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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Laurenmay on Friday 02 March 18 11:14 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I have hit a brick wall with the death of this great aunt of mine.
She was born in London to Alfred James Saunders and his wife Eva Lillian 'nee Mortimer. And christened at St. Botolphs. She married a Robert George Harrison in 1931. For the life of me I cannot find when she died. My tree can be seen on Ancestry. Saunders & Wither 02 17.
I would be obliged if anyone can help.
Regards
Peter
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So to get a handle on locations - the 1931 marriage was in Edmonton (bridegroom indexed as George R Harrison).
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Harrison/Saunders births in Edmonton 1932, 1934, 1936 and (big gap) 1947, some or all of which may be theirs?
If so it looks as though they stayed in the area - have you traced the family in the 1939 Register on Findmypast?
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Hi
Sounds right.
Vol. 3a. Page 1824.
Peter
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Was their first child George Herbert Harrison born 9 Oct 1932, died 2002 Enfield?
If so he didn’t move far from his birthplace, suggesting the family remained locally settled.
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Hi
This is interesting, this son was obviously named after his dad. I have not been able to trace any children but this sounds about right. They did live in Enfield and Florence's husband did die in Enfield in 1985.
Peter
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When was Florence last known to be alive? Did she predecease her husband?
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I have found an electoral roll for 1936 and 37 with a George Robert Harrison and a Florence Maud Harrison at 26 Dunholme Road Edmonton, I wonder if that is them?
Benjamin and Harriet Saunders live next door at 28.
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I have found an electoral roll for 1936 and 37 with a George Robert Harrison and a Florence Maud Harrison at 26 Dunholme Road Edmonton, I wonder if that is them?
Benjamin and Harriet Saunders live next door at 28.
Ah that’s interesting. They seem to have moved away from that address in about 1938 - briefly, it seems, to 87 Stockton Rd Enfield, but they were not there at the beginning of the war.
Her birth was registered as Florence Mabel Saunders though (Dec qtr 1911 with mmn Mortimer), and she was baptised as Florence Mabel Saunders on 10 Dec 1911. I wonder how certain Peter is that this was the Florence who married Mr Harrison?
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Birthdate for George Robert Harrison who died Enfield Jun qtr 1985 is 18 Oct 1907.
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They've certainly gone into hiding in 1939,although I did wonder as mum had young children that she'd been evacuated to the country. But having no luck there either!
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Possible for Benjamin and Harriet
Benjamin Saunders married Harriet G Wicks in Edmonton district Q3 1920. But district name in italics so may be an error somewhere
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Possible for Benjamin and Harriet
Benjamin Saunders married Harriet G Wicks in Edmonton district Q3 1920. But district name in italics so may be an error somewhere
The Edmonton district name was in italics for the Harrison/Saunders marriage in 1931 too - perhaps there is an error with FreeBMD’s “expected range” data?
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Hi Peter,
On your tree you have Florence and George in 1946 living at 86 Wavertree Road, Wandsworth.
By doing a free address search on the 1939 it would appear that a George Harrison b. 1887 and Florence M Harrison b. 1890 and one other person are living at that address. These birth dates are rather out with the ones originally posted, therefore is the 1939 entry correct for your Harrison family or are your birth dates the correct people that you are researching?
JJ
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Oh dear it looks like Harriet Grace Saunders nee Wicks died in Edmonton in Sept 1/4 of 1938 aged just 37.
Fits with an 1899 birth of a Harriet Grace Wicks.
Was rather hoping that the 4 of them were near each other in 1939.
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Harriet Grace Saunders of 28 Dunholme rd died 4 sept 1938 (wife of Benjamin Saunders) admin to Edward Jesse Wicks and Edward Jesse Wicks the younger and Richard Saunders on 8 feb 1939. there is figure of £356 and then resworn 1206. If she was wife rather than widow of Benjamin why didn't he get admin. Or had he died in the time between her death and admin, so her father, brother and one of Benjamin's rellies had to get admin - hence two estate values??
Harriet is daughter of E J Wicks and Harriet Stotter b abt 1899 and listed as Grace on 1801 census.
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Benjamin died day after Harriet, admin 5 jan 1939 to same three gentlemen.
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found newspaper report of house being struck by plane on 5 sept 1938.
how terrible
the two Saunders children died on that day, Benjamin was initially on the list of injured, but died the following day
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Benjamin died day after Harriet, admin 5 jan 1939 to same three gentlemen.
Oh how sad. I am presuming that he was Florence's brother?
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Struck by a plane :o. I wonder whether this prompted the move of the Harrisons away from the street?
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Perhaps Benjamin was a half brother, uncle or other relative (or non-relative)? He was 43 at death in 1938, but Florence’s parents had married only in the year of her birth.
Alfred J Saunders and Eva L Mortimer, Jun qtr 1911 Pancras.
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Benjamin Saunders seems to have been born in Hackney, birth reg Mar qtr 1896 mmn Eager. Parents were Benjamin and Maud, and his siblings included a brother Richard birth reg Jun qtr 1899 Hackney (so presumably the Richard Saunders who was one of the administrators of the two estates).
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Perhaps Benjamin was a half brother, uncle or other relative (or non-relative)? He was 43 at death in 1938, but Florence’s parents had married only in the year of her birth.
Alfred J Saunders and Eva L Mortimer, Jun qtr 1911 Pancras.
Thanks AVM, hadn't really thought it out. ;D
11 people died in that aircrash including the Saunders 2 sons,luckily it seems as though the Harrison's were not at home when it happened though.
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Wikipedia on the air crash: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton_air_crash
Interesting links at the foot of the page to newsreels from the time.
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Hi Peter,
On your tree you have Florence and George in 1946 living at 86 Wavertree Road, Wandsworth.
By doing a free address search on the 1939 it would appear that a George Harrison b. 1887 and Florence M Harrison b. 1890 and one other person are living at that address. These birth dates are rather out with the ones originally posted, therefore is the 1939 entry correct for your Harrison family or are your birth dates the correct people that you are researching?
JJ
I feel that we have 2 separate couples here.But wish I could pinpoint George b 1907 and Florence b 1911 on the 1939 register.Maybe the shock of the aircrash made them move miles away.
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Hi Peter,
On your tree you have Florence and George in 1946 living at 86 Wavertree Road, Wandsworth.
By doing a free address search on the 1939 it would appear that a George Harrison b. 1887 and Florence M Harrison b. 1890 and one other person are living at that address. These birth dates are rather out with the ones originally posted, therefore is the 1939 entry correct for your Harrison family or are your birth dates the correct people that you are researching?
JJ
I feel that we have 2 separate couples here.But wish I could pinpoint George b 1907 and Florence b 1911 on the 1939 register.Maybe the shock of the aircrash made them move miles away.
I agree that they must be separate couples - very frustrating that they are elusive but surely they stayed local. They are still in Enfield (different address) in the 1939 electoral register, and again (yet another address) in 1946.
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Possibly the Harrisons had moved just before the air crash.
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I have found an electoral roll for 1936 and 37 with a George Robert Harrison and a Florence Maud Harrison at 26 Dunholme Road Edmonton, I wonder if that is them?
Benjamin and Harriet Saunders live next door at 28.
Ah that’s interesting. They seem to have moved away from that address in about 1938 - briefly, it seems, to 87 Stockton Rd Enfield, but they were not there at the beginning of the war.
The City of London birth was registered as Florence Mabel Saunders though (Dec qtr 1911 with mmn Mortimer), and she was baptised as Florence Mabel Saunders on 10 Dec 1911. I wonder how certain Peter is that this was the Florence who married Mr Harrison?
Further mulling on this, I see that the birth of a Florence Maud Saunders (mmn Gore) was registered in Edmonton Mar qtr 1908 - could this be George Robert Harrison’s wife instead?
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Further mulling on this, I see that the birth of a Florence Maud Saunders (mmn Gore) was registered in Edmonton Mar qtr 1908 - could this be George Robert Harrison’s wife instead?
That is beginning to be my feeling on this too. ;D
Hence why her name is Florence Maud on all Electoral rolls.
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Electoral rolls have them both at 5 Hawthorne Way Edmonton until at least 1958.
In that year E R (might still be alive) and George H join them there.
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Son E may still be living.
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Florence Mabel Saunders is still with her parents in 1934
45 Seven Sisters Road
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Florence Mabel still listed on the 1935 electoral register at 45 Seven Sisters
but not 1936 (Alfred James and Eva Lilian there)
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Florence M Saunders married Reginald J Cooper in Islington, 1936 qtr 2
No idea if it's the right lady.
Another one married Alfred C Harris in Islington in 1937
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Probate for Eva Lilian Saunders in 1960
To Reginald John Cooper
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Good stuff jonw65.
I wonder therefore if she died in Hillingdon, Jun qtr 1989, as Florence Mabel Cooper - birthdate 23.11.1911.
Added: yes I think this is her. She seems to have been with her paternal aunt Daisy Louise Saunders b 1890 in Herts just before the war.
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Could well have done!
There is a Florence M Cooper with that birth date in the free index to 1939 (in Berkhamstead U.D.)
Struggling to find her and Reginald John together anywhere!
She seems to have been with her paternal aunt Daisy Louise Saunders b 1890 in Herts just before the war.
That's excellent!
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Yes, Daisy Louise Saunders b 14 Nov 1890 was a sister of Alfred John Saunders b 1 Oct 1875, both baptised at Cheshunt as children of Frederick and Ellen.
Alfred John Saunders died in Waltham Cross in 1955, probate to his widow Eva Lilian.
Daisy Louise Saunders died in Berkhamsted district Jun qtr 1969.
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Hi Everyone.
I am sure that Florence's middle name is correct. I have Baptism notification and she wad baptised on 10th Dec. 1911. Her fathers occupation is also shown correctly as is her mother names. I am really just interested in any other children she may have had other than George Herbert, and when she died.Thank you all for helping out by the way. Peter.
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Peter - lots has been added to the thread since you were last online, and to summarise it looks pretty clear that your Florence did not marry George Robert Harrison (his bride was a Florence Maud Saunders b 1908) but instead married Reginald John Cooper in 1936.
Your Florence’s likely death as Florence Mabel Cooper has already been posted. She seems to have thought her birthdate was 23 November, though like you I have seen the baptism register in which it was recorded (rightly or wrongly) as 25 November.
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Well, no wonder I was struggling. Thank you once again for all of your help.
Regards & keep warm. Peter