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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Merionethshire => Topic started by: paulsue38 on Friday 16 February 18 20:09 GMT (UK)
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Good evening, I am really struggling with locating the line of Evan Daniel Evans. As an adult he lived in Liverpool but on most Census's he states Dolgelly as place of birth. He sometimes drops the Evan and becomes Daniel. For some reason on the 1881 census he lists Newton, Monmouth as place of birth. Some trees have his father as Evan b 1781 who married Sarah Watkin b 1789 but I have nothing definitive to support this. I think Evan Daniel married Elizabeth Jones b 1830 in Holywell, Flintshire. I don't have a marriage date but they had my great grandfather John Thomas Evans here in 1859. Evan Daniel worked as a Grocer, in Liverpool and he died about 1887. In one census he was also described as a 'Traveller'.
I have reached a complete blank tracing this line so any help would be gratefully received.
Best wishes
Paul
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There is a possible marriage of those two names in Dollgellau itself in 1852.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Many thanks I will investigate this
Best wishes
Paul
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Hi Paul
the GRO index has John Thomas Evans registered in the December quarter of 1859 (Holywell) with a mothers maiden name of Jones. so that fits with you thinking Evan Daniel Evans married an Elizabeth Jones.
The 1852 (16 October 1852) possible marriage in Dolgelly between an Evan Evans (a weaver) and Elizabeth Jones gives parents names as Edward Jones (a malster) and Lewis Jones (a draper)?
Mar
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Many thanks for your reply. Evan Evan's father is names as Edward Jones on the marriage certificate do you think this is correct or an error as the brides father is a Jones?
Best wishes
Paul
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Hi Paul
I looked at it twice, as the names didn't match :)
I suppose it could be a mistake by the clerk; neither Evan or Elizabeth could write and signed with a mark.
The witnesses were Owen Thomas (mark of) and Mery James
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This is proving very difficult to solve!
Elizabeth's birth in Holywell varies on the Census's when residing in Liverpool from 1825 - 1830. Hence, her parentage and precise d.o.b is not yet known. She had four boys. William b 1856, John Thomas 1858, Richard 1859 and Peter 1864. Peter may have been born in Liverpool the others in Mold/Holywell.
The parentage of Elizabeths spouse Evan Daniel Evans born abt 1822 in Dolgelly is still unknown. They both appear on the 1861, 1881 Census in Liverpool and Evan appears on the children's marraige certificates in Liverpool. Evan is descrived as a Grocer on one census and a 'Traveller' on another.
Evan does not appear on the 1871 Census inthe family household. Did he go to prison? I did see one report of a transportation to Australia for an Evan Daniel Evans, a Grocer, yet he is back in Liverpool for the 1881 census. Can anyone provide some assistance?
Bestwishes
Paul
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Hi Paul, may bear no relation to your Evan Daniel Evans, and apologies for the use of google translate (which doesn't totally translate ;D sorry)
Newspaper - Baner ac Amserau Cymru 14 November 1860
Mold-Monday, week end-eddaf brought Evan Daniel Evans, and fn is a Baptist Minister in mold, the magistrates of ven under the accusation of granting his house on under on Sunday morning, the 4th of this month, before leaving to fyned to Ruthyn. We found that until about two hours, but the cymmydogion every cynnorthwv to extinguish what made before the advent of machinery to the place. The test was postponed.
Mar
Edit ***
Wrexham Advertiser 17 November 1860
Evan Daniel Evans is formally committed to take his trial at the March assizes for the offence as stated in our last. He was bailed on Saturday evening last at LLwynegrm by H Raikes, esq.
Seems also to link to the 10 year penal sentence
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Evan was a grocer in Liverpool and the shop in this case was in Mold so don't think they are related. However, the name does fit and the children were born in Mold so who knows? An interesting case though sounds like he was transported to Australia!
Best wishes
Paul
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:)
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The tranportation records have him leaving on the 'Merchantman' - 10years. I don't see him coming back though.
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Missing from The 1871 Census. But on the 1881 census he is described as a 'traveller' so could have just been away from his Liverpool home on Census night.
On the 1881 census in Liverpool I notice that Elizabeth Evans nee Jones has a Nephew living with her. His date of birth is 1858 and place of birth Ruthin. I am hoping that this may give me a link to the correct Elizabeth Jones.
Best wishes
Paul
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Hi Paul, can you give the references for Evan and Elizabeth in the 1881census please
thanks
Mar :)
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It seems to me that the location is correct as the marriage you have quoted is in the Holywell,Flintshire district and the record for the 1861 trial in which Evan Daniel Evans is found guilty of "arson of a dwelling house" is at Flintshire Assizes.
Further,the family I think(minus Evan) can be found at RG10/3839/130/46 in1871-Wood Street,West Derby where the last two children are given as born in Wales(1860),Lancashire(1862?)
Regards
Roger
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The 1881 reference is
RG11/3667/34/11
Regards
Roger
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Roger thanks for posting. In the court case he was travelling to Ruthin and that's were his nephew was from, who was in the Liverpool property in 1881. The plot thickens!! Aside to this course case I have still not ascertained who is parents were and why in the final census his place of birth suddenly changes from Dolgelly to Newton, Montgomeryshire. His DOB also changes in the final census from 1822 to 1877. My DNA results did find distant cousins in Iowa so I assume Evan is related to the pioneers that left to the New world and settled in that state.
Best wishes
Paul
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I suppose it is possible that John Jones in the 1881 census is the nephew of Elizabeth,not Evan.I don't think they would have written "nephew in law".
Regards
Roger
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In case the arson case is the same man, here is another article which talks about him also being a Baptist preacher, as well as a shop owner
Mar :)
Edit
Chester Chronicle 06 April 1861
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What date would that be? Interesting that the 1861 Census was held 7th April so he wouldn't be there :)
Sorry ignore - November 1860 :-X
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Although I got the wrong date in previous post, it would be worth doing search on the 1861 to see where he was held.
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Speculation
He is visiting his sister in law in Ruthin,where the nephew John Jones is from in the 1881 census.This suggests to me that it is Elizabeth's sister.So I think in the 1861 census we are looking for a female Jones,born Holywell(as Elizabeth) living in Ruthin with a son John,born 1858/1859.
There is one such,Anne Jones,wife of Joseph,who,in the 1871 census is given as a joiner,the same as John in 1881.
1861 RG09/4290/74/26
1871 RG10/5661/25/3
(Need to check this John is not in Ruthin in 1881)
Regards
Roger
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I have just had another look at a letter I received recently from my cousin and it states 'A relative was a vicar in Mold'
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Although I got the wrong date in previous post, it would be worth doing search on the 1861 to see where he was held.
I'm not sure how to interpret the information in the remarks column :) but the England and Wales Crime and Punishment images for the Evan Daniel Evans committed for arson, says he is 35 (age on conviction), where - Mold; when - 28th March 1861; sentence 10 years; remarks column - Portland 3rd Feb 1864
Edit
The information posted earlier about the transportation to Australia fits the above person with the date of conviction
Name: Evan Daniel Evans
Vessel: Merchantman
Convicted Date: 28 Mar 1861
Voyage Date: 29 Jun 1864
Colony: Western Australia
Place of Conviction: Flint, Flintshire, Wales
Mar
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Portland 3rd Feb 1864
Sounds as if it might be on one of those prison ships and he didn't get to Australia. Many didn't. Somewhere there are records for them but can't remember where at the moment.
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Portland 3rd Feb 1864
Sounds as if it might be on one of those prison ships and he didn't get to Australia. Many didn't. Somewhere there are records for them but can't remember where at the moment.
Just added more to the above message Gadget ;D
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The tranportation records have him leaving on the 'Merchantman' - 10years. I don't see him coming back though.
So was he held in one of the ships off Portland and then boarded the Merchantman in June 1864.
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There is also a record saying he returned in January 1876.
Regards
Roger
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Many thanks for all the replies to the interesting case of Evan Daniel Evans. I have just had it confirmed that the Evan in the court case in Mold was indeed my Great, Great Grandfather.
However, some of the other family details have changed.
It now appears that Evan's parents were Evan b 1799(possibly in Llanbrynmair, Montgoneryshire) and Anne Jones born 1791 (possibly Pont Dolgudfan) If anyone can help to confirm this I would be grateful.
In addition, it looks as if Evan married Elizabeth Edwards in 1853 in Ruabon. Can anyone help with the ancestory of Elizabeth? I think the father was Robert Edwards a Slater.
Best wishes
Paul
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Hope this helps
Mar
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Many thanks for all the replies to the interesting case of Evan Daniel Evans. I have just had it confirmed that the Evan in the court case in Mold was indeed my Great, Great Grandfather.
However, some of the other family details have changed.
It now appears that Evan's parents were Evan b 1799(possibly in Llanbrynmair, Montgoneryshire) and Anne Jones born 1791 (possibly Pont Dolgudfan) If anyone can help to confirm this I would be grateful.
In addition, it looks as if Evan married Elizabeth Edwards in 1853 in Ruabon. Can anyone help with the ancestory of Elizabeth? I think the father was Robert Edwards a Slater.
Best wishes
Paul
As far as looking further for Robert Edwards and Elizabeth etc,the unfortunate fact here is that there is that the 1841 Census for the Ruabon area is missing.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Paul,
what information have you already got to think Evan Daniel's parents were Evan b 1799(possibly in Llanbrynmair, Montgoneryshire) and Anne Jones born 1791 (possibly Pont Dolgudfan) please
Mar
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I had a look for Elizabeth Davies' baptism in the Ruabon area but the only ones around that time with Robert as a father had one with occupation as stonemason and the other one as a collier. Both non-c.
Gadget
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Thanks for taking the time to look Do you mean Elizabeth Edwards? Although they were married in Ruabon, Elizabeth lists Holywell, Flintshire on the census.
Best wishes
Paul
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Sorry - yes. The cold is getting to my brain :-X
Add - just checked again - it was definitely Elizabeth Edwards that I looked for!
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The one in Flintshire has Robert as a labourer and was in Nercwys.
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OK will keep looking, the marriage certificate indicates that he was a slater. In terms of Evan it looks like he had siblings who could have been, John, 1826 William 1822, Mary 1830, Ann 1833. Evan snr and Ann Jones were both Wool weavers. It looks as if Evan jnr had a second baptism at the Juda Particular Baptist Chapel in West St. Dogellau.
Paul
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Have hit a brick wall with the parents of Evan Daniel Evans. I think his birth date was
3 Dec 1823
Birth Place
Llanbrynmair, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Father
Evan Evans
Mother
Anne Jones
Baptism Date
28 Dec 1823
Baptism Place
Capel Newyd, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Denomination
Calvinistic Methodist
Hi parents would have been born around 1790 - 1800 and were weavers by occupation. Any ideas?
Best wishes
Paul
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On the marriage of Evan jnr does it state that Evan snr is deceased?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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No does not mention it
paul
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The 1841 census for Machynlleth shows an Ann Evans born c 1797 who is showing as a weaver,on her own with several children including an Evan born c 1824.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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That's interesting thanks for looking. I have a feeling Evan had already left the family home and I have him elsewhere in 1841. Nothing about this family is straightforward!
Best wishes
Paul
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Sorry to restart this thread but I have made no progress and hit a wall with Evan Daniel Evans!
For those new to the thread Evan was my 2nd great grandfather. He was quite a 'rogue' and was transported to Australia for 10 years for Arson in Mold.
He appears to have been born in Pont Dolgadfan in 1823 to a very religious Calvinist Baptist family. From what I understand he seems to have presented himself for baptism a second time on the day after his eighth birthday. On this occasion he attended the Juda Particular Baptist Chapel in West St. Dogellau.
He 'claimed to be a 'Baptist minister' as an adult and practised in the Mold area. He was married to Elizabeth Edwards in Ruabon in 1853. Elizabeth is described as a servant of Pen y Bryn and her father, Robert Edwards, as a slater. Evans father (also Evan Evans) is described as a weaver.
The only family that I can find that might be Evans are from Carno/Llanbrynmair and are called Evan Evans(b 1784) and Anne Jones(b 1791?) they are weavers. However, although this looks very promising, on other family trees on Ancestry Evan jnr does not appear at all and having contacted an Ancestry member he has no knowledge of an Evan. Interestingly this family had a William born 1822 who did seem to become a preacher.
No idea were to look next so any advice or further links would be really welcome.
Best wishes
Paul