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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: teilujnitram on Saturday 03 March 18 15:19 GMT (UK)
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Hi, my grandmother was a Lightbody. Her father was Archibald Haldane Lightbody and he was a railway clerk in Edinburgh who went out to South Africa at the end of the 19th century to work (presumably on the building of the railway from Durban). His father (Alexander(1845 - 1918) was an engine driver in Edinburgh, and his father (Archibald 1819-1895 was also a railway engine driver in Edinburgh born in Carluke) . Then I get a bit stumped - I've got back to about 1780 with a possible father for Archibald of Alexander also born in Carluke. Now I'm struggling with him as all the records I can find are a bit muddling and not conclusive. I think he must have been born around 1780 as he appears to have had a son called Alexander with Margaret Gilchrist in 1809. The next children were not born until about 10 yrs later, so am worried this is incorrect. I think his possible father is James Lightbody born 1765 in Carluke who married Margaret Rankine born 1770. However, I cannot seem to prove any of this as the census of 1841 seems to be lacking. There are Lightbodys in Carluke in 1841 but they don't appear to match. I'd love to take the family further back and also find out what the earlier ones did for a living. Any help much appreciated. ???
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First of all, did Archibald (1819-1895) die in Scotland? And if so, have you seen his death certificate? If not, go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and invest in a few credits. Use six of them to download the image of Alexander's death certificate. This should tell you the names of his parents including his mother's maiden surname. No need to speculate or struggle, or not yet, anyway.
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His Death does not have his mother's name. The informant was his son Samuel. Samuel was born Samuel Gilchrist Lightbody his mother was Christina Hastie. This is his second marriage which took place in 1869, he was 45 she 24. Yes he is the son of Alexander and Margaret Gilchrist.
The John Lightbody/Margaret Rankin birth of Alexander occurred in 1775. That being said there are others that could fit as well. But, then his father could be a completely different given name.
Go to SP select births type in Lightbody no given name and select Carluke it will generate the births. You can sort them by parents or date.
Don
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There are Lightbodys in Carluke in 1841 but they don't appear to match.
1841 Census transcription FreeCEN
Johns Street , Carluke , Lanarkshire(all born Lanarkshire).
Margaret Gilchrist 50 sewer
Marion Lightbody 17
Andrew Lightbody 15 iron miner
Marrion Yetts 20 sewer(Archibald's first wife ?)
also
1841 Kirkton Street , Carluke , Lanarkshire.
Alexander Lightbody 50 stocking maker b. unknown
John Lightbody 20 labourer b. unknown
Children of Alexander Lightbody and Margaret Gilchrist ?
Alexander b. 1809
Archibald b. 1819
John b. 1821
Marion b.1823
Andrew b. 1826
ev
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From the Church Records on SP -
Alexander Lightbody(other person Margaret Gilchrist) death , age 64 , date 20th Oct. 1846 , Carluke Lanark.
ev
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Thank you all for your helpful suggestions. I've been onto SP and bought a couple of items which were not of much help! I attach them. The first is Alexander Lightbody's burial record(1846) which gives Margaret Gilchrist as his wife but no other details. So I'm none the wiser re parents. The second is going back a generation, and I'm not sure what to make of it. It is a mortcloth record for an Alexr Lightbody, but if you look at the inscription it is rather confusing - Alexr Lightbody in law was also buried this day. I wondered if this is a child or what the in law means - or am I just misinterpreting the writing? ???
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There seems to be only one attachment?
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Yes, for some reason I couldn't get the other one to go. I'll try again.
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Law is the name of the place in the parish of Carluke where he lived.
See http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS8252
Also http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.7513&lon=-3.8884&layers=6&b=1
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Forfarian, thanks, that's very helpful. I assume he's not a child, but it doesn't give an age so not sure where this leaves me. Do you have any idea whether if an age is not given it's a child, but I assume, children would have a parent mentioned.
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Providing ALL the Alexander's were recorded; he was born in Carluke; and his age is correct on his death; then he would be the son of Alexander and Mary Gray.
Don
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Forfarian, thanks, that's very helpful. I assume he's not a child, but it doesn't give an age so not sure where this leaves me. Do you have any idea whether if an age is not given it's a child, but I assume, children would have a parent mentioned.
I think it is reasonable to suppose that if there is no age it's not very young child, but it could be an older person whom we would still think of as a child in this day and age, say aged from 10 upwards.
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If the death of Alexr in 1784 is a child then the Alexander/Mary gray child born 1782 could be this one. Is there any way I can verify that? Otherwise I'm a bit stumped as the only other Alexanders are born in Cambusnethan 1783 and Cadder 1790. I could check on Church of the Latter Day.
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If the death of Alexr in 1784 is a child then the Alexander/Mary gray child born 1782 could be this one. Is there any way I can verify that? Otherwise I'm a bit stumped as the only other Alexanders are born in Cambusnethan 1783 and Cadder 1790. I could check on Church of the Latter Day.
Unlikely. And there is no point in looking on the LDS web site for BMDs if there is nothing more in Scotland's People because what the LDS (and the various commercial web sites) have is indexes to original documents which are only available on Scotland's People.
The only other possible source would be a gravestone, if one exists. There are published booklets of pre-1855 monumental inscriptions in Lanarkshire.
If I were you I would get access to the film of the Carluke parish register and go through it, extracting all the Lightbody baptisms and marriages (use the index at Scotland's People to make sure you get them all) and see if they list residences and witnesses. Look also for Lightbodys cropping up as witnesses to other people's baptisms, and make a note of their residences, and see if you can build up a picture of where in the parish they lived.
To get access, assuming that you don't live anywhere handy for Lanarkshire and you don't want to pay 6 credits each to look at the 65 baptisms and 31 marriages of Lighbodys there, you need to go to any LDS Church Family History Library near you and arrange for them to rent the films of the Carluke parish register. There is a small fee for this. When the film arrives, take a day or two to go to the library, sit down and go through it carefully.
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Okay, thank you. I therefore think that the likelihood is that the 1782 birth is correct. I'll try the MIs. I'm guessing a lot of trees stop at this point because it becomes make believe after that unless you're lucky enough to come across a MI. ;D
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Hi Forfarian, Just saw the second part of your post re renting the film of the parish register. That's a good idea. I'm in the south of England so can't easily get to Lanarkshire. Ill look into the LDS option. Thank you for your help. :)
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Hi Forfarian, Just saw the second part of your post re renting the film of the parish register. That's a good idea. I'm in the south of England so can't easily get to Lanarkshire. Ill look into the LDS option. Thank you for your help. :)
Should be a LDS FHL not far from you then. Happy hunting!
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Can I ask if you know if a woman is called Margaret, can she also be known as Marrion or are there any other names she might call herself? I can't find a birth record for Margaret Gilchrist or a marriage record for the Margaret Gilchrist Alexander Lightbody realtionship. I wonder if they weren't officially married?
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Can I ask if you know if a woman is called Margaret, can she also be known as Marrion or are there any other names she might call herself? I can't find a birth record for Margaret Gilchrist or a marriage record for the Margaret Gilchrist Alexander Lightbody realtionship. I wonder if they weren't officially married?
The most likely explanation is that the marriage record, if it ever existed, has not survived.
I've never come across a Margaret being known as Marion. Pet names for Margaret include Daisy and Peggy, but the parish registers usually use the formal name.
I think there is at least one baptism of a child of theirs. Have you looked at the original image? Because it will make the parents' marital status clear.
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Hi Forfarian, Thanks again for your help. No, I've not looked, but I will, as I have found several children. I was trying to work out what each of their parents would have been called from their children's names, going by the naming tradition, and their children (the ones I have found) were: Alexander, John, Marion, Andrew and Archibald. I sort of assumed that the grandparents would be Alexander (father's side), John (mother's side), Marion (mother's side), but of course this could be nonsense. That hasn't helped me much either. I'll let you know what I find out. It doesn't help either, that the likely census has her age at 1841 as 50 and also his, but at his death in 1846 he is given as 64 which makes his birth 1782 ish, and at her death the age is given as 59 (1850), which gives her a birth date of either 1782 or 1791. Could be a transcription error in the census perhaps, as the death ages I have seen the actual record. I can't find anything just doing a very broad search across Scotland and England. If they were very poor, perhaps they didn't have enough money to pay for any church interventions. :-\
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Bear in mind that adults' ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years. So an age of 50, if accurate, means a DoB between 1786 and 1791.
An age of 64 in 1846, if accurate, means a DoB in 1791 or 1792, and an age of 59 in 1850, if accurate, means a DoB in 1790 or 1791.
If they were very poor, the parish would have borne the cost, for example, of funerals. It is far more lkely that, for whatever reason, they did not have their children's baptisms recorded in the Church of Scotland's parish register.
Maybe they belonged to some breakaway church or sect whose records, if any, have not survived. Maybe they just never got round to having the children baptised? Maybe the clerk forgot to write them down?
It is possible that there might be something in the records of Carluke Kirk Session that might shed some light on them. The KS records are only available in the Historical Search Room in Edinburgh and one or two other local archives at present, but there are plans to put them online at Scotland's People.
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I'll try to persuade my relatives in Edinburgh to do some sleuthing for me. I already want them to look up the Railway employee records (which have been transposed incorrectly on Ancestry). I'm up there next week for a couple of days but visiting relatives rather than having time to go record hunting (sadly). I am a bit torn, but have to put the living relatives first - the others will wait!
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You might want to get a hold of the Carluke Vital records DVD from http://www.carlukehistory.co.uk/ which has the MI inscriptions for the area, photographs of the stones and mortcloth records.
Re Alexander buried in 1784 - all other entries which refer to children describe them by age or as a son/ daughter of or child of and then give the fathers name (although as forfarian says you have to be careful regarding the description of a "child" which has changed over the years)
for example
James son to Alexander Lightbody in Carluke aged 3 years and 3 months December 1787
PS another possible reason for no records is that from 1783 to 1794 there was a stamp duty of 3 pence to be paid on every Registration
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Hi - I have family based Carluke / Lanarkshire / Lesmahagow which has Alexander Lightbody 1790 marrying Margaret Gilchrist who was born about 1800 - they had a child John Lightbody in 1821 approx. (marrying Elizabeth Hastings) and one son was Alexander Lightbody. This son Alexander Lightbody (latterly became an artist) married Janet Brown and the family eventually moved from Lanarkshire to Glasgow.
Does this sound like the same family ? I have other information - not sure if its possible to find out each other's emails to pass documents to you etc
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Hi jenski, and welcome to RootsChat.
Once you have made 3 posts on the forum, you will be able to use the Personal Message (PM) system to exchange e-mail addresses privately.
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Hello teilujnitram, I believe that Archibald Haldane Lightbody is my great-great grandfather. Not sure how to message you privately, as I am new to this.. I was doing some research and saw this post. I would be really keen to speak to you as I am researching with my grandmother, who's grandfather is Archibald.
Thank you!
Hayley.
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Hi Hayley, and welcome to RootsChat.
Once you have made three posts to the forums, you can use the Personal Message (PM) system to send a private message to another poster.