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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: stevej60 on Saturday 03 March 18 22:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi folk's,wondered if anyone could shed light on the family of my Gtx2 Grandfather John
Smith born at "World's end" which I believe is near Halton around 1825,we think his father
was also John and thank's to a tradition of using their wives maiden name as children's
middle names we presume his mother was called Ford,any info on either family would be appreciated.
John(Jr) married Lydia ann Robertson in Newcastle 1850.
Regard's Steve Smith.
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Taken from BucksFHS - Halton, Bucks. Transcripts CD.
Baptism - 28 Nov 1824. John, child of Jno & Sarah SMITH, of Halton, Servant to Sir Jno Dashwood, Bart (I can only assume that Bart., is short for Baronet.)
Baptism - 16 Feb 1823. Sarah Ann, child of John & Sarah SMITH of Halton, Steward to Sir John Dashwood, Bt
Burial - 1 Aug 1824. Sarah Ann SMITH aged 18m of Halton.
Burial - 31 Mar 1838. Sarah SMITH aged 43 of Weston Turville.
Burial - 28 Sep 1863. Sir John Richard DASHWOOD aged 67, Bart, Clerk of Halton.
John Richard Dashwood, 6th Baronet of West Wycombe, Bucks.
Birthdate: 1792 (71)
Death: September 24, 1863 (71)
Immediate Family:
Son of Sir John Dashwood-King, 4th Baronet and Mary Anne Broadhead
Brother of Sir George Henry Dashwood, 5th Baronet and Captain Edwin Sandys Dashwood
No marriage at Halton for John/Johnathon & Sarah Smith.
I have the CD for Weston Turville PR's. I'll look tomorrow, as that may bear more fruit.
Steve. :)
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There is a marriage for a John Smith and Sarah Ford at West Wycombe, 25 May 1822.
Your John 1850 marriage certificate should confirm if his father is the John and Sarah found by bucksboy.
Jo :)
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There is a marriage for a John Smith and Sarah Ford at West Wycombe, 25 May 1822.
Your John 1850 marriage certificate should confirm if his father is the John and Sarah found by bucksboy.
Jo :)
That marriage would make perfect sense, with West Wycombe being mostly the Dashwood Estate, and John Smith being a Bailiff/Steward under the Dashwood estate, Plus the fact that John Richard Dashwood was a Clergyman. He more than likely married them, as well as baptising the Smith children.
There are 6 other Smith children baptised at Weston Turville, of John & Sarah SMITH of Weston Turville, Bailiff
1826 - Sarah Ann.
1829 - James.
1832 - Elizabeth.
1833 - William.
1836 - Hugh George.
Steve. :)
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Jo,many thank's I think that's certainly their wedding,
Steve,great information many thank's for taking the time to find it,there are certainly
names in the Smith baptisms that turn up in John and lydia's family among
John Ford Smith
Anne Dove Smith
James Frazier Smith
Vincent Smith
William Abbey Smith(my Gt Grandfather).
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To put some possible details of that marriage(as it's only an online transcription), it may well be worth £1 for the information, from BucksFHS marriages database.
It may give a those extra bits of info, that may help further.
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php/research/36-requested-searches/22-marriage-searches
Steve. :)
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Cheer's Steve that may be the way to go,We are(that is my brother with the Ancestry account)
chasing up those children baptised to John and Sarah in various Cencus,John Smith snr's
occupation on his son's marriage certificate is "factor".
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Have you traced John Smith seniors death. Do you know where he was born at all. Is he in Cenus returns, and where ?
Factor(an Agent transacting business for merchants, or Sold goods on commission), is different to Bailiff or Steward. But he may well have been doing both, at the same time, or later a 'Factor'.
Steve. :)
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1841 Halton House
Sir J Dashwood K, 75
Rev. J Dashwood Bart, 45
John Smith, 55, bailiff, born Scotland
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1841 Halton House
Sir J Dashwood K, 75
Rev J Dashwood Bart, 45
John Smith, 55, Bailiff, born Scotland
1841 Wendover Back Street (end of High Street)
Mary Green, 30, F.S. born Bucks
James Smith, 12
Elizabeth Smith, 10,
William Smith, 7
George Smith, 5
1851 High Street Wendover
William ?Croxford?, head, widower, cabinet maker, born Wendover
Louisa Green, niece, 33, housekeeper, born Wendover (note Mary Green with Smith children in 1841)
James illegible, nephew, 7, born Wendover
Henry ditto, nephew, 4, born Wendover
John Ford Smith, 70, married, lab. Pauper, born Scotland
George Smith, son of above, 14, errand boy, born Bucks Weston
Given that this John Smith has goes from Bailiff to labourer/pauper in ten years is interesting. Also of interest is his middle name shown as Ford in the 1851.
This makes this entry of interest......
1851 Stanley Street Manchester Lancs
John Smith, 60, commission agent, born Scotland
Sarah, wife, 46, born Cheshire
Benjamin, son, 9, born Salford
Thomas, son, 5, born Walkden Cheshire
Martha Harrop, sis/law, 31, born Cheshire
Jo :)
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Thanks again folk's your information has moved on our search more in a couple of day's than
we've been able to in many a year,I knew there was a Scottish connection as bagpipes always
make the hair's on the back of my neck stand up! As my brother is on Ancestry he's been trying
to follow up some of the children fromthe list supplied starting with James,it appear's he enlisted in
the 5th regiment of foot and after service ended up in Alnwick,it was the naming of his two children
that's convinced us of the definite connection William b1871 and George Vincent b1878,Vincent was
the name of John Jr's son and the middle name of my Grandfather Robert Vincent smith,so dicounting
the family we know Vincent must have come from the Smith/Ford ancestor's.
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1851 census in Wendover, seems the most likely for the 'Worlds End family'. But the other 1851 census 'Commision Agent' throws a bit of a spanner in the works, as he seems to have the right job title of 'Factor'.
There is a burial in Wendover, taken from BucksFHS. St Mary's Wendover Transcripts CD.
Burial - 28 Sep 1855. John SMITH aged 75 of Wendover.
No other details, so gives a y.o.b. of c1780, +/-
The death cert would be the next step, if this is the correct John Smith senior. Possibly districts of Wycombe, Aylesbury or Amersham registered. Age given at burial, may differ from age given at registration of death, depending on who gives the information to Clerk of the Church, or the registar.
George Smith(son), might be Hugh George Smith(baptised 1836), in the 1841 & 1851 census.
Steve. :)
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Once again many thank's Steve,I'm dubious about the Manchester John Smith but as you know
in this game anything's possible,the John Ford Smith in the 51 cencus to me seem's to be a much
more likely candidate however having the Ford as a middle name throws a spanner in the work's
of our bride,certainly she's Sarah but was her maiden name Ford pure coincidence and is the Green
family in need of furthur consideration? I feel there's more to discover.
Regard's Steve.
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Hi Steve,
I'm with bucksboy in that the Manchester John Smith is certainly worth following to ensure he's not your guy, checking the marriage certificates of your own JS's siblings to see if they all say "factor", what addresses and witnesses are given is a good option. The JS in Manchester obviously remarried, finding him is 1841 (like a needle in a haystack) to rule him out is also a good option.
This may give some hint at the change of fortune for the JS bailiff......1849.....Bucks Herald....
"Halton - Sale at Halton - During this and the preceding week, the whole of the beautiful household furniture, plate and various effects of Sir John Dashwood King, Bart., of Halton House, have been bought to the hammer, but under what circumstances we are not in a position to state"
Jo :)
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Thank's again Jo,so much to check from what you folk's have dug up my initial post was really
a long shot that's really paid off taking my direct Smith line back to the late 1780/90's and giving
me a new line with James' familly right back to North east England again,probably never know what
brought John F Smith jr to Newcastle way back in 1850 he was a draper all his life and died around
1903.
Regards Steve.
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Hi Steve,
I'm with bucksboy in that the Manchester John Smith is certainly worth following to ensure he's not your guy, checking the marriage certificates of your own JS's siblings to see if they all say "factor", what addresses and witnesses are given is a good option. The JS in Manchester obviously remarried, finding him is 1841 (like a needle in a haystack) to rule him out is also a good option.
This may give some hint at the change of fortune for the JS bailiff......1849.....Bucks Herald....
"Halton - Sale at Halton - During this and the preceding week, the whole of the beautiful household furniture, plate and various effects of Sir John Dashwood King, Bart., of Halton House, have been bought to the hammer, but under what circumstances we are not in a position to state"
Jo :)
Sir John Dashwood-King, 4th Baronet (1765 – 22 October 1849). His death may explain the sale.
Halton House was sold to Sir Francis Dashwood in 1720 and was then held in the Dashwood family for almost 150 years. (WIKI).
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I'm looking for information on John Smith, Esq born in 1800 Manchester, Lancashire, England. Married Mary Solloway b 1795 Barton, Lancashire, England. I have their Son as Canon Henry Robert Smith. 1823-1896. I have lots of history on his son but i can't get anywhere on his father.
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I'm looking for information on John Smith, Esq born in 1800 Manchester, Lancashire, England. Married Mary Solloway b 1795 Barton, Lancashire, England. I have their Son as Canon Henry Robert Smith. 1823-1896. I have lots of history on his son but i can't get anywhere on his father.
Hello Mswainston I would post this one in Lancashire county thread if you haven't already.
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Hi Folk's once again many thank's for all your help with this query,we're sure it's the right
family John(junior's) 1850 Marriage certificate state's father as deceased occupation agent,we
have been able to trace James through a career in the army and by coincedence being discharged
and settling just a few miles up the road from John in Alnwick Northumberland.John we now know
died in Newcastle aged 86 in1910 and is buried in Elswick which is a suburb of the city.