RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Barbara348 on Friday 23 February 18 12:56 GMT (UK)
-
Hi, Death Certificate for my 2 x Gt Grandfather in law shows his address on death in 1890 as 4 Angels Row, All Saints, Worcester.
Just wondered if someone could tell me if this street still exists please?
Thanks for any info about it.
Barbara.
-
Have you tried Google :-\
https://www.streetlist.co.uk/wr/wr1/wr1-3/angel-row
-
Hi Rosie99, thanks for the post.
Yes, I had googled that site but although it says that " Angels Row is a street in Worcester", I'm not sure of the date of that entry and I thought that maybe a current resident of that area might be able to tell me if there are still old dwellings in Angel Row. I'm going to try Google maps as well.
I'm just trying to get in idea of what it was like there in the 1890's - to add a little pen picture to my relatives' life at that time.
Thanks for your interest. :)
Barbara.
-
Hi Rosie 99,
Just looked on Google street view, found All Saints Row (I think) and the area looks like newish build modern blocks of flats.
I think I may have to try ang google 'old Photos of All Saints Row and see if I can dig anything out that way.
Barbara.
-
You can see Angel Row on the old map at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/384809/255054/13/100390
Modern Map https://binged.it/2BMfSR7
Aerial View https://binged.it/2BJItXr
Stan
-
Hi Stan
I was born in Worcester & visit it several times a year - Angel Row was off Angel Place but I don't know if it still exists even though I know that Angel Place does & bear in mind that the Crowngate (a large shopping centre) was built just off Angel Place so Angel Row may have been swallowed up in this development but Im by no means certain of that & will have to consult my detailed maps of Worcester to make sure
All the very best
Phil
ps I wont have access to a computer again till next Saturday so don't think Ive forgotten about you
-
Angel Row may have been swallowed up in this development but Im by no means certain of that & will have to consult my detailed maps of Worcester to make sure
Just look at the map links I gave
Stan
-
might be able to tell me if there are still old dwellings in Angel Row.
The area has been redeveloped, this birds eye view shows what may be original buildings on the north side of Angel Row https://binged.it/2op2R8R
See also http://www.cfow.org.uk/picture.php?/4510
Stan
-
Hi there Stan,
Thanks very much for the info and Map links which I have looked at - the aerial view in particular quite facinating really but because I don't know Worcester at all I couldn't quite pinpoint Angel's Row area.
I can see how much of the area has been redeveloped over the years though, so it was a faint hope that an old place like Angels Row would have been left untouched by time.
I'm am going to see if there are old postcards online for Worcester which may have a glimpse of old Angels Row on them, also I thought I might be able to contact Worcester library for a lead as well.
Thanks for your help & interest Stan.
Cheers.
Barbara.
-
Hi There
I cant understand this as I sent you a posting saying exactly where Angel Row is (as it still exists) & my posting has not shown up on these pages - I will repeat from memory what I can - Angel Row runs down the side of a large shopping centre in Worcester & all that is there is the Worcester bus station so I would say that all the dwellings have gone & if not they are very well disguised as when Im on holiday in the City of my birth I catch a bus in Angel Row every week.
All the very best
Phil
-
Your reply is at #5 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=788488.msg6440784#msg6440784
Stan
-
Hi Stan
The reply I was referring to was one I made after the posting you directed me to but made on the same day that one was so god knows where it vanished to & I thought I was helping as I do know Worcester rather well
All the best
Phil
-
Hi Barbera
Re the Ariel map Stan sent you a link to - you can clearly see Angel Row on it but the car park it looks as though it leads to is the very top story of the Crowngate Shopping Centre & if you walk on the street level down Angel Row you are in Worcester Bus Station & there are no private dwellings there.
All the very best
Phil
born in Worcester City 1944
-
This is a photograph at ground level looking towards Angel Street https://goo.gl/maps/5czcqb2imC32
Stan
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZDWy3INpw&t=11s
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZDWy3INpw&t=11s
You may like this.
Mike
-
Hi Barbera
Im about to eat humble pie.
The other night I looked at a very detailed map I have for Worcester City & to my amazement see that the part of Worcester where I catch busses & I was sure was Angel Row is not, but Angel Row is a walkway that runs virtually parallel to the where Angel Row is marked on Google Maps that you were referred to earlier by Stan if I remember right, so the map he told you about is wrong. I would imagine you could see part of Angel Row if you go to Google streetview where you can walk the streets - if you ask for Angel Street & walk down it towards the bus station you are going in the right direction - now back track to the right hand corner of Angel Street & Angel Place you should then be able to look over the road & see the entrance to Angel Row but I doubt you will be able to walk up there as I don't think cars are allowed unless you have business up there - so its pedestrians or push bikes - Ive walked up here many times to get to the HIVE & I remember that there is at least on house up there but have not paid much attention to it but it looks fairly modern at a quick glance. I will have a better look when Im in Worcester next month
All the very best
Phil
-
Hi Barbera
Im about to eat humble pie.
The other night I looked at a very detailed map I have for Worcester City & to my amazement see that the part of Worcester where I catch busses & I was sure was Angel Row is not, but Angel Row is a walkway that runs virtually parallel to the where Angel Row is marked on Google Maps that you were referred to earlier by Stan if I remember right, so the map he told you about is wrong.
All the very best
Phil
Do you mean the 1886 map I linked to https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/384809/255054/13/100390 if so it clearly shows Angel Row. If you keep zooming out you get the modern map.
Stan
-
Hi Stan, Phil, Mike and Rosie99, for the help you've given me on this post.
I've now had a good look around Worcester, thanks to the links for google maps etc from you all and the information you gave.
I have never been to Worcester so I also really enjoyed your video Mike, I almost feel that I've had a day out there now. :)
Thanks again all, for your time and interest.
Barbara.
-
Hi Jim, have now got the reverse side of the 'Wee Emily' photo resized and I'm attaching it so that you can see the message on the reverse but unfortunately there no stamp or stamp box on it.
Cheers
Barbara.
-
Hi Barbara
I should be going to the county of my birth in about a weeks time for an extended stay with relatives about 10 miles outside Worcester City (where I was born) & when there I like to go to Worcester once a week so I can visit the HIVE & do a bit of research into my family history.
The first time I go to the Hive later this month I shall make a point of walking up what I told you in my last posting is Angel Row just to make certain & finally prove Google maps wrong as I put more faith in the Alan Godfrey maps of 1901.
All the very best
Phil
ps I will let you know of my findings as soon as I can & hope to have a wee bit more info for you when I do
-
The Alan Godfrey map is just the Ordnance Survey map which you can see at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/384809/255054/12/100570
Stan
-
Hello Phil,
Thanks for your news.
My own Grandmother's family came from/lived in Pershore so it does seem a coincidence to me that my husband's Gt Grandad was also living in Worcester when he died in 1890 in Angels Row, All Saints. Was that area a workhouse I wonder or maybe just a lodging house.
Anyway, have a lovely visit/stay in your old hometown Phil and let us know if you find out anything of interest re Angels Row etc.
Cheers
Barbara.
-
Hi Barbara
don't treat this as gospel but if memory serves me correct I think the work house was in the area of Tallow Hill which is quite a long way from Angel Row. If you want to check on workhouses there is a fantastic site all about them http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/index.html
All the very best
Phil
-
Hi Again Barbara
I just clicked on the link I gave you & find the address I have is out of date & not recognised so if you just type workhouses into google & choose the one with the name Peter Higinbotham as its compiler you will get to the site Ive recommended & its a mine of information on the subject
All the very best
Phil
-
Here is the workhouse in 1888 https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/385727/255019/12/100380 and 1928 https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/385727/255019/12/101160
and this is the site as it was when Gmaps last photographed it.
https://goo.gl/maps/JvDEpUuKQnA2 and StreetView https://goo.gl/maps/75T2WrtbCqq seems to show some of those later buildings.
-
Hi Barbara
I did walk up the walkway that Im certain is the old Angel Row but have found contradictin info on where it was/still is.
Taken from the book - Historic Worcester Streets
An old alleyway from Angel Place to Blackfriars Street, formerly Smock Allet or Smoke Alley, the name was changed in the 19th century, according to Noake, who in 1877, wrote disparagingly of it having 'of late been dignified' with this name. The new name was first found in a street directory of 1840. It still exists off Angel Place in much the same spot, but due to d3evelopment it now runs beside the Crowngate bus station entrance & servbes only as a back route into the Crowngate Shopping Centre, though its use has increased since the opening of the HIVE to which it is linked by a pedestrian bridge over the Butts.
The above extract from Historic Worcester Streets is not agreed with by myself or the archaeology dept at the HIVE who have the first edition OS street map showing Angel Row as the walkway I said it was in one of my earlier postings & the map shows about 10 cottages in this row in the 1800s so I leave it up to you to believe which version you choose to. As I said earlier in this posting I did walk up that walkway on 17APR this year on my way to the HIVE & you can clearly see where that row of cottages used to be as I believe thet the fabric of the old buildings still exixts in the ones that are there now so Im sticking to my theory of where Angel Row is as personally I think that its far more believable even though the book I took an extract from says different & even the city council have give the road that run but s into the bus station the name Angel Row & it even has a postcode, so all I can think is that over the years through usage of the name in (what I regard as) the wrong place has meant that it could now be in 2 places but neither has a name plate to show what it should be called - well if they have I couldn't find them.
I was going to get all the residents from as many street directories as I could but unfortunately in the very limited amount of street directories for Worcester City that are held by the HIVE there is no entry for Angel Row & all I can assume is that the residents were unable to afford to have their names put in street directories.
I hope that this helps you a bit & wish that I could have found a lot more for you
All the very best
Phil
born in Astwood Rd Worcester in 1944 74 years ago to the day
-
Hi Phil, HAPPY BIRTHDAY :)
Thanks very much for the info, much appreciated.
Hope you're enjoying your visit to your old home town.
I like to visit mine now & again but I always come back with mixed feelings - some happy, some sad but that's how it is.
All the best to you Phil and enjoy your birthday.
Cheers
Barbara.
-
Hi Barbara
Im glad I could send you a bit of info & since sending it found another old map (as part of a display) at the HIVE & it clearly shows Angel Row in the place I thought it should be which contradicts Google maps & Worcester City council who even gave what Google maps show as Angel Row a post code so its getting a bit of a problem for you knowing who to believe
All the very best
Phil
-
Hi Barbara
While waiting for the bus at Worcester on Tuesday after Id left the HIVe I spent some time looking at what I regard as Angel Row & there are a lot of old buildings at the bottom of it(the Angel Place end)that I think must have been for some sort of manufacturing a long time ago as one of them has a very tall square chimney (the sort Fred Dibner use to rave about I hope you know who Im talking about but if not google his name & that will find him), Those buildings are now a nightclub but Im a bit past using them at my age :).
All the very best
Phil
-
Hi
I have found this site which gives an even better method of comparing old maps to the modern layout an this particular map actually shows Angel Row, off the W end of Angel St.
Look for the Blue Dot slider in the LH menu for transferring to the modern Gmaps picture.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19&lat=52.1935&lon=-2.2237&layers=168&b=1
Thanks are due to Yegvard on the Warndon thread for telling us about this resource.
-
Hi There
Out of curiosity I tried to access your map but the library computer I was using wont let me access the site as its security certificate is not recognised by Somerset libraries mores the pity
All the very best
Phil
-
This gives a better map of Angel Row on the old map at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/384809/255054/13/100390
Although this gives a side to side with the modern view. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=19&lat=52.1936&lon=-2.2237&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Stan
-
Hi Stan
The Old Maps is perfect & gives Angel Row exactly where it should be & also proves that my postings saying Google maps & even Worcester Council are wrong as google maps give a street that was made & runs parallel with Angel Row & the council in their wisdom even gave it a postcode & call it Angel row but Ive never seen a name plate on the new street.
All the very best
Phil
Born Worcester City 1944
-
Hi,
This is a good site for old photos of Worcester. I think this is one of Angel Row?
https://www.cfow.org.uk/index.php?/category/34#&ui-state=dialog
And this is a redevelopment many years later.
https://www.cfow.org.uk/index.php?/category/50
Best wishes
Marie
-
Hi There
Can I point out as someone born in Worcester the Angel Street Angel Place & Angel Row are 3 different places & that I have answered this query several times with research backed up by the archive dept of the HIVE where most historic documents about Worcester are held.
All the best
Phil
-
Hi Phil,
Can I just point out that I was not disputing where it was or trying to challenge your research. I was just trying to share photos of the area to a non Worcester resident.
Unfortunately, I’ve realised when you copy the link from individual photos, it copies a link to the whole album, which is not what I intended to share. The photo I was just trying to share was the 9th one. Easy mistake to make and I have now managed to post the photo below.
I was also born in Worcester and I still live there. In fact I walked down the now Angel Row yesterday. So I am fully aware Angel Row, Angel Street and Angel Place are three different locations.
Also the Hive and the archives they hold, I’m there quite a lot. Also HER are great and very helpful!!
Have a good day
-
Hi riebobaby
Sorry if my posting sounded like it was coming from a know it all but I didn't see the latest picture that you put on just a block of old Worcester pics & it was very good of you to give a non resident an insight into old Worcester. I have not lived in Worcester for a long time after being born in Astwood Rd in 1944 but do spend nearly 20 weeks of each year in the county with cousins & visit Worcester every week I'm there so I can do some research at the Hive.
One of my arguments with the council is that they have named the road that runs into the bus station at the side of the Crowngate centre Angel Row & even given it a postcode but according to old maps Angel Row is the lane you walk up from Angel Place if you want to get to the Hive & as a current resident I think that you will know exactly where I mean.
If you want to look at some good old pictures of Worcester they have a good collection on display at the Tudor House Museum & these pictures are also on line but I don't know if the complete collection is on line yet.
All the very best
Phil
ps once again please accept my apologies for sounding off a bit