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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: nikearle on Monday 26 February 18 22:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
This is my first post so I hope I am doing things right. :) I am very excited because I have just found confirmation from Papers Past NZ Herald 15 Nov 1899 that a relative, Letitia Whittingham, was committed to St Mary's Industrial School. I think she would have been about 4 or 5.
Mother was Mary Whittingham (nee Commons). Father was John Whittingham.
Mary was John's first wife and she died in 1912. However, prior to this it appears John had several children with Isabella Chapman, who he made an honest woman of in 1913, after Mary died.
I always wondered if the marriage with Mary was troubled and if they informally separated but I'm not sure how to go about confirming this.
The court order against Mary was my first clue.
Can anyone look up Letitia's details for me?
Regards, Nicola
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What details are you seeking for Letitia? Admission into St Mary's Auckland? Birth records?
As for Mary Jane Whittingham - there is a Coroners files for her https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=23707348
Her state of marriage or divorce MIGHT be noted on the funeral director's register; and/or her death certificate ???
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For other RCers
Marriage of Mary and John
1890/2814 Mary Jane Commons John Whittingham
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Birth of children to Mary
1892/5123 Whittingham Henry George John Edward Mary Jane Agnes John
1894/4047 Whittingham Frank Moses Owen William Mary Jane Agnus John
1895/8761 Whittingham Letitia Florence Mary Jane John
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A marriage of an Isabella to a John Whittingham
1913/2593 Isabella Chapman John Whittingham
Children of Isabella and John Whittingham
1914/979 Whittingham William Kendall Isabella John
1916/6158 Whittingham Harold Gordon Isabella John
1917/25012 Whittingham Frederick Francis Isabella John
1947/81999 Whittingham Charles Ernest Isabella John
1947/82017 Whittingham Florence Lillian Isabella John
1947/82018 Whittingham Frances Eileen Isabella John
1947/82019 Whittingham Janet Annie Isabel Isabella John
1947/82020 Whittingham Lottie Evelyn Isabella John
1947/82021 Whittingham John William Isabella Johnt
1947/82022 Whittingham Joyce Isabella John
(Note the bulk registration of children in 1947, which seems to be the year that Isabella died:
1947/20578 Whittingham Isabella 71Y )
nikearle, where is the information from regarding Isabella and John's prior relationship?
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nikearle
Have you seen this family tree: https://www.geni.com/people/Letitia/6000000068971783851
It also attributes another daughter to Mary and John Whittingham:
1898/1031 Whittingham Beatrice Mary Victoria Ann John
As does this tree: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Whittingham-200
Beatrice died 2 months later:
1898/242 Whittingham Mary Beatrice Victoria 2M
Twiggy
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Hi TwiggyTree, all the birth certificates of the bulk late registered children have their birthdates as being 1902-1911ish which is how i know they were born while John was still married to Mary Jane Commons. There is nothing to suggest he wasn't their true father.
The Letitia query was more to try to prove Mary Commons was of ill-repute and justify why/how he would have children to the woman he later married but out of wedlock. I have her birth records, id love to get admission details. It is such a huge family to sort through.
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Hello Nicola ... welcome to RootsChat. :)
Unfortunately, we here do not have immediate or online access to Industrial school records (they are held by Archives New Zealand at their various offices.)
Have you looked at the Research Guide issued by Archives New Zealand ? If not, then it's a good idea to do this.
http://archives.govt.nz/research/guides/education
[You'll need to scroll down a bit to reach the "Industrial School" notes. ]
~ Lu
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... just curious ;D ... did Letitia marry ?
I couldn't see marriage for her under the WHITTINGHAM surname ??
~ Lu
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Thanks Lucy2. Yes I've lodged a research request with the Archives. Just hoping maybe someone has access somehow some other way.
Regards
Nicola :)
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And I can't find any marriages, death notices either... for Letitia. Complete dead end.
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Perhaps this is her?
Death from BDMH
1899/2000 Whithingham Letitia Florence 3Y
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Just throwing this in, in case it helps....I was researching a person who was admitted to St Mary's Orphanage (Stoke, NELSON), and their records were at the Alexander Turnball Library NOT Archives NZ. As this register included living people I had to have them access it, and they made a copy of the relevant entry to show me.
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And I can't find any marriages, death notices either... for Letitia. Complete dead end.
Yes ... like Twiggy Tree ... I have also just come across the death of Letitia. :(
Hadn't bothered checking the death index earlier because you had seemed to indicate that Letitia was a relative and that somehow suggested you had details of her beyond 1899. ???
~ Lu
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For your records ... the burials of Mary Jane and three of her children.
Burials at Waikumete Cemetery, Auckland :
Roman Catholic - Row 1 - Plot 29
WHITTINGHAM
- Frank - 5 months - buried : 30/03/1894
- Mary - 2 months - buried : 14/03/1898
- Letitia Florence - 3 and a half years - buried : 23/06/1899
- Mary Jane - adult - buried : 30/07/1912
~ Lu
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How tragic.
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Indeed Twiggy ... most tragic. :(
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Nicola ... this also >
NZ Death
1918 / 8586 - WHITTINGHAM - Henry George John Edward - 26 years
:(
By my reckoning, this now accounts for all of the children born to the union of Mary COMMONS and John WHITTINGHAM . ???
~ Lu
PS: Still searching for the resting place of young Henry - will post here when found.
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Nicola ...
This is additional to earlier information given for burial of Letitia.
This is how the Waikumete Cemetery Index records her death ... as WITTINGHAM.
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/RecordDetails.aspx?recordId=0x247F3A5D7463BDB81A2B5AF773D30509
Funeral director's name (LITTLE) given - maybe an Auckland-based chatter can advise if there might be additional information available ?
~ Lu
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The records of C Little & Sons are held at Auckland Public Library:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lnk/
When I was enquiring for an Auckland Public Library look-up here, it was suggested to use the "Ask a librarian" facility.
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Letitia's birth
1895/8761 Whittingham Letitia Florence to Mary Jane and John exact date was 15/9/1895
Death
1899/2000 Whithingham Letitia Florence 3Y exact date was 22/6/1899
I can't see Letitia's burial record on the Auckland cemeteries database but the ones I can see
Mary Jane Whittingham
Date of death 28 July 1912
Age at death 49
Gender Female
Region West
Cemetery name Waikumete Cemetery
Plot location Roman Catholic Division B Row 1, Plot 29
Interment type Burial
Date of burial 30 July 1912
Funeral director C Little & Sons Limited
Frank and Mary B V Whittingham also
The records for C Little and Sons are held at the research room at the Auckland central library,these are a valuable source of information as they are the sheet the FD filled out when meeting with families and has all the information that went on the death registration
Cheers Janette
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FindMyPast has a WW1 entry for the son
Henry George John Edward Whittingham
59 Rose Rd Grey Lynn,Auckland
Driver
Cheers Janette
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1899/2000 Whithingham Letitia Florence 3Y exact date was 22/6/1899
I can't see Letitia's burial record on the Auckland cemeteries database ...
Cheers Janette
Letitia's burial record along with those of two siblings (Frank and Mary) and her mother, Mary Jane, given in my earlier post.
... Auckland Cemetery database ... has Letitia as "Child WITTINGHAM" .. see also my additional earlier post for this.
~ Lu
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Letitia's burial record along with those of two siblings (Frank and Mary) and her mother, Mary Jane, given in my earlier post.
... Auckland Cemetery database ... has Letitia as "Child WITTINGHAM" .. see also my additional earlier post for this.
~ Lu
Thanks Lu,
Cheers Janette
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There is a newspaper record of Mary being charged with drunkeness
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18991212.2.9?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR
Poor woman,
Cheers Janette
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Maybe alcohol was her problem as she was sent to prison for 30 days a month later
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19000125.2.63?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR
edited
Another charge
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19020407.2.64?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR
Cheers Janette
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FindMyPast has a WW1 entry for the son
Henry George John Edward Whittingham
59 Rose Rd Grey Lynn,Auckland
Driver
Cheers Janette
Just noting that the WW1 Reserve Roll (Army) listing for Henry, above ^, shows him at the same address > 59 Rose Road, Grey Lynn > as his father > John WHITTINGHAM, master mariner > was listed at for the 1919 election.
~ Lu
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another charge for poor Mary only months before her death
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19120508.2.19?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&page=4&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR
edited
Her death in the newspaper
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19120729.2.49?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&page=4&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR
The inquest into her death
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19120729.2.18?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&page=4&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR
Cheers Janette
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Thanks so much you guys for all your help. I did not realise she had died.
Letitia isn't a direct blood relative, my line is through the 2nd marriage to Isabella Chapman. I was just trying to tidy up and understand the timeline.
You guys are awesome!!
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An online tree has this information which may or may not be accurate but worth tucking away for future reference
John Whittingham and Isabella Whittingham (born Chapman).
John was born on June 27 1863, in Auckland, New Zealand.
Isabella was born on March 17 1877, in Norfolk Island.
Cheers Janette
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Some Whittingham births & death notices........
Birth: [1898]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18980118.2.52?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=john+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG
Birth: [1893]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18931021.2.39?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=john+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG
Birth: [1892]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18920421.2.53?end_date=31-12-1949&page=2&phrase=2&query=john+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG
Death: [1898]
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18980314.2.59?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=mary+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839
Minniehaha.
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Death [1944] of the fourth son of John & Isabella Whittingham
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19440329.2.2?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=isabella+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG
Nine siblings are named.......
Added:Cenotaph record with photograph:
http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/record/C21818?n=william%20kendall%20whittingham&ordinal=0&from=%2Fwar-memorial%2Fonline-cenotaph%2Fsearch
Also record for Frederick Francis Whittingham:
http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/record/116991?n=whittingham&ordinal=2&from=%2Fwar-memorial%2Fonline-cenotaph%2Fsearch
Minniehaha.
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Thanks all.
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Further to reply #27.....
This item about the inquest into Mary's death may be a little easier to read than that to be found in the Auckland Star:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19120730.2.42?end_date=31-08-1912&page=4&phrase=0&query=coughing&start_date=01-07-1912&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG
Minniehaha.