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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: PurpleOwl333 on Friday 16 February 18 20:42 GMT (UK)

Title: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Friday 16 February 18 20:42 GMT (UK)
Good evening all,

I'm researching a lady named May. She married William New on 7 Jun 1880 and her surname was recorded as BARCHAM though it may be BAREHAM. I'm finding it difficult to tell from the writing on the marriage cert. Her father's name was recorded as George, a labourer and her age is recorded as 22, so if this is correct she'd be born abt 1858.

The 1891-1911 Censuses state her place of birth as Clacton, Essex.

I was struggling to find a birth record for her so thought I'd try and find her birth surname through the FreeBMD and GRO indexes for their children. That's when I got really confused!

I've put together a spreadsheet highlighting their children who were recorded on the 1891-1911 Censuses but the mother's names on the GRO site vary between BARCHAM, BAREHAM, BURCHAM and BARHAM.  ??? https://drive.google.com/open?id=1us1fcHdaOPxs2vUd1Pu_frrGwgvN9rv0 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1us1fcHdaOPxs2vUd1Pu_frrGwgvN9rv0)

Their daughter Mable/Mabel (b.1889 going by her age on the Censuses) doesn't seem to be recorded on the GRO site at all.

Any help sorting this out is greatly appreciated, thanks!
Laura
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 16 February 18 20:55 GMT (UK)
Hi

1871 has her surname as Bareham - as Mary Ann, Father George / ag lab

Tendring, Little Clacton RG10/1676/80/11


Gadget
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Friday 16 February 18 21:11 GMT (UK)
Hi

1871 has her surname as Bareham - as Mary Ann, Father George / ag lab

Tendring, Little Clacton RG10/1676/80/11


Gadget

Thanks very much for that Gadget!!  ;D
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 16 February 18 21:19 GMT (UK)
This possibly her birth reg:

2 Q, 1858, Tendring, 4a, 195

As Mary Ann Bearham

Mother's first name was Harriet on 1871  - not checked on GRO for surname.

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 16 February 18 21:45 GMT (UK)
BEARHAM, MARY  ANN     ALDERTON     
GRO Reference: 1858  J Quarter in TENDRING  Volume 04A  Page 195
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 16 February 18 21:50 GMT (UK)
So we're looking for a George <whatever> marrying a Harriet Alderton sometime circa 1855-6 ish. Charles, brother, was 14 on the 1871.

Gadget
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 16 February 18 21:53 GMT (UK)
Marriages Mar 1855   
ALDERTON    Harriet        Samford    4a   673   
Bearham    George        Samford    4a   673
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 03:50 GMT (UK)
Thank you both for that.

So am I right in thinking that with the variety of spellings similar to hers on my spreadsheet with GRO info, the only way I'm gonna be able to sort out which children are theirs is to order all 21 birth certificates?  :-\
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: bbart on Saturday 17 February 18 05:28 GMT (UK)
the only way I'm gonna be able to sort out which children are theirs is to order all 21 birth certificates?  :-\

The 1911 census for the family states they had a total of 17 children, of which only ten were still living.
I think you should turn over every stone (baptisms, burials, etc) before resorting to buying that many birth certificates!
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 06:54 GMT (UK)
the only way I'm gonna be able to sort out which children are theirs is to order all 21 birth certificates?  :-\

The 1911 census for the family states they had a total of 17 children, of which only ten were still living.
I think you should turn over every stone (baptisms, burials, etc) before resorting to buying that many birth certificates!

You betcha I will bbart  ;D ;D
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: bbart on Saturday 17 February 18 07:20 GMT (UK)
I haven't dug into the George William New on your list yet, but he has a few red flags as to being one of William and May's.

First, having no mothers maiden name on GRO is usually a sign of an out of wedlock marriage, so the New Surname would be the mother's maiden name.  Secondly, they (William and May) had four children baptised all baptised in 1886 over a couple days, and he wasn't included although age-wise, he was between the youngest and oldest baptised (unless of course, he was no longer living).

I have not looked to see if he is on the censuses with them, but if he is, he could be an illegitimate nephew?

The batch of baptisms:
On two separate days in March 1886, William and May, platelayer, 20 Mary Place, had four children baptised at St Clements, Notting Hill. 

Arthur bap. on Mar 24, born 10 Dec 1885
Ethel, bap. on Mar 24, born 15 Mar 1883

Lily, bap Mar 28, born 10 May 1884
William Herbert, bap Mar 28, born 07 Sept 1881

Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 17 February 18 07:24 GMT (UK)
A bit off  the subject but Mary Anns Fathers info;

GEORGE Bareham Baptised 22 Dec 1833, St James, Little Clacton
Parents GEORGE/SUSAN
Abode Lt Clacton, Father a Labourer
Siblings Baptisms;
SUSANNA Barehaam 26 Jun 1822, buried 20 Sep 1822 age 3mths
MARY ANN Bareham 17 Feb 1827
EMMA Bareham 14 Oct 1832
CHARLES Bareham 06 Sep 1835
PHOEBE Bareham 09 Jul 1839
(just had a quick look may be other children)

As Phoebe was Bapt July 1839 possible GRO Birth Reg;
BARCHAM, PHOEBE, Mothers mn   SCOFFIELD****
GRO Reference: 1839  M Quarter in TENDRING  Volume 12  Page 240
Or;
BARCHAM, PHOEBE , Mothers mn BARNARD****
GRO Reference: 1839  S Quarter in TENDRING  Volume 12  Page 249

Death Reg GRO;
BEARHAM, GEORGE, age 41*****
GRO Reference: 1840  D Quarter in TENDRING  Volume 12  Page 187
(FreeREG has Burial 30 Sep 1840)

1851 Census Susan is a Widow;
Susan Bareham, 50, Head, Widow, Ag labs Widow, born Lavenham, Suffolk
Phoebe Bareham, 11, Daug

1841 in Little Clacton;
Susan Barham, 42
Susanna Barham, 11
Emma Barham, 9
GEORGE Barham, 7****
Charles Barham, 5
Phoebe Barham, 2

Trish :)

Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 17 February 18 07:36 GMT (UK)
Marriage of George BAREHAM to Susan SCOFFIELD 16 Oct 1821 St James Little Clacton, is on FreeREG
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 17 February 18 07:47 GMT (UK)
The marriage certificate that you have, 1880, can you please list all the information about William, and about May, and their fathers, also addresses and occupations.....also witnesses names, and the Church.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: bbart on Saturday 17 February 18 08:01 GMT (UK)
Aha!  I found one that can be removed...

The last one on your spreadsheet, Albert John R, born kensington 1901.  His baptism puts his father as Albert New and mother Hannah.   Albert New married Hannah BURNHAM in 1884 (from freebmd).
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 17 February 18 08:23 GMT (UK)
There are 13 baptisms on Ancestry with parents William & May.  Link below

https://tinyurl.com/y9soh75t

Shortened as it was way too long to put on here.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 17:05 GMT (UK)
I haven't dug into the George William New on your list yet, but he has a few red flags as to being one of William and May's.

First, having no mothers maiden name on GRO is usually a sign of an out of wedlock marriage, so the New Surname would be the mother's maiden name.  Secondly, they (William and May) had four children baptised all baptised in 1886 over a couple days, and he wasn't included although age-wise, he was between the youngest and oldest baptised (unless of course, he was no longer living).

I have not looked to see if he is on the censuses with them, but if he is, he could be an illegitimate nephew?

The batch of baptisms:
On two separate days in March 1886, William and May, platelayer, 20 Mary Place, had four children baptised at St Clements, Notting Hill. 

Arthur bap. on Mar 24, born 10 Dec 1885
Ethel, bap. on Mar 24, born 15 Mar 1883

Lily, bap Mar 28, born 10 May 1884
William Herbert, bap Mar 28, born 07 Sept 1881

Thanks for these  ;D I'm not sure about George William as although he does 'fit in' nicely as you said, his reg date is 1882 and they were married in 1880. He isn't on any censuses. Actually there were only 9 children in total listed on the 1891-1911 censuses.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 17:05 GMT (UK)
Marriage of George BAREHAM to Susan SCOFFIELD 16 Oct 1821 St James Little Clacton, is on FreeREG

Thanks very much trish  ;D
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 17 February 18 17:15 GMT (UK)
In case you haven't looked at the Ancestry baptisms the children listed are:-

Ethel, Lily, Arthur & William Herbert bapt. 1886, Alice bapt. 1887, Mabel bapt. 1889, Albert bapt. 1890, Ernest Henry bapt. 1893, Louisa bapt. 1895, Bert bapt. 1896, Harry bapt. 1897, Frederick George bapt. 1898 and Edith bapt. 1899.

All have William and May in the relatives column.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 17:22 GMT (UK)
The marriage certificate that you have, 1880, can you please list all the information about William, and about May, and their fathers, also addresses and occupations.....also witnesses names, and the Church.

William New, 23, Bachelor, Labourer, 116 Bramby Road (? not very clear)
Father: Henry New, Labourer

May Bareham (transcribed as Barcham), 22, Spinster, 41 Talbot Grove
Father: George, Labourer

Witnesses: Henry & Mary Pearce

Church: Parish Church, St Mark, Notting Hill


Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 17:25 GMT (UK)
Aha!  I found one that can be removed...

The last one on your spreadsheet, Albert John R, born kensington 1901.  His baptism puts his father as Albert New and mother Hannah.   Albert New married Hannah BURNHAM in 1884 (from freebmd).

Brilliant, thanks!  ;D
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 17:27 GMT (UK)
In case you haven't looked at the Ancestry baptisms the children listed are:-

Ethel, Lily, Arthur & William Herbert bapt. 1886, Alice bapt. 1887, Mabel bapt. 1889, Albert bapt. 1890, Ernest Henry bapt. 1893, Louisa bapt. 1895, Bert bapt. 1896, Harry bapt. 1897, Frederick George bapt. 1898 and Edith bapt. 1899.

All have William and May in the relatives column.

Great help, thanks very much for that. I've updated all the info now. I also modified the search to remove the location in the hope I could find Elizabeth who was on the census and GRO have an Elizabeth Louisa reg at Fulham. Unfortunately no joy re baptism and I can't place them there, yet.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: bbart on Saturday 17 February 18 18:26 GMT (UK)
William and May were married 07 June 1880..... nine months later son William was born 28 Mar 1881.  So Elizabeth must have been an "oops" of May's (or William and May) prior to marriage or another relative's child that they took in?

Correction..... William was born 07 Sept 1881.   Still not enough time to fit one more child in.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 18:56 GMT (UK)
William and May were married 07 June 1880..... nine months later son William was born 28 Mar 1881.  So Elizabeth must have been an "oops" of May's (or William and May) prior to marriage or another relative's child that they took in?

Perhaps, yeah. Interestingly on the 1891 census it has daughter Elizabeth as being 11 and William & Lily (Lillie) as 9 implying they were twins.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: bbart on Saturday 17 February 18 19:04 GMT (UK)
. Interestingly on the 1891 census it has daughter Elizabeth as being 11 and William & Lily (Lillie) as 9 implying they were twins.

With that many kids, I doubt I could keep the names straight, let alone their ages!

Has this family been found on the 1881 census?  I am not having any luck locating it.  ???
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: bbart on Saturday 17 February 18 19:16 GMT (UK)
Please note the correction on Reply 22.... I posted the wrong birthdate for son William, but it doesn't help fit Elizabeth in, unless she was born within a few months of the marriage, which would all work out fine.
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 19:46 GMT (UK)
. Interestingly on the 1891 census it has daughter Elizabeth as being 11 and William & Lily (Lillie) as 9 implying they were twins.

With that many kids, I doubt I could keep the names straight, let alone their ages!

Has this family been found on the 1881 census?  I am not having any luck locating it.  ???

 ;D ;D I remember getting raised eyebrows having 4 let alone this little lot!  ;D

No, the 1881 census is hiding from me also  >:(
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Saturday 17 February 18 19:51 GMT (UK)
Please note the correction on Reply 22.... I posted the wrong birthdate for son William, but it doesn't help fit Elizabeth in, unless she was born within a few months of the marriage, which would all work out fine.

Thanks, no probs, I take the dob's from the docs. She likely was born within a few months of the marriage.

I've done another spreadsheet of deaths, so gonna see if I can cross ref those with baptisms
Title: Re: May Barcham...Bareham...Burcham...Barham...?
Post by: PurpleOwl333 on Sunday 18 February 18 11:49 GMT (UK)
Quick update: After much hair pulling I've tracked the 17 children. Thanks to those who helped