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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: nikearle on Monday 26 February 18 22:05 GMT (UK)

Title: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: nikearle on Monday 26 February 18 22:05 GMT (UK)
Hi,

This is my first post so I hope I am doing things right. :) I am very excited because I have just found confirmation from Papers Past NZ Herald 15 Nov 1899 that a relative, Letitia Whittingham, was committed to St Mary's Industrial School. I think she would have been about 4 or 5.
Mother was Mary Whittingham (nee Commons). Father was John Whittingham.
Mary was John's first wife and she died in 1912. However, prior to this it appears John had several children with Isabella Chapman, who he made an honest woman of in 1913, after Mary died.
I always wondered if the marriage with Mary was troubled and if they informally separated but I'm not sure how to go about confirming this.
The court order against Mary was my first clue.
Can anyone look up Letitia's details for me?
Regards, Nicola
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Monday 26 February 18 22:42 GMT (UK)
What details are you seeking for Letitia?  Admission into St Mary's Auckland?  Birth records?


As for Mary Jane Whittingham - there is a Coroners files for her https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=23707348

Her state of marriage or divorce MIGHT be noted on the funeral director's register; and/or her death certificate  ???
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Monday 26 February 18 22:47 GMT (UK)
For other RCers

Marriage of Mary and John
1890/2814   Mary Jane   Commons   John   Whittingham
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Monday 26 February 18 22:56 GMT (UK)
Birth of children to Mary

1892/5123   Whittingham   Henry George John Edward   Mary Jane Agnes   John
1894/4047   Whittingham   Frank Moses Owen William   Mary Jane Agnus   John
1895/8761   Whittingham   Letitia Florence   Mary Jane   John
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Monday 26 February 18 23:06 GMT (UK)
A marriage of an Isabella to a John Whittingham

1913/2593   Isabella   Chapman   John   Whittingham


Children of Isabella and John Whittingham

1914/979           Whittingham   William Kendall   Isabella   John
1916/6158   Whittingham   Harold Gordon   Isabella   John
1917/25012   Whittingham   Frederick Francis   Isabella   John
1947/81999   Whittingham   Charles Ernest   Isabella   John
1947/82017   Whittingham   Florence Lillian   Isabella   John
1947/82018   Whittingham   Frances Eileen   Isabella   John
1947/82019   Whittingham   Janet Annie Isabel   Isabella   John
1947/82020   Whittingham   Lottie Evelyn           Isabella   John
1947/82021   Whittingham   John William           Isabella   Johnt
1947/82022   Whittingham   Joyce                   Isabella   John

(Note the bulk registration of children in 1947, which seems to be the year that Isabella died:
1947/20578   Whittingham   Isabella   71Y )

nikearle, where is the information from regarding Isabella and John's prior relationship?
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Monday 26 February 18 23:16 GMT (UK)
nikearle

Have you seen this family tree: https://www.geni.com/people/Letitia/6000000068971783851

It also attributes another daughter to Mary and John Whittingham:
1898/1031   Whittingham   Beatrice Mary Victoria   Ann   John

As does this tree: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Whittingham-200

Beatrice died 2 months later:
1898/242   Whittingham   Mary Beatrice Victoria   2M

Twiggy
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: nikearle on Monday 26 February 18 23:30 GMT (UK)
 Hi TwiggyTree, all the birth certificates of the bulk late registered children have their birthdates as being 1902-1911ish which is how i know they were born while John was still married to Mary Jane Commons. There is nothing to suggest he wasn't their true father.
The Letitia query was more to try to prove Mary Commons was of ill-repute and justify why/how he would have children to the woman he later married but out of wedlock. I have her birth records, id love to get admission details. It is such a huge family to sort through.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 00:07 GMT (UK)
Hello Nicola ... welcome to RootsChat.    :)

Unfortunately, we here do not have immediate or online access to Industrial school records (they are held by Archives New Zealand at their various offices.)

Have you looked at the Research Guide issued by Archives New Zealand ?   If not, then it's a good idea to do this.

http://archives.govt.nz/research/guides/education

[You'll need to scroll down a bit to reach the "Industrial School" notes. ]

   ~  Lu

Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 00:10 GMT (UK)
... just curious  ;D  ... did Letitia marry ?   

I couldn't see marriage for her under the WHITTINGHAM surname ??

   ~    Lu
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: nikearle on Tuesday 27 February 18 00:12 GMT (UK)
Thanks Lucy2. Yes I've lodged a research request with the Archives.  Just hoping maybe someone has access somehow some other way.
Regards
Nicola :)
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: nikearle on Tuesday 27 February 18 00:28 GMT (UK)
And I can't find any marriages, death notices either... for Letitia. Complete dead end.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Tuesday 27 February 18 00:37 GMT (UK)
Perhaps this is her?

Death from BDMH
1899/2000   Whithingham   Letitia Florence   3Y
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Tuesday 27 February 18 00:47 GMT (UK)
Just throwing this in, in case it helps....I was researching a person who was admitted to St Mary's Orphanage (Stoke, NELSON), and their records were at the Alexander Turnball Library NOT Archives NZ.  As this register included living people I had to have them access it, and they made a copy of the relevant entry to show me.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:01 GMT (UK)
And I can't find any marriages, death notices either... for Letitia. Complete dead end.

Yes ... like Twiggy Tree ... I have also just come across the death of Letitia.   :(

Hadn't bothered checking the death index earlier because you had seemed to indicate that Letitia was a relative and that somehow suggested you had details of her beyond 1899.    ???

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:10 GMT (UK)
For your records ... the burials of Mary Jane and three of her children.

Burials at Waikumete Cemetery, Auckland :

Roman Catholic - Row 1  - Plot 29

WHITTINGHAM

-  Frank - 5 months - buried :  30/03/1894
-  Mary - 2 months - buried :  14/03/1898
-  Letitia Florence - 3 and a half years - buried :   23/06/1899
-  Mary Jane  - adult - buried :  30/07/1912


   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:17 GMT (UK)
How tragic.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:19 GMT (UK)
Indeed Twiggy ... most tragic.   :(
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:23 GMT (UK)
Nicola ... this also >

NZ Death

1918 / 8586 - WHITTINGHAM - Henry George John Edward  - 26 years

 :(

By my reckoning, this now accounts for all of the children born to the union of Mary COMMONS and John WHITTINGHAM .    ???

   ~  Lu

PS:   Still searching for the resting place of young Henry - will post here when found.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:31 GMT (UK)
Nicola ...

This is additional to earlier information given for burial of Letitia.

This is how the Waikumete Cemetery Index records her death ... as WITTINGHAM.
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/RecordDetails.aspx?recordId=0x247F3A5D7463BDB81A2B5AF773D30509

Funeral director's  name (LITTLE) given - maybe an Auckland-based chatter can advise if there might be additional information available ?

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: TwiggyTree on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:38 GMT (UK)
The records of C Little & Sons are held at Auckland Public Library:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lnk/

When I was enquiring for an Auckland Public Library look-up here, it was suggested to use the "Ask a librarian" facility.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:40 GMT (UK)
Letitia's birth

1895/8761   Whittingham    Letitia Florence    to Mary Jane   and John exact date was 15/9/1895

Death

1899/2000   Whithingham    Letitia Florence    3Y exact date was 22/6/1899

I can't see Letitia's burial record on the Auckland cemeteries database but the ones I can see
Mary Jane Whittingham
 Date of death  28 July 1912
Age at death  49
Gender  Female
Region  West
Cemetery name  Waikumete Cemetery
Plot location  Roman Catholic Division B Row 1, Plot 29
Interment type  Burial
Date of burial  30 July 1912
Funeral director  C Little & Sons Limited

Frank and Mary B V Whittingham also

The records for C Little and Sons are held at the research room at the Auckland central library,these are a valuable source of information as they are the sheet the FD filled out when meeting with families and has all the information that went on the death registration

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:50 GMT (UK)
FindMyPast has a WW1 entry for the son

Henry George John Edward    Whittingham
59 Rose Rd Grey Lynn,Auckland   
Driver

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:58 GMT (UK)

1899/2000   Whithingham    Letitia Florence    3Y exact date was 22/6/1899

I can't see Letitia's burial record on the Auckland cemeteries database ...

Cheers Janette

Letitia's burial record along with those of two siblings (Frank and Mary) and her mother, Mary Jane, given in my earlier post.

... Auckland Cemetery database ... has Letitia as "Child WITTINGHAM" .. see also my additional earlier post for this.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 27 February 18 02:06 GMT (UK)


Letitia's burial record along with those of two siblings (Frank and Mary) and her mother, Mary Jane, given in my earlier post.

... Auckland Cemetery database ... has Letitia as "Child WITTINGHAM" .. see also my additional earlier post for this.

   ~  Lu

Thanks Lu,

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 27 February 18 02:08 GMT (UK)
There is a newspaper record of Mary being charged with drunkeness

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18991212.2.9?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR

Poor woman,

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 27 February 18 02:10 GMT (UK)
Maybe alcohol was her problem as she was sent to prison for 30 days a month later

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19000125.2.63?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR

edited

Another charge
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19020407.2.64?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 27 February 18 02:13 GMT (UK)
FindMyPast has a WW1 entry for the son

Henry George John Edward    Whittingham
59 Rose Rd Grey Lynn,Auckland   
Driver

Cheers Janette

Just noting that the WW1 Reserve Roll (Army) listing for Henry, above ^, shows him at the same address > 59 Rose Road, Grey Lynn > as his father > John WHITTINGHAM, master mariner > was listed at for the 1919 election.   

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 27 February 18 02:21 GMT (UK)
another charge for poor Mary only months before her death

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19120508.2.19?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&page=4&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR

edited

Her death  in the newspaper

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19120729.2.49?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&page=4&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR


The inquest into her death

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19120729.2.18?end_date=31-12-1915&items_per_page=100&page=4&phrase=2&query=whittingham&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1890&title=AS%2CNZH%2CNZTR

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: nikearle on Tuesday 27 February 18 02:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much you guys for all your help. I did not realise she had died.
Letitia isn't a direct blood relative, my line is through the 2nd marriage to Isabella Chapman. I was just trying to tidy up and understand the timeline.
You guys are awesome!!
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 27 February 18 02:35 GMT (UK)
An online tree has this information which may or may not be accurate but worth tucking away for future reference

John Whittingham and Isabella Whittingham (born Chapman).
John was born on June 27 1863, in Auckland, New Zealand.
Isabella was born on March 17 1877, in Norfolk Island.

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 27 February 18 03:55 GMT (UK)
Some Whittingham births & death notices........


Birth: [1898]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18980118.2.52?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=john+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG


Birth: [1893]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18931021.2.39?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=john+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG


Birth: [1892]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18920421.2.53?end_date=31-12-1949&page=2&phrase=2&query=john+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG


Death: [1898]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18980314.2.59?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=mary+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 27 February 18 04:03 GMT (UK)
Death [1944] of the fourth son of John & Isabella Whittingham

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19440329.2.2?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=2&query=isabella+whittingham&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG

Nine siblings are named.......

Added:Cenotaph record with photograph:

http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/record/C21818?n=william%20kendall%20whittingham&ordinal=0&from=%2Fwar-memorial%2Fonline-cenotaph%2Fsearch

Also record for Frederick Francis Whittingham:

http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/record/116991?n=whittingham&ordinal=2&from=%2Fwar-memorial%2Fonline-cenotaph%2Fsearch


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: nikearle on Tuesday 27 February 18 05:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks all.
Title: Re: Auckland Industrial School Info
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 27 February 18 06:03 GMT (UK)
Further to reply #27.....

This item about the inquest into Mary's death may be a little easier to read than that to be found in the Auckland Star:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19120730.2.42?end_date=31-08-1912&page=4&phrase=0&query=coughing&start_date=01-07-1912&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG


Minniehaha.