend Hathersin God Richards by Divine possession Lord Bishop of Lichfield and Coventry in the sum of two hundred pounds of good and lawfull money of Great Britain to be paid unto the said Lord Bishop or his certain attorney, his executors, Administrators or assigns to which payment well and truly be made. Wee oblige our selves and such of us by himself or herself for the whole our and such of our heirs executors and administrators firmly by these presents sealed with our seals dated the fourteenth day of November in the eighth year of the reign of our sovereign Lord George the 2nd by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France and Ireland King, Defender the faith and so forth and in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and thirty four.
The condition of this obligation is such that if the above bounden Ann Finney widow X administrator of all and singular the goods chattels and credits of the said deceased which have or shall come to the hands of possession or knowledge of person or persons for her and the same so made do exhibit or cause to be exhibited into the registry of the said Bishop’s consistory at Lichfield at or before the last day of February next ensuing and the same goods chattels and credits and all other goods to the hands or possession of the said Ann Finney or into the hands and possession of any other person or persons for do well and truly administer according to law and further do make or cause to be made a true and just accompt of her said administration at or before the last day of November 1735 and all the rest and residue of the said goods chattels and credits which shall be found remaining upon the said administrators accompt the same being first examined and allowed by the judge or judges for the time being of the said court shall deliver and pay unto such person or persons respectively as the said judge or judges by his or their decree or sentence pursuant to the true intent and meaning of a late act of parliament made in the two and twentieth and three and twentieth years of the reign of our late sovereign Lord King Charles the second (intituled an act for the better settling of intestates estates) shall limit and appoint and if it shall hereafter appear that any late will and testament was made by the said deceased and the executor or executors therein named do exhibit the same into the said court making request to have it allowed and approved accordingly if the said Ann Finney above bounden being thereunto required do render and deliver the said letters of administration (approbation of such testament being first had and made) in the said court then this obligation to be void or else to remain in full force and virtue.
Sealed and delivered being first duly stamped in the presence of

John Fletcher, Beolary Pub.
The mark of Ann Finney
Hen Heath
John Heath

Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 21 February 18 16:31 GMT (UK)
Jonathan Finney Will transcript pt3

A true and perfect inventory of  all the goods cattels and chattels of Jonathan Finney of Wootton in the parish of Ellaston and county of Stafford. Husbandman lately died taken and apprised the seventeenth day of September Anno Domini 1734 by us whose names are under written

First of all his purs[e] and apparrill ---------- £0:15:0
 
Item the goods in the house place, a table, a cubbord, four chairs, three littell pewter dishes, a long chair, two bowkes (buckets, specifically a wooden pail. could also mean books), two pauns (pans), a churn, a chees[e] tub. ------------------------------------------ £1:1:6

Item the goods in the great parlor and Bead (bed) with all things belonging to it. One chest, two boxes, a littell table ---------- £1:5:5

Item the goods in the littell parlor. One bead (bed) with all things belonging to it, one coaver (coffer), two iron potts and one iron kettell ---- £1:1:6

Item the goods in the chamber over the Great parlor all the cheese and cheese shelves ------------------------------------------------ £5:15:0

Item the goods in the chamber over the house place one littell table, one coaver (coffer) and a littell box and hamper --------------------- £0:3:10

Item the goods in the chamber over the littell parlor one pair of beed stids (bed steads) and all things belonging to it and one swine kinmell (tub used for brewing or making bacon)---£0:14:8

Item two mares, two goates, a yearling coult (colt) --- £10:5:0

Item eight cowes, one heifor (heifer), three stirks(young bullocks), five caued (calves) – £29:10:0
Item twenty six sheep --------------------------------£8:5:0

Item the goods in the barne and field as to hay and corne – £11:0:0

Item one cart and all other husbandry ware -----------------£2:15:0

Item all other lumber goods seen and unseen -------------£0:10:0

John Oakes appreisor
Sum totalled ---------------------------------------------£74:4:6
Thomas Sherard(?)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Thursday 22 February 18 09:40 GMT (UK)
I think it reasonable to assume (with the proviso that as we get further back certainty is enevitably going to be in short supply) that William (and Ann) were Jonathan's parents. There arn't really any other William's about that fit the bill (according to records). Having gone over the parish records the recording of the mother's name seems somewhat arbitrary. One entry for Alstonfield rather unhelpfully records "Buried wife of William Finney of Cala (Carr Lane?)" in 1647. It would also help if we knew who Ann was. All I have to go on is a 1665 Marriage of william to Ann off another researcher (who didn't recall where he got it from) which is about as slim as you can get.

absolutely, i think thats fair..

cheers for the will transcript. appreciate that! its not easy to follow in typed english let alone scribed writing from 300 years ago!

is there any evidence of where they lived? im assuming they were tennants.

cheers :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Thursday 22 February 18 10:37 GMT (UK)
Possibly there is a record but it will be in Stafford records. My line mainly stayed in Wootton just up the road from Ellastone, so most of the records are what I have for there. There are quite few records manorial court records, lists of persons in the village, lists of journeymen, lists of jurors etc. I also have an 1844 map of Wootton with plot numbers which I have linked to a few Finney families. The latter information came from Simon Manby, an artist who lives in Wootton in a house previously occupied by one of the William Finneys and Henry Ratcliffe. He wrote a book about the Philospher Jean-Jacques Rousseau who stayed at Wootton hall in the 18th century.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Thursday 22 February 18 12:29 GMT (UK)
Possibly there is a record but it will be in Stafford records. My line mainly stayed in Wootton just up the road from Ellastone, so most of the records are what I have for there. There are quite few records manorial court records, lists of persons in the village, lists of journeymen, lists of jurors etc. I also have an 1844 map of Wootton with plot numbers which I have linked to a few Finney families. The latter information came from Simon Manby, an artist who lives in Wootton in a house previously occupied by one of the William Finneys and Henry Ratcliffe. He wrote a book about the Philospher Jean-Jacques Rousseau who stayed at Wootton hall in the 18th century.

interesting stuff... my line left wooton c1800, although john1753 lived there before he died in 1814. his son charles 1785 seemed to have been brought up in alton/farley, and he lived there when george 1834 was born.

out of interest, what is your line to jonathon 1678?, just wondering when our lines meet.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Thursday 22 February 18 16:20 GMT (UK)
My line is:
 Jonathan 1678-1734 & Ann Heath =Samuel Finney 1712-1788 & Margaret Iblin = Thomas Finney 1752-1824 & elizabeth Yates = William Finney 1777-1844 & Mary Thompson = William Finney 1806-1891 & Mary Chadwick/Ratcliff = William Finney 1846-1921 & Maria Malkin = James Finney 1886-1953 & Annie May Howard = James Finney 1917-1967 & Mary "May" Birks. May Birks was the daughter of Jesse Isiah Birks (1893-1949) & Polly Philpott 1891-1956. Polly was my mother's aunt (mothers father Wilfred Philpott was Polly's cousin). When my mother was 13 or 14 her mum couldn't cope with looking after her and her father who was terminally ill at the time. So she left home and went to live with James and May Finney her cousins. I remember James vaguley as children we would often stay with them when our parents were out.
Interestingly James Finney's father, James Finney (1886-1953) was born in Ireland. His father (William) had been a caretaker farmer recruited from England to go over and maintain farms from which tennents had been evicted.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Friday 23 February 18 08:51 GMT (UK)
7th cousins?... your samuel was my williams older brother then :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Friday 23 February 18 09:43 GMT (UK)
2nd cousins once removed. It was William Finney (1846-1921) who took the family away from Wootton. He had various jobs up and down the country and over in Ireland. He eventually settled in Longton, Stoke-on-Trent where the family remains to date. This was a song I composed about his trials in Ireland based on family records and contemporary accounts.

https://youtu.be/arld0yb9J48
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Saturday 24 February 18 09:11 GMT (UK)
2nd cousins once removed. It was William Finney (1846-1921) who took the family away from Wootton. He had various jobs up and down the country and over in Ireland. He eventually settled in Longton, Stoke-on-Trent where the family remains to date. This was a song I composed about his trials in Ireland based on family records and contemporary accounts.

https://youtu.be/arld0yb9J48

i have no idea how the cousins thing works! apart from the obvious. lol.

will give the track an air when my systems set up.. :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Friday 02 March 18 14:34 GMT (UK)
2nd cousins once removed. It was William Finney (1846-1921) who took the family away from Wootton. He had various jobs up and down the country and over in Ireland. He eventually settled in Longton, Stoke-on-Trent where the family remains to date. This was a song I composed about his trials in Ireland based on family records and contemporary accounts.

https://youtu.be/arld0yb9J48

sorry only just got around to listening to this..

outstanding! i love a bit of folk, although in recent years other genres have been top of my playlist.
you dont sound unlike martin carthy, one of my favs. :)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: Zen rabbit on Friday 02 March 18 15:23 GMT (UK)
Filmed in Ellastone Churchyard too ;-)
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: FinneyHarris on Saturday 17 March 18 17:09 GMT (UK)
Hello All,

I'm new to this site but I have been researching my Finney ancestry back to Ellastone - possibly as far as Thomas Finney baptised around 1555?

My Great Grandfather was John Finney who was born in Ellastone and then moved to Walsall (for mining jobs I believe) with his family. My Grandfather Charles Finney was then born in Walsall.

What would I love to know is, is it possible to trace back past church records - i.e. before 1538?
Where was this Finney line from? Was it Irish or originally Norman?

Any help/pointers would be much appreciated. And 'hello' distant relations!






Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Sunday 18 March 18 10:08 GMT (UK)
Hello All,

I'm new to this site but I have been researching my Finney ancestry back to Ellastone - possibly as far as Thomas Finney baptised around 1555?

My Great Grandfather was John Finney who was born in Ellastone and then moved to Walsall (for mining jobs I believe) with his family. My Grandfather Charles Finney was then born in Walsall.

What would I love to know is, is it possible to trace back past church records - i.e. before 1538?
Where was this Finney line from? Was it Irish or originally Norman?

Any help/pointers would be much appreciated. And 'hello' distant relations!

hi welcome!

im not sure theres much going back beyond the 1500's, although there is a tree somewhere that goes back further.

its likely that the finneys around leek/inc ellastone are descended from john fennis who was a norman. but this is unclear, maybe dna evidence might help one day.

theres another thread on the finneys worth reading if you havnt.
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: FinneyHarris on Sunday 18 March 18 12:22 GMT (UK)

Thanks for your reply Robert.

Any idea where i can look for this earlier tree or is there anything written about John Fennis?
Title: Re: FINNEY of ellastone
Post by: robert g shaw on Sunday 18 March 18 14:17 GMT (UK)
afraid not, think it might be on the internet somewhere, others will know more i think.