RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sue 123 on Wednesday 14 February 18 18:13 GMT (UK)
-
Hi,
I'm looking for my great grandmother in Liverpool in 1881.
Hannah was born in 1865. Her father was William b 1836 and her mother Ellen died in 1877.
Wondering where Hannah and her father William are ? Also possibly her 2 sisters Sarah and Ann?
I have her on later census records after her marriage.
Thanks
Sue
-
Hi their is a 15 year old Hannah SHEPHARD with a Clancy family in 1881 Everton, West Derby?
Census ref RG11/3666/33/5
Keyboard86
-
if this is the family in 1871
13 Gough Court Toxteth Park Lancs
William Shepherd Head M 33 Shipsmith
Ellen wife 34
Sarah E daugther 10
HANNAH daughter 6
Ann J daughter 2
all b Liverpool
RG10 3793
then could this be William and new wife and children in 1881?
7 Head St Toxteth Park
William Shepherd head M 42 Shipsmith
Ann Jane wife 30
William J son 14 mths
Isabella daughter 4m
Catherine Bridson boarder U 57 dressmaker
all b Liverpool
RG11 3635 52 38
Suz
-
Hi again, Ann Jane SHEPHARD aged 11 is at the Vale House Training Home Everton.
Census ref RG11/3672/31/7
In 1891 census Ann J SHEPARD aged 22 b Liverpool is a Servant with a Squire family at Hope Street, Liverpool
Census ref RG12/2917/7/7
Keyboard86
-
good find Keyboard
think this is William in 1891
67 Woodruff St Liverpool
William Shepherd Head M 53 Shipsmith
Ann Jane wife 42
Isabella daughter 14 Garston
William J son 11
John son 8
all except Isabella b Liverpool
RG12 2928 74 39
and by 1901 William was a widower and daughter Ann Jane is with him
1901
68 High Park St Liverpool
William Shepherd Head widower 62 Blacksmith
Anne Jane daughter U 31 Housekeeper
William J son U 21 Clerk timber trade
John son 18 Bookkeeper Shipping
RG13 3435 66 27
Suz
-
there is a marriage reg freeBMD
Sept qtr 1878 West Derby
on same page
William Shepherd
Ann Jane Stevenson
8b 661
Suz
-
this looks like sister Sarah E
St Peter Liverpool
Sarah Ellen Shepherd
born 9 Oct 1860
baptised 22 Oct 1860
parents William & Ellen Shepherd
Greenland St
fther's occ Blacksmith
Marriage
St Nicholas Liverpool
24 Feb 1879
Joseph Wittingham 30 Bachelor Joiner Greenland St father Joseph Wittingham occ Baker
Sarah Ellen Shepherd 18 Spinster Greenland St father William Shepherd occ Shipsmith
witnesses Phillip Shepherd & Mary Ann Shepherd (made their mark ) bride & groom signed
so
1881
120 Balliol Rd Bootle cum Linacre
Joseph Wittingham Head M 32 Joiner unemployed
Sarah Ellen wife 21
Sarah Ann daughter
all b Liverpool
RG11 3690 106 5
Suz
-
It seems Isabella Shepherd's birth was registered Mar qtr 1877 Garstang
so possibly she is the daughter of Wiliam and Ellen -so Hannah's full sister
there is a burial Toxteth Park Cemetery Ellen Shepherd 12 Jun 1877
may be worth checking out
Suz
-
Hi again, a possible death for Ann Jane Shepherd:-
Ann J Shepherd b abt 1869 death Sept qtr 1936 Liverpool North 8b 311 aged 67
Possibly the Single 40 year old Ann Sheperd in Colne, Lancashire in 1911?
Keyboard86
-
Hi possibly William Shepherd married again in June qtr 1902 Toxteth Park to a Susannah Bowden?
William possibly died June qtr 1917 Toxteth Park aged 79
Susannah Shepherd possibly died Sept qtr 1920 Toxteth Park aged 68
Keyboard86
-
Hi all,
Thats great info. It looks like that is indeed my Hannah's family and William appears to have been married 3 times.
I will dig further to see if Isobella is indeed Hannah's full sister but my only doubt is that it mentions Garstang for her birth place, which is near Preston, and so I wonder why they were there when all other census, births, marriages & deaths are centered in Liverpool ?
Thanks all
-
Hi the 1881 original I see for Isabella Shepherd has aged 4 b Liverpool?
Census ref RG11/3635/52/38
Was William married to an Ellen HALL, as this is the maiden name of the mother of Isabella Shepherd 1877 Garstang ( Note to myself, Garston is not in Garstang registration district)
Other births have mmn PILSON eg Sarah Ellen 1860, Hannah 1865 and Ann Jane 1869 West Derby.
A William Shepherd possibly married an Ellen Pilson Dec qtr 1859 Liverpool 8b 146?
Keyboard86
-
Hi the 1881 original I see for Isabella Shepherd has aged 4 b Liverpool?
Census ref RG11/3635/52/38
Was William married to an Ellen HALL, as this is the maiden name of the mother of Isabella Shepherd 1877 Garstang ( Note to myself, Garston is not in Garstang registration district)
Other births have mmn PILSON eg Sarah Ellen 1860, Hannah 1865 and Ann Jane 1869 West Derby.
A William Shepherd possibly married an Ellen Pilson Dec qtr 1859 Liverpool 8b 146?
Keyboard86
Hi there,
No, on reflection this must be different as my William married Ellen Pilson as you mentioned, I only have them with 3 daughters Sarah, Hannah and Ann Jane before Ellen's death in 1877. Not sure when William died but I have a guess date from another site of 1890 so its possible that he did remarry at some stage but dont think Isabella in Garstang is my William .
I think you are all correct through with both Ann Jane and Hannah going into service .
Thanks
sue
-
there is a marriage reg freeBMD
Sept qtr 1878 West Derby
on same page
William Shepherd
Ann Jane Stevenson
8b 661
Suz
Think this correct, so still trying to locate the Isabella b c 1877 Garston which is West Derby registration?
William James Shepherd Sept qtr 1879 West Derby has mmn Stevenson
Keyboard86
-
Hi again, the marriage of William to Ann Jane was:-
25th August 1878 Toxteth, St James
William Shepherd 39 Widower occ Ship Smith Father Philip Shepherd occ Labourer
Ann Jane Stevenson 29 Spinster address Head Street Father William Stevenson occ Joiner
Witnesses Samuel Owens & Dorothy Shepherd
William Shepherd Full age occ Smith Father Phillip occ Labourer
Ellen Pilson Full age Father James Pilson occ Carter
25th December 1859 Liverpool, St Barnabus
Address 88, Greenland
Keyboard86
-
It looks like Isabella Shepherd b 1877 reg Garstang district may be the daughter of Thomas & Ann Shepherd - on census her p.o.b. is Forton Lancs and the family are living in Pilling -in GARSTANG reg dist
There is this birth reg
Isabella Shepherd July qtr 1876 W Derby reg dist
may be worth checking?
Suz
-
Hi Suz, that one has mmn Jordan
Keyboard86
-
wonder if Isabella was Ann Jane's daughter before she married William ??
Suz
-
wonder if Isabella was Ann Jane's daughter before she married William ??
Suz
:) Really have tried, and post 1891 for Isabella b c 1877?
A couple of possible returns:-
The Williiam Shepherd & Ann Jane family lived at 7, Head Street, Toxteth Park in 1881, and Ann Jane was in Head Street at marriage, their are these people living at that address in 1861/71 census.
Mary STEPHENSON ?
Ann ? 25
1871 census RG10/3794/71/21
1861 Census RG09/2698/80/45
The Dorothy Shepherd, one of the witnesses at the marriage of William to Ann Jane could be in this 1851 family:-
Phillip Shepherd 40 occ Labourer
Sarah 44
William 14 occ Apprentice ? Smith
Phillip 8
James 6
Dorothy 3
Residing at Brighton Street, Toxteth Park
Census ref HO107/2186/477/28
Ann Jane Shepherd died Sept qtr 1899 Toxteth Park aged 53
Keyboard86
-
Yes that would appear to be the same family. William had a sister Dorothy so I guess she was the witness at his 2nd marriage to AnnJane.
I need to join the other *site* to dig further on Ellen Shepherd ( nee Pilson) as possibly some indications that she is mentioned in court/ criminal cases in 1870s ? Assuming its the same Ellen!!
Thanks
-
:) Personally, I would stick at present with just who is "Isabella" b c 1877 in two census returns with William and Ann Jane, and just who is Ann Jane!?
Keyboard86
-
Hi went looking for an Ellen Pilson b c 1837 Father James, in 1841 census:-
James Pilson 40
Margaret 35
James 19
Hannah 12
Samuel 10
William 8
ELLEN 5
John 2
Residing at Blundell Street, Liverpool
Census ref HO107/566/ 15/27 / 12
Ellen Pilson baptism 15th March 1835 Liverpool, St Peter Father James Mother Margaret
Followed son John b c 1839 in 1861 aged 20 with what looks to be his sister Hannah 33 who married a Peter Stokes 4th December 1856 Father James Pilson, and living at 88, GREENLAND STREET
Census ref RG09/2679/85/58
Where do you have Ellen Shepherd's death is it June qtr 1877 in Prescot/t? with two refs numbers 8b 479 and 8b 482?
Her death/burial states 12th June 1877 Toxteth Park Cemetery Plot Sec 11, Grave 214 Memorial ID 174566362
William Shepherd death /burial states 18th June 1917 Toxteth Park Cemetery Plot Sec 3, Grave 856 Memorial ID 174566466
Keyboard86
-
Hi Keyboard,
Yes I have that 12/6/1877 for Ellen.
I was told that William remarried Ann Jane ( he also has a daughter AJ!) and married for a 3rd time to Susanah.
I hadnt found William's death so thanks for that.
Am waiting for a deal on one of the sites as I want to research Ellen as I have a suspicion that she was in a home/asylum/prison in the 18702 prior to her death.
I have been contacted by a relative of Isabella! and she is not sure if Isabella is the daughter of Ellen or Ann Jane . I guess at some point we will do DNA to assist.
thanks again
Sue
-
Hi Sue, by 1858 Ellen Pilson was married to William Shepherd and is shown with him on the 1861/71, re the contact you have with someone re Isabella b c 1877 aged 14 in 1891 census, do they say that she married if so under what name and when/where?
The death registration in Prescot of Ellen Shepherd in 1877 aged 41, why two references and why Prescot?
Keyboard86
-
Hi Sue, by 1858 Ellen Pilson was married to William Shepherd and is shown with him on the 1861/71, re the contact you have with someone re Isabella b c 1877 aged 14 in 1891 census, do they say that she married if so under what name and when/where?
The death registration in Prescot of Ellen Shepherd in 1877 aged 41, why two references and why Prescot?
Keyboard86
Apparently Isabella married a Mr Davies - not sure of date but possibly in Wales.
William and Ellen were married in 1859.
I found a burial in toxteth park cem for Ellen on 12 June 1877. No idea why the death was registered in Prescot???? maybe another Ellen Shepherd?
-
Hi again Sue, their must be some reason why the death in Prescot has two registration references, the trouble with the Toxteth Cemetery date of death it gives no age at death!?
So this contact appears to know that Isabella married a "Mr Davies" possibly in Wales, with no indication under which name she married and where/when?!
Keyboard86
-
I have no idea why it would have been registered twice. No idea as to cause of death either. Do you when they started putting cause of deaths on death certs.
I will try and find out a bit more about Isabella but am really concentrating on Ellen and her daughter Hannah.
Thks for your on going help.
Sue