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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: cinny22 on Saturday 17 February 18 07:31 GMT (UK)
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Hi, have been really "charged" with enthusiasm on all the information given by other peoples in this forum.
They have all been so helpful and i have been tirelessly doing my Paumier tree. I have made an excellent start, but would like to see if i could get some real opinions about the origins of our family back in France?
I do now know the language, and think this will hinder me enormously!
Can i have your thought on the only blood relative we have? We have a year date and a place.
He was: Pierre (Peter) Paumier born 1725, Bordeaux, Ginonde, Aquistaine, France.
He was the brother of my Gx's Grandfather Jean. Unfortunately, we only know his date of Birth as 1722.......nothing else.
My thoughts were that if we were to find "any information" on Pierre, this would lead to the origins of our lost family in France.
Being that we have their Father's name of Jean Paumier, but no Mother's name, would it be possible in any one's opinion to actually find Pierre's Birth Certificate?
The only other bit of information we have is that the parents of Jean and Pierre, were the owners of "Chateau Clarac" near Bordeaux.
Really hoping some one can be of help?
Best wishes to all...........sincerely, Shirley.......cinny22
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1725 Bordeaux is not digitized yet.
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Thanks for letting me know. :(
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I can't find a Château Clarac near Bordeaux , there is one near Toulouse though. There are several "Château Clairac" nearer Bordeaux.
Do you have information concerning the descendants of Pierre Paumier, or Jean his brother?
Bordeaux is in Gironde (not Ginonde ), Aquitaine (nowadays spelling)
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Yes, thanks, both Jean and Pierre fled to Ireland in fear of persecution around 1740. Here they educated themselves and became prosperous by setting up the first Sugar refinery in Dublin.
We have them well documented once they hit Ireland, but can't seem to find ANYTHING going back further. Seeing that the records are not yet available to the public...........i don't like my chances.
I only know that their father's name was Jean Paumier.............sorry good people.
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Do you mean they were protestants?
The registers are available but you have to go to Bordeaux to read them. They aren't digitized.
I can try and ask someone on a french forum to go and read them.
Added: you give 2 different years in your first post : 1725 and 1722 . Can you check them and be precise?
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Hi, yes they were Protestants. Jean Paumier was born 1722 while Pierre was born 1725. There are some rumors that Jean was born in Bordeaux Aquitaine, France?
As i said before their Father's name was also Jean.
Jean married on the 25th May 1748, Dublin, Ireland to Susanna Noble. As i said, we have them well documented from here on.
My best to you all.
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By the way, It was just Jean and Pierre that changed their religion. Apparently Jean Paumier(sen) and Madam Paumier were strict Catholics.
Thanks once again.
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Was Jean born in 1713 ?...if so - the only tree I can find with Pierre born 1722 - he died 1776 aged 54 - I hope it is your Pierre
https://gw.geneanet.org/perierfrancis?n=paumier&oc=&p=pierre
ADDED - I have just noticed that Jean died aged 2 in 1715 - so I presume not your Pierre ...never mind..sorry I thought Pierre was born 1722 - I see now it was 1725 ...worth a try
have a look on www.geneanet.org - 160 results :'(
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Hi Ya, Thanks for trying. Both Jean and Pierre, altho born in Bordeaux, fled France around 1740 to Ireland.............where both married, had children and Died in Dublin. Ireland.
Thanks again for your persistence.
They are such a mystery. Best wishes.
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I was about to ask where did they marry , were the brides French?
Have you tried to find their wills?
Every bit of information is useful for those who search.
I will post right now for a look up in the original registers of Bordeaux , but it is a big town, and you don't have a precise date of birth. I wonder if someone will take the challenge.
ADDED: I have posted a request for a look-up. I will let you know what comes out.
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By the way, It was just Jean and Pierre that changed their religion. Apparently Jean Paumier(sen) and Madam Paumier were strict Catholics.
Thanks once again.
How do you know that the parents were still catholics?
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Are they brothers of Isabelle aka Elisabeth PAUMIER, wife of Jean VILLEBOIS, also a sugar refiner in Dublin ?
Sugar Refiners and Sugarbakers Database - Bryan Mawer Website
www.mawer.clara.net/sugarvv.html
Traduire cette page
VIGNEAU, Isaac, -, (his death aged 75), (King's St, near St Stephen's Green), Dublin, 1766, Freeman's Journal 08.11.1766. VILLEBOIS, John, -, -, Hawkins St, Dublin, 1760, Wilson's Dublin Directory 1760. VILLMER, Christopher, of Hanover, (age 20), (22 Back Church Lane), London, 1861, 1861 census RG9 /276 /3.
https://archive.org/stream/registersoffrenc07stpa/registersoffrenc07stpa_djvu.txt
Jean Villebois. — Jean, fils de Mr. Jean Yillebois et de Mademoiselle Villebois, sa femme,
est né le premier jour du mois d’Avril, mil sept cens trente et sept, et a esté baptizé, le vingt et
cinquième du dit mois, par Monsieur Louis Scoffier, un des ministres de cette eglise ; a eu pour
parin, son pere, et pour marine, Madlle. Françoise Paumier.
L. Scoffier, Ministre.
Pierre Villebois.— Pierre Villebois, fils de Jean Villebois et d’Elizabet Villebois, est né le
20 e Aoust, 1738, et a été baptisé le 7 Septembre de la même année, par Monsr. Scoffier, ministre
ordinaire de cette eglize ; a eu pour parrain, Jean Villebois, son pere, et Pierre Paumier, et pour
marraine, Elizabet Villebois, sa mere.
Jean Villebois et Izabelle Paumier. — Le vingt quatrième Octobre, mil sept cens
vingt huit, a esté béni par Mr. Fleury le mariage de Mr. Jean Villebois et de Madll 6 . Izabelle
Paumier.
A, P. Fleury.
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Hi Peoples,
Many thanks for your hard work. Now our history book for the Paumiers say that both Jean and Madam Paumier were very strict Catholics........sorry, we can only go by what was written down for us, via the history.
Now as far as Elisabeth PAUMIER, wife of Jean VILLEBOIS goes, as far as i know there were only the two brothers that fled to Dublin.
There is nothing in our "book" stating that a sister also joined them in Dublin. I guess this would be a big event in their lives, so i'm thinking that if it was not written, this would not be their Sister.
When Jean married Susanna Noble in Dublin, they had a Daughter called Elizabeth, but i believe she died young and unmarried.
Seems strange that another Paumier(not related) would be in Dublin around this same time tho' Not sure if the name "Paumier" would be a common name......you guys are making the mystery even more deeper......thanks a lot!
Not sure if it would be of any help to you, but i could send you the Pedigree Chart showing what they wrote about the family back in France, truly it's not much, but your welcome...............but i would not like it to be on the "net". Is there a way?
Thanks so much for your help...........best wishes.
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Hi, have been looking through our "Paumier History Book" and have sent you part of it's writings and would you believe, there is the name "Villebois". Please read, but please keep this private as you can, and if you can prevent it from going on the "net" please do so?
So the name "Villebois" is connected to our family...............wow, wow. Take care.
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You can use private messages to send information that you want to stay private."MY MESSAGES" in the brown line after PROFILE
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I do hope i have done the deleting correct............but of course, you got all the information first?
Many thanks.
The Isabella Paumier, who apparently married John Villebois, i'm thinking this could be Jean and Pierre's Aunt?
I can't see it being their sister as the date of her marriage Certificate was 24th Oct 1728, and she would have been at least 20yrs, so this would have her being born around 1700, and Jean and Pierre were born 1722 and 1725. Their parents would be too old............don't you think?
The other information you sent that was in French about I THINK two births of John and Isabella's Villebois's children??
Were their children called, Jean and Pierre Villebois?
I would dearly love to find a real connection...........you are all such a great help.
Bye again, and thanks again for your thoughts. Best wishes to all.....
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No, it's still here.
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Re: Paumier, Bordeaux. France
« Reply #14 on: Today at 03:25 » Click on modify next to quote and erase the part you don't want to be public
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Thank you all done now i believe................thanks you.
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I do hope i have done the deleting correct............but of course, you got all the information first?
Many thanks.
The Isabella Paumier, who apparently married John Villebois, i'm thinking this could be Jean and Pierre's Aunt?
I can't see it being their sister as the date of her marriage Certificate was 24th Oct 1728, and she would have been at least 20yrs, so this would have her being born around 1700, and Jean and Pierre were born 1722 and 1725. Their parents would be too old............don't you think?
The other information you sent that was in French about I THINK two births of John and Isabella's Villebois's children??
Were their children called, Jean and Pierre Villebois?
I would dearly love to find a real connection...........you are all such a great help.
Bye again, and thanks again for your thoughts. Best wishes to all.....
I also think she could be an aunt , a cousin .
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ol Vol 14: Registers of the French non-conformist churches of Lucy Lane and Peter Street, Dublin
Auteur : Eglise françoise de Lucy Lane (Dublin, Ireland), Eglise françoise de Peter Street (Dublin, Ireland), Huguenot Society of London, Le Fanu, Thomas Philip, 1858-1945
Edité en 1901
Reconnoissance de Jean Villebois.— Aujourdhuy Mecredy 26 Août, 1728, après l’action du soir. Monsieur Jean Villebois, natif de Clairac en Guienne, s’est présenté devant cette assemblée; lequel a protesté que depuis qu’il a ateint l’age de connoissance il n’a participé directement n’y indirectement a aucune idolâtrie n’y superstition de l’eglise Romaine, et après avoir pris Dieu a cette, assemblée que son dessein étoit de vivre et de mourir dans le professionde notre Ste Réligion, il a été receu a la paix de l’eglise par le ministère de Monsieur Gaillard, l’un de nos pasteurs.
Jean Villebois. F. Terson, sécrétaire.
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Another child of Jean VILLEBOIS and his wife is Mariane VILLEBOIS, baptized on July 5th 1730 (born on June 20th same year)
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https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairac_(Lot-et-Garonne)
http://erf.agen.pagesperso-orange.fr/histoire.htm
1533 : Implantation de la Réforme grâce à Marguerite d’Agoulême. 1562 : Clairac recueille plus de 10 000 coreligionnaires qui fuient les persécutions agenaises. 1598 : Clairac devient place de sûreté protestante avec une garnison de huit hommes. 1621 : Prise de la ville par Louis XIII qui assiste en personne au siège. Le temple est démoli. 1628 : Le temple est rebâti. 1683 : Fermeture et démolition du temple. 1687-1755 : période des « Déserts » 1752 : réorganisation clandestine de l’Eglise Réformée et d’importantes assemblées du Désert ont lieu autour du pasteur Grenier de Barmont. 1796 : Après la période de Terreur, le culte est autorisé. 1807 : le premier temple est construit et inauguré. 1820 : Clairac compte 3469 protestants sur 5068 habitants 1823 : le temple doit être démoli compte tenu du danger qu’il représente pour les fidèles. 1838 : Le grand temple de la Place Viçoze est en construction. Ce temple succède à deux temples : le premier situé là où se trouve l’actuelle place du marché démoli à la révocation de l’Edit de Nantes ; le second construit en 1807, est déclaré dangereux en 1823 et devra être démoli. Dissidence au sein du protestantisme clairacais. Elle donne naissance à trois églises protestantes : L’Eglise Darbyste en 1849 : L’Eglise Evangélique Libre « La Chapelle » en 1853 L’Eglise Réformée Evangélique « l’Oratoire » en 1869 En 1914-1948 les trois églises gardent leur organisation mais créent une Fédération des Eglises Protestantes de Clairac. En 1933, la rupture s’amorce. « La Chapelle » et « l’Oratoire » restent unis avec un seul pasteur.
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Gee they didn't have much of a rest from it all.........
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You wrote,
Another child of Jean VILLEBOIS and his wife is Mariane VILLEBOIS, baptized on July 5th 1730 (born on June 20th same year)
I don't think this is the same family we are seeking. Wasn't it Jean Villebois who married Isabella Paumier in 1728 in St. Andrew's.
I also see the name Elizabeth Villebois, referring to the wife of John or Jean..............do you think this could be mistaken for Isabella Paumier?
Bye again.
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Isabelle, Isabella, Isabeau, Elisabeth, Elizabeth it's all the same
The child is named Mariane. Not her mother.
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Thank you all so much for your help.
I have got a lot more now to work with and to finding my French Family, with yet another Paumier to add to my tree, altho' not knowing if she is Cousin or Sister i am still in advantage.
You have also provided me with three children that i can see:
Mariane June 1730
Jean April 1737
and Pierre August 1738.............all good family names, so i can see there is definitely a connection with Isabella. Why she is not mentioned in our Book is a bit beyond me, but perhaps their
G Grandson Mungo William Paumier (the author)was not aware of the other relatives existence?
Never the less, much thanks for all your help, God bless you, you all do great work and give much inspiration!!!!!!
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Clairac en Guienne (Guyenne , nowadays spelling) seems to be Clairac in the Lot-et-Garonne (departement number 47)
La Guyenne was a region before the revolution that comprises several actual departements (Gironde, Dordogne, Lot et Garonne , Lot , Aveyron)
ADDED :Clairac is written with different spellings in the book that gives the reconnaissance of Jean Villebois (Clairac; Clerac, Cleirac), but there is an act that gives "of La Sepede, près de Clairac (near Clairac). And I found Lacépède near Clairac in Lot -et -Garonne.