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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: JLH1965 on Thursday 15 February 18 03:07 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I'm new to the Chat boards and hoping that this could be what helps break a mystery on my mothers family line.
Marie Antionette Hancock (born Turton) (b:1863, m:1885) is one of my Great Great Grandmothers, she was born in Bradford, Yorkshire, England and Married James Henry Hancock and died in London, England. I haven't been able to find any information that i can count on.
Any help would be of great help
Thank You
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There is a marriage of a John Hancock to a Marie Antionette Turton in Lambeth in 1885 and I wonder if this is the family in 1891 living in Lambeth
John Hancock 51 b Walworth, London - General Dealer
Marie Hancock 28 b Bradford
James Healey Hancock 8 Months b Lambeth
Annie Long Hancock 9 Niece b Lambeth
Lilian Healey Hancock 4 ? Daughter b Lambeth
Louisa Doggett 37 Boarder
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Details of the 1885 marriage are online
Marie Antionette Turton is listed as 22 with father Richard Turton - Musician
John Hancock is listed as 45 a Bachelor - Fish Dealer with father William Hancock (deceased) Grainer?
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I wonder if this newspaper article might related to the Turton family??
May 20, 1865 - Hampshire Advertiser
RICHARD TURTON, musician, now travelling with Ginnett's Circus, WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE for any DEBTS his WIFE, MARY ANN TURTON (now keeping the Golden Lion Tap, Baok-of-the- Walls, Southampton)
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I can't see a birth for Marie in Bradford but there is this birth in 1862 on the GRO Birth Index
MARRONETT TURTON - Mothers maiden name EDWARDS
GRO Ref 1862 March Qter 1862 in BRADFORD YORKSHIRE Volume 09B Page 61
Also found a marriage online
Richard Turton age 24 Musician father George Turton - Labourer
Mary Ann Edwards age 20 father Henry Edwards - Licensed Victualler
Marriage 1 Mar 1852 Liverpool, St John, Lancashire
Added -can't see them in a census but they must have moved around a lot
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Looking at other possible siblings of Marie Turton there are a few options on the GRO Birth Index and I noticed the following -
William Henry Turtin - Mothers Maiden Name Edwards
Dec Qrter 1859 in HULL Vol 09D Page 211
I think I have found him in the Irish Census in 1901 listed a musician with birthplace Hull with wife Caroline. A newspaper article in Liverpool Mercury - March 5, 1895 relates to a court case about the cruel treatment of their daughter Caroline Marian or Marian Anette by people they left her with while they were on tour with the circus. Four years before they had been connected to a circus company in Belfast
So William may well have been a son of Richard and Mary Ann and worked in the circus as a musician like his father
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Great finds Kay :)
I think you're right about William Henry as there is an article in The Era 18 April 1885 about a question being raised to the Home Secretary about an accusation that Ginnett's Circus trained their boys using whips, severely lashing them whenever they failed. Frederick Ginnett, proprietor, strenuously denied it, and the troupe signed a letter confirming this. Amongst the signatures was William Henry Turton, a double drummer, who had been with them 25 years, ie since birth.
Also Leeds Times 04 May 1867 reported on a Mary Ann Turton 'connected with a travelling circus' being charged with stealing a sovereign, so it looks like she & Richard may have reconciled.
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Good find Jomet - I found the reference to Mary Ann but missed the article on William Henry which I think confirms the connection to Richard and Mary Ann
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The record of the Bradford Sessions in 1867 gives Mary Ann's age as 41 and states she is married with no trade . Verdict of the jury - no bill for larceny.
William
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Marriage of Marie Antoinette Hancock 14 Dec 1914 in Lambeth to Thomas Tindall. She is a 51 year old widow, address 10 Old Paradise Street. Father named as Richard Turton, musician.
Apart from the 1891 census which Kay found struggling to see her in any other census.
William
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William Henry Turton married Caroline Louisa Adams in Portsea, Hampshire in March 1884, naming his father as Richard, a Coal Miner ???
William Henry Turton 24 bachelor Musician 6 Bow Street. Father = Richard Turton, Coal Miner
Caroline Louisa Adams 20 spinster Sussex Street. Father = William Adams, Stonemason
Wits: Caroline Gardner & Aly? W Hewitt
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Maybe Richard had a change of job for a while :-\
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Looks like Marie born 1862 was their second daughter by this name as there is this baptism at St Matthew, Nottingham (transcript only):
20 Jun 1858 (born 23 Sep 1857) Murrow Anett d/o Richard & Mary Ann Turton of Wollaton St.
This would seem to be her birth, but in Cheshire:
TURTON, MARRANETT mmn EDWARDS
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in NANTWICH Volume 08A Page 283
ADDED: Burial 3 Sep 1858 Moorgate Cemetery, Rotherham, Marrionett Turton aged 1
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Yes - I think the first Marranett died in Rotherham in 1858
MARROWNETT TURTON Age 0
GRO Ref 1858 Sept Qrter ROTHERHAM Volume 09C Page 239
Ah - you found the burial
I only other possible children I found were Mary Ann 1852 Rotherham and Caroline 1854 Holywell Flintshire
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Kay, I'm just reading that child cruelty case you found and the child was Marian or Marian Anetta Turton aged 13, not Caroline. Her birth is registered as Marionette Mary Turton mmn Adams.
Sounds horrific, poor girl.
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I only other possible children I found were Mary Ann 1852 Rotherham and Caroline 1854 Holywell Flintshire
I wondered about other daughters as there was an advert for Ginnell’s in the Era 18 Dec 1886 which listed the Equestriennes, and one was MLLE Turton.
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Yes My mistake - too many Carolines! :-\ -
The court case said her own mother didn't recognise her !!
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Going back to the marriage for a Richard Turton which Kay found and his age being 24 there is a baptism for a Richard Turton b 8 June 1827 in Silkstone Yorkshire - parents George and Mary (occ. given as farmer).
1841 census has this in Greasborough Rotherham
George 43 coal miner
Mary 40
Charles 15
Richard 13
Ann 10
George 2
William 1
1851 in Greasborough
George Turton 53 b Brodsworth
Catherine Turton wife 41
Ann 21 daughter born Silksworth
George 12 son 12b Greasbrough
Sam 0 son b Greasbrough
Jane Ulley daughter in law 5
John Ulley son in law 2
Think George married Catherine in 1849 - her surname showing as Hulley in bmd index, Gro index has mmn for Sam Turton as Willey - plenty of scope for transcription errors between Ulley, Hulley and Willey).
Note that Ann Turton is showing as born Silksworth - baptism has parents George and Mary(occ labourer).
There is a Richard Turton in the 1851 census b Yorkshire 1828 - a lodger in Derby.
May be a complete red herring but with the references to Rotherham (Greaseborough is in Rotherham RD) in previous posts thought I would bring to your atttention.
William
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That's interesting, because I was looking at the 1891 census for Rotherham Workhouse, and there is a Richard Turton Married 66 Coal Miner born Derbyshire. It looks like he died the following year and was buried 25 May 1892 at Moorgate Cemetery.
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Have also just read the newspaper article about the child cruelty case - horrendous. It was actually reported up and down the land (search Marian Turton in 1895). Ella Spooner was given five years acording to the criminal registers.
Caroline Turton seems to be a widow by 1911. There is a 1901 census entry for a Marie Turton 20 years old and working as a servant in the same part of co Down as William and Caroline - I do hope that this is Marian. (pob is given as Portsmouth).
Added; There appears to be a marriage for Marie Antoinette Turton in Belfast Jul - Sep 1904. Newspaper notice indicates she married Edgar John Smith. Pretty sure they moved to Devon - probate for her in 1952. There is a death for Caroline A Turton b 1863 in the Axminster RD in 1830. Although there are issues with Marie A's year of birth I do think this is Marian (she and Edgar J can be found in both the 1911 census and 1939 register).
William
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Just to tie up Marie Antionette Turton/Hancock prior to the 1891 census. I think this is Marie in 1881 with first partner James Healey and daughter Lillian living in Southwark.
James Healy 21 Tipton, Staffordshire
Marie Healy 19 Bradford, Yorkshire
Lillian Healy 1 Southwark, Surrey, England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-7NZZ
It looks like the ages of their children were misleading in the 1891 census - Lillian born 1890 and James 1882 I couldn't find a marriage for James and Marie and both their children were registered with the surname Turton and middle name Healey as James below
JAMES HERBERT HEALEY TURTON No mothers maiden name
GRO Ref June Qrter 1882 ST SAVIOUR SURREY Vol 01D Page 18
In 1884 there was a further child William Henry Healey Turton who died in 1885
Added- In addition Annie Long b1882 (who was living as a niece with Marie and family in 1891) was I think the daughter of Marie's sister Caroline and registered as Annie Browning Long with mother's maiden name Turton in 1882. Annie was baptised in 1885 at St Mary Newington with birth date listed as 5 Dec 1881 and parents Robert (deceased) and Caroline Long
Another child of Robert Long and Caroline Turton was Nettie Marie Long b 1876 Bradford and in 1881 was living with her grandmother Mary A Edwards in Southwark (presumably Marie Antionette's mother!!! :) )
Mary A. Edwards 39 Retired Equestrian married b New Bridge, Glamorgan,
Nellie Long 4 Grandchild b Bradford
By 1891 Nettie appears to be still living with her grandmother who was now Annie Pike with husband John in Hammersmith!
John Pike 48 Exeter Devon
Annie Pike 49 Bridgend South Wales
Netty Long 14 Granddaughter b Bradford
What an amazingly complicated family!
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That's great work, Kay!
From your prompt wonder of this is Lilian's marriage
21 Oct 1900 Lambeth
Frederick Arthur Monnery 21 carman
Lilian Turton Healy 21 Father James Healey dec. engineer.
Both of 133 Lambeth Rd. Witnesses John Perrey and Annie Ward
Daughter born to this couple Marie Lillian Monnery - baptised Lambeth 24 Nov 1901.
William
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Annie Pike in 1901 is probably showing as Mary A Pike
48 Greyhound Rd Fulham
John Pike 70 Chartered Accountant 70 b Devon
Mary A Pike 60 b S Wales Newbridge
There is a possible marriage of John Pike and Mary Anne Turton in Fulham RD Jul - Sep 1893.
Possible death for John Pike Fulham RD Apr - June 1902.
Nettie Long seems to have married George Baker in Brentford in 1894 - family emigrated to Canada 1912.
Still no sign of Marie Antoinette in 1901!
William
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Fantastic work Kay.
I'm wondering if in 1901 Marie is the Marie Ryan 38 born Bradford living with Samuel Ryan in the same house as Frederick & Lillian Monnery? RG13/406/100/64
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Fantastic work Kay.
I'm wondering if in 1901 Marie is the Marie Ryan 38 born Bradford living with Samuel Ryan in the same house as Frederick & Lillian Monnery? RG13/406/100/64
You beat me to it - I agree. Samuel is listed as single in the next census
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Just found an interesting couple of army service records for a James Edward Healey born Lambeth 1883 (He seems to have attested in 1904 and then transferred to the East Surrey Regt. later that year).
The first names his mother as Marie Healey of 4 Maxwell Terrace Westminster
The second has his mother's name as Marie Tindall of 72 Tower Street Lambeth (This is then crossed out to show his next of kin as his wife Alice Gentlar Head who he married 26 Oct 1913 at Holy Trinity Church Westminster ). The marriage cert. gives his address as 143 Regency Street and his father as James Healey dec,engineer.
William
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One of Jim's previous threads also made reference to the Healey's and name changes of James http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=787148.msg6429131#msg6429131