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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: rickyhpierre on Tuesday 20 February 18 19:19 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I have run into a brick wall with this, any help would be appreciated.
I am searching for the birth of Thomas John Batt from Barry Glamorgan, Wales.
Parents John Henry Batt, mother Martha Maria Begley.
His two siblings are Phillip Joseph Batt 29/Jan/1928 and Margaret A Batt 1933. He has 3 half siblings by his mother"s second marriage to James Williams
On his death certificate his brother Phillip Joseph Batt, gives his brother's birth date as 29/12/1929.
On two incoming passenger lists (Ancestry), Thomas gives his birth date as 29/12/1929. On the 1939 register (FindMyPast) Thomas's birthday is given as 29/12/1930. On his marriage certificate of 24/08/1957 he states that he is 27.
I tried a GRO search from 1928/1930 but they have no record of a birth. I have searched through 1929 1930 and 1931 civil births on Ancestry but have come up with nothing.
He is not to be confused with the Thomas John Batt 24/01/1930 born in Orsett Essex to Albert Hector Batt And Violet Mary Lindsey.
Thanks Ricky
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Have you eliminated this one? Fits with a December 1929 birth.
Births Mar 1930
Begley Thomas mmn Begley Cardiff
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Phillip Joseph Batt mother's maiden name Begley Jun qtr 1928 Cardiff
then Thomas Begley (as found by groom)
then birth registration Margaret A Begley mother's maiden name Begley Sept qtr 1933 Cardiff 11a 645
then same reg and district Margaret A Batt mother's maiden name Begley Sept qtr 1933 cardiff 11a 645
possibility is that John Henry Batt & Martha Maria Begley did not marry
Maybe John Henry registered Phillip Joseph's birth and told a little porkie?
and maybe he was present at the registration of Margaret A but told the truth??
I cannot find a marriage for John Henry and Martha Maria
and when Martha Maria married James Williams she used the name Begley (not Batt)
Certificates may help
Suz
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I cannot find a marriage for John Henry and Martha Maria
and when Martha Maria married James Williams she used the name Begley (not Batt)
That, together with the double registration of Margaret and Thomas being registered as Begley, does suggest that she didn't marry John Henry Batt.
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Have you eliminated this one? Fits with a December 1929 birth.
Births Mar 1930
Begley Thomas mmn Begley Cardiff
Hi groom,
No I had not seen this.
Although I had found no marriage for John Henry Batt and Martha Maria Begley, but Phillip Joseph Batt's birth certificate had both parents name with mothers maiden name Begley I thought that they were married. Seems not!
I think I will have to re visit the GRO and order a certificate for Thomas Begley.
Ricky
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Phillip Joseph Batt mother's maiden name Begley Jun qtr 1928 Cardiff
then Thomas Begley (as found by groom)
then birth registration Margaret A Begley mother's maiden name Begley Sept qtr 1933 Cardiff 11a 645
then same reg and district Margaret A Batt mother's maiden name Begley Sept qtr 1933 cardiff 11a 645
possibility is that John Henry Batt & Martha Maria Begley did not marry
Maybe John Henry registered Phillip Joseph's birth and told a little porkie?
and maybe he was present at the registration of Margaret A but told the truth??
I cannot find a marriage for John Henry and Martha Maria
and when Martha Maria married James Williams she used the name Begley (not Batt)
Certificates may help
Suz
Thanks Suz
Yes I think a certificate for both Thomas Begley and Margaret Batt are in order. I know it is the same family as they lived at the address in Barry from at least 1939 to 1957. I did see the Begley Williams marriage certificate and wonder
Thanks Ricky
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If you do order certs please let us know the outcome
Suz
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If you do order certs please let us know the outcome
Suz
According to freeBMD there are two entries for a Thomas Begley too, one dated 1930 and one in 1933. On the 1930 page a handwritten note at the bottom says "Begley Thomas Begley Cardiff 11a -see D'33". #COMMENT A similar record has been crossed out.
freeBMd is saying that this is a late entry and the first 1930 entry refers to this: Births 1933 Dec: BEGLEY,Thomas,Begley,Cardiff,11a,600. So it would seem it is the same person. I will order from the GRO tomorrow and post results when they arrive here in Colorado.
Cheers Ricky
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If you do order certs please let us know the outcome
Suz
Will have the order in tomorrow, and let you know what I find out. It takes a while for me to get the certificates here in Colorado usually ten days after they are dispatched.
Ricky
Are you aware that you can now order a PDF for births/deaths at a lower price?
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Not sure that includes a date as late as 1930 does it NJ? I’m sure I had to order a 1940 birth as a paper one recently.
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Good point groom....not had to order any that recent. :-[
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You are correct Groom,the website says......the PDF pilot covers...
Births: 1837 –1917
Deaths: 1837 –1957
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If you do order certs please let us know the outcome
Suz
Will have the order in tomorrow, and let you know what I find out. It takes a while for me to get the certificates here in Colorado usually ten days after they are dispatched.
Ricky
Are you aware that you can now order a PDF for births/deaths at a lower price?
Yes I order them when possible, but PDF's are not available for certificates after 1917.
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Yes I order them when possible, but PDF's are not available for certificates after 1917.
They are for deaths,but not births :)
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Yes I order them when possible, but PDF's are not available for certificates after 1917.
They are for deaths,but not births :)
I wish they were :) but GRO says: " The extended Pilot covers PDF copies of those historical digitised civil registration records held by GRO (i.e. birth entries from 1837 - 1917 and death entries from 1837 - 1957). A GRO index reference is required to be provided with the application. You can find the GRO index references by logging on to the GRO online ordering service and accessing the GRO online indexes. A PDF will cost £6.00 each."
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Yes I order them when possible, but PDF's are not available for certificates after 1917.
They are for deaths,but not births :)
I wish they were :) but GRO says: " The extended Pilot covers PDF copies of those historical digitised civil registration records held by GRO (i.e. birth entries from 1837 - 1917 and death entries from 1837 - 1957). A GRO index reference is required to be provided with the application. You can find the GRO index references by logging on to the GRO online ordering service and accessing the GRO online indexes. A PDF will cost £6.00 each."
So they ARE available for deaths after 1917........in fact right up to 1957.
My father in law died in March 1957 and his is available by PDF if required.
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I guess John Henry Batt, the father, is the chap b c1875 in Bristol area who is brought up in Barry and dies in 1933. He has a wife Florence May, nee Wilson, in 1901, which may be the reason no marriage can be found
He appears in the papers a bit for use of obscene language, fighting and betting. The marriage doesn't appear to have lasted long - if they relocated to Bargoed (occupation matches 1901 and I think Florence is with her father there in 1911)
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4164230/4164232/31/
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4164635/4164639/90/
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I guess John Henry Batt, the father, is the chap b c1875 in Bristol area who is brought up in Barry and dies in 1933. He has a wife Florence May, nee Wilson, in 1901, which may be the reason no marriage can be found
He appears in the papers a bit for use of obscene language, fighting and betting. The marriage doesn't appear to have lasted long - if they relocated to Bargoed (occupation matches 1901 and I think Florence is with her father there in 1911)
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4164230/4164232/31/
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4164635/4164639/90/
Thanks for the links. He does not sound very nice! The birth certificate of Martha Maria and John Henry's first child was registered as though they were man and wife, but the next two children were registered under her name. Then both of the latter seem to have had the certificates amended as there are "late entries for them. I am awaiting the certificates. Martha Maria is listed as spinster on her 1937 marriage to James Williams so it is almost certain that she and John Henry were never married. I will update when the certificates arrive.
Ricky