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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: gracol on Monday 26 February 18 15:40 GMT (UK)
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In 1837 he married Eliza Forster in West Hanningfield.1851 Census for Bishops Stortford he is described as a "labourer on tramp" with wife Eliza born Thaxted Essex,both lodging with others "on tramp".
Eliza Moore died 1858 St Albans district.
1871 Census living in Dell Lane (next to "The Bull"?) Bishops Stortford,a marine store dealer,with wife Martha,born Brentwood Essex.
I cannot find him on the 1861 census,any record of his marriage to Martha,any later censuses,or any record of their deaths.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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1851 Census for Bishops Stortford he is described as a "labourer on tramp" with wife Eliza born Thaxted Essex,both lodging with others "on tramp".
Eliza Moore died 1858 St Albans district.
1851 shows her as Elizabeth and George's birthplace is shown as Westinfield, Essex, England
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Thanks for the reply CaroleW.
I cannot find any record of a Westinfield in Essex.
I thought the enumerator probably shortened or misheard "West Hanningfield",having never heard of it.
Don't know if that's a reasonable assumption!
Colin
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I think there is a Westin Field but it’s in Berkshire
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1851 Census does give county as Essex,as you say.
I feel it must be the same George Moore in both the 1851 and 1871 censuses,have noticed a few weird spellings of "West Hanningfield" in records other than Essex.
Disappointing cannot fill the gap or find subsequent records,can't win them all I suppose.
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In 1881 it looks like him as a 72 year old widower lodging at the Bell Inn Bridge street BS, back to being a labourer again.
In 1851 he's living three doors away from some of OH's rellies, I realised it when FindMyPast said I'd already bought the image!
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Thanks very much LizzieL for the reply.
Now know he was probably in Bishops Stortford from 1851 until his death there in 1887,although still puzzled why I can't him in the 1861 census.
Still cannot find his marriage to a Martha which must have been between 1859 and 1870,or her death which must have between 1871 and 1881.
LizzieL--OH's rellies--??
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In 1837 he married Eliza Forster in West Hanningfield.
Have you got a copy of the marriage certificate? I can't find a reference on FreeBMD, was it before 1st July 1837?
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In 1837 he married Eliza Forster in West Hanningfield.
Have you got a copy of the marriage certificate? I can't find a reference on FreeBMD, was it before 1st July 1837?
It is showing on familysearch in December 1837, I wonder if it is banns :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJD4-497Z
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yes 19th nov 1837 was 3rd reading of Banns, image available if you have sub to SEAX, but I can't find a marriage for them in west Hanningfield. If both were otp, only one set of Banns in WH and the marriage should have been there too.
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George Moore was baptised at W H on 14 Jan 1817 s/o of George Moore (labourer) and his wife Sarah late S Collings (spinster) abode WH.
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The will of George Moore of WH husbandman 1842, mentions sons George, William and Joseph and wife Sarah Maria. So some leads to the rest of the family.
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Can't find baptism for Eliza / Elizabeth Forster at Thaxted, but several Elizabeths in the right time period.
For Martha in Brentwood, there are Martha Porter d/o William and Martha born 22 May 1811, bapt 30 Jun 1811 and Martha Ann Perry d/o John William and Martha Ann born 29 Oct 1812, bapt 29 Nov 1812. (searched 1809 - 1814).
I am doubtful as to whether Eliza Forster and Elizabeth Moore (1851 census) are the same person. It would be good to find George in 1841. His father George snr wrote his will on 2 Sept 1841 and died in 1842, so he his wife and all three children should be alive then. He refers to the three boys as his three children, so I doubt there are any daughters. George jnr is mentioned first when he lists the three names so I suspect he is the oldest.
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Just found them,, George Moore 45 ag lab, Sarah 45 and George 24 ag lab, living Moon ? Lane, WH. No sign of a wife with George jnr. I think the marriage did not take place. Also no sign of the brothers Joseph and William, likely to be old enough to have left home.
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Very many thanks LizzieL for all your interesting replies,I'm getting to grips with them.
I do not have a marriage cert for George and Eliza,I assumed that both Ancestry and FamilySearch recording a marriage, that the marriage actually took place,that is so interesting that,that may not be the case.Could you please clarify "if otp only one set of Banns"?.The marriage did not take place then.
My tree is on Ancestry-Green Family Tree-have investigated the Moores,some marrying Greens.George Moores will of 1842,of which I have a copy,as you say mentions his brothers William and Joseph ,they both died in Chelmsford Workhouse.
I did notice the 1841 census for West Hanningfield which shows George Moore,but not Eliza.The 1841 census for Thaxted shows an Eliza Moore after a Henry Moore,I think her age must be a mistake looking at the childrens ages!,unless she was a vistor.
All in all for George Moore the records seem correct for his relocation to Bishops Stortford,the mystery of his two marriages remaining.
Thanks again LizzyL.
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The banns record says George and\Eliza were poth of the parish of West Hanningfield, so there would not be any Banns read in any other parish and they should be married in WH. anns have an expiry date (3 months I think). There is no marriage for George and Eliza in WH after the Banns. I don'y believe the marriage happened.
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I do not have a marriage cert for George and Eliza,I assumed that both Ancestry and FamilySearch recording a marriage, that the marriage actually took place,that is so interesting that,that may not be the case.
Ancestry have a collection called 'England Select' which have a 'FHL Film Number' showing on the transcript. FindMyPast's equivalent is 'England Marriages' (also baptisms & burials) which at the bottom of the transcripts in very light writing states 'Index (c) IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl'
These are the collections that you are possibly viewing and assuming are correct as they are on both sites, they are both extracted from familysearch. I do not know whether these records include the records submitted by members as part of their trees or are just records that have been extracted from parish registers. As is true with any transcript it is always subject to error.
I have examples of transcribed 'extracted' familysearch records that have been allocated to another parish on the same film. If you have a query it is always worth checking the film number with the FHL library catalogue to see which parishes are covered on that film number and in the case of marriages whether it also includes banns. https://www.familysearch.org/catalog/search
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I have found many cases when Ancestry etc give a Banns date (usually 3rd reading) as a Marriage date. And on several occasions Banns without a later marriage found. I even have one where a couple had their Banns read, did not marry immediately, then had them read again sometime later as the first set had expired.
As I said in reply #9 the date given by Ancestry is Banns date, I have the image from the Banns book.
If you have a sub to SEAX, the Banns book is at the end of the set of marriage records which end at 1837, even though date is after 1st July 1837. There are no Marriages at WH between 22 Nov 1837 (the couple whose banns were read just before George and Eliza) and 6 jan 1838. Since marriage records must be signed by the bride, groom and witnesses they cannot be recorded on scraps of paper and copied to register book later (and therefore run the risk of being omitted).
Other info: George senior appointed the vicar Thomas Brookesby as his executor, rather than his wife Sarah or George jnr who was 24 at the time he made his will. This sounds as if the vicar was a family friend or he didn't think Sarah or George jnr were up to the job. George snr's father Arthur Moore witnessed a lot of marriages in the early 1800's so may have been a parish official.
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Many thanks for your replies.
rosie99-I do use Ancestry and FamilySearch for records,will try and check FamilySearch sources as you suggest.
LizzieL-certainly not the first time then that Banns have incorrectly been recorded as Marriages.
Arthur Moore in his West Hanningfield burial record-"Arthur Moore a married man more than 40 years Church Clerk of this Parish".As you suggest the vicar probably a friend.
Will again search for George's marriage to Eliza,Elizabeth,and to Martha!