RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: RareSheel on Thursday 15 February 18 20:09 GMT (UK)
-
Can anyone help me please.
Samuel Popple born about 1837 Thorne Cambridgeshire and died in one of the Zulu Wars 22 Jan 1879
Rosina Kreemer (sometimes surname is spelled differently) born about 1830 Germany
They were married 12 March 1860 Peterborough Northamptonshire kind of marriage certificate from Ancestry.
I have found them in 1861 Peterborough Rosina was then called Rose their was a child Frederick Popple (son) born about 1857 Rotherham.
Samuel deserted his wife and child in 1863 and was committed to prison for a month with hard labour. Rosina and Frederick were chargeable to the common fund of the Union (I think this was the Peterborough Union). Found this on FindMyPast Newspapers. I cannot find anything else of Rosina or Frederick after this or Frederick Birth.
I have found everything of Samuel 2nd Marriage to Mary Search nee Avery. I have found everything of Mary and their children.
Sheel
-
What was Samuel’s marital status when he married Mary?
What are the details from his marriage to Rosina in 1860? Had she been married before (at 31 in 1861 she was plenty old enough to have been)? Is there an indication in the criminal proceedings that Samuel was the father of Frederick, born (so it seems) quite a bit before their marriage?
-
I see that Samuel was Private Samuel Popple of the 2nd 24th Regiment, who was killed at Isandhlwana on 22 January 1879, according to the 1935 newspaper announcement of the death of his wife Mrs Mary A. Popple, at Dover.
-
I have found them in 1861 Peterborough Rosina was then called Rose their was a child Frederick Popple (son) born about 1857 Rotherham.
So the chances are that his birth wasn't registered as Popple if they weren't married?
What are the details from his marriage to Rosina in 1860?
According to the marriage certificate, which is on Ancestry, she was a spinster, so I wonder what stopped them marrying when Frederick was born?
-
1861 RG 9; Piece: 965; Folio: 130; Page: 9
Samuel Popple 22
Rose Popple 31
Frederick Popple 4
I suppose if these dates are right, maybe his parents wouldn't give permission for him to marry as he'd have been 18 when Fred was born and she would have been 27.
-
I see that they were recorded as 22 (Samuel) and 28 (Rosina) when they married on 12 March 1860.
-
Samuel has been to prison before so I wander whether he was in prison when they should have been married near when Frederick was born or that her parents didn't want her to get married to a person who has been in Prison.(just a thought) It looks like I will have to go to Rotherham at some time to see if I can find anything of Frederick that's when our son can take me.
Sheel
-
She would have been old enough to marry without consent of her parents. I see she was born on Germany - were her parents also in England?
How does he describe himself on his second marriage, divorce wasn't very common then and was expensive?
-
George Frederick Kremer was privately baptised in the parish of St Mary, Peterborough on 20 Sep 1857.
Mother: Rose Kremer, of Peterborough, single woman.
-
This one popped up first,
Kremer George Frederick 1859 —
1906 British Army Service Records
Westgate, Peterborough, Northamptonshire, England
wife Sarah Jane but the Sarah part is crossed out at 153 Clarendon Place, Dover
-
So is this him 1901? Note the name of one of his daughters. All children born Dover
RG13; Piece: 842; Folio: 88; Page: 34
Dover
George F Kremer 45 General Labourer Peterborough
Jane H Kremer 40 Dover
Fredrick A Kremer 16
Rose M E Kremer 14
Walter E W Kremer 12
Albert S Kremer 8
Daisy F Kremer 5
Henry J Kremer 3
-
Yes the Dover connection is interesting - given that that was where his stepmother Mary died later on.
-
His eldest children:
George Frederick Arthur Kremer, mmn Tyrrell, Mar qtr 1885 Dover
Rose Mary Elizabeth Kremer, mmn Tyrrell, Mar qtr 1887 Dover
-
Marriage
Marriages Mar 1885
KREMER George Frederick
Turrell Jane Hannah
Dover 2a 1131
-
His stepmother Mary Ann Popple (b abt 1844 Portsmouth) was a widowed charwoman in Dover in 1881, with four children - not including George Frederick Kremer.
RG11/1007/11/15.
-
Strange they both end up in Dover isn't it?
-
Looking at his attestation record of 1906, if I'm reading it correctly he says that he was in the South Wales Borderers for almost 9 years and bought himself out and was then in the RA for 12 years and was discharged at the end of his engagement. That could be why he can't be found in earlier censuses.
-
It looks as though George and Jane had separated by 1911 - he may have taken up with someone else, leaving her with their children.
-
Was thinking the same Groom...
Service Records Fold 3
Name: George Frederick Kremer
Enlistment Age: 25
Birth Date: abt 1858
Birth Place: Peterborough Northampton
Enlistment Year: 1883
Regiment: 1st Einque Ports d Ra
Regimental Number: 36814
Attestation Paper: Yes
Double checked and the military notes are as Krewer...info about marriage and children matches
-
It looks as though George and Jane had separated by 1911 - he may have taken up with someone else, leaving her with their children.
Could this be his death?
Deaths Sep 1919
Kremer George F 61
Portsmouth 2b 540
-
Ah yes - “Krewer”.
So as at 1883 he had previously served for over 7 yrs in the 2/24th Regt - the same regiment that Samuel Popple had been in, according to Mary A Popple’s death notice as previously posted.
-
It looks as though George and Jane had separated by 1911 - he may have taken up with someone else, leaving her with their children.
Could this be his death?
Deaths Sep 1919
Kremer George F 61
Portsmouth 2b 540
Very likely. Jane H Kremer died in Dover in 1938, aged 76.
-
Distinctive marks for George: “extraordinary deep set small eyes” :)
Interesting that he was awarded the South Africa Medal for 1877, 1878 and 1879. Perhaps he fought alongside his father/stepfather Samuel Popple there?
-
Hi everyone I haven't been ignoring your posts I have read them all and I replied to them all only to find that they didn't all go threw :'(
Thank you everyone for your help the George Frederick Popple born 1857 in Peterborough seems to be a good one to look at I wander why they put him born about 1857 in Rotherham on the 1861 census with Samuel and Rose (Rosina) Popple.
Once again thank you all for you time and help in searching for Rosina and Frederick.
Hope this will go threw
Sheel