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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: kjmck on Sunday 04 March 18 21:14 GMT (UK)
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I'm looking to find the parents of the above Annie Hargreaves.
She married Arthur Thomas Jones on 1st August 1931 at St Silas' Liverpool, her father is listed as William Hargreaves (Mariner - does not say deceased).
Annie Jones nee Hargreaves died November 1994 aged 83 in Liverpool, and her date of birth is given as 22nd January 1911.
I thought I had found her parents as William Hargreaves & Florence Corkish -
HARGREAVES, ANNIE CORKISH Order
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 610
Yet discovered from the 1939 Register that this Annie was born in December of 1910 and her married name was Blundell.
Theres only one other Annie Hargreaves registered Jan-Mar 1911 and that was an Annie born to Edwin/Edward Hargreaves & Isabella Doyle, in Manchester. Edward was a Carter in 1911, and Annie is listed as being 4 months old.
Any suggestions anyone?
Thank you!
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Do you know for certain that she was born in Liverpool?
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The Lancs OPC site has the following Baptism
Baptised 8 March 1911 St Aidan, Kirkdale, Lancs
Annie Hargreaves child of Sarah Hargreaves single woman
Born 22 January 1911
Abode 48 Lemon Street
The father mentioned on the marriage certificate may just have been to save face, so to speak.
Emeltom
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Thanks for that, I don't know why I can't find her on the GRO index. I shall try and find her in 1911, perhaps her grandfather was William Hargreaves.
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Just curious if you're able to find Annie in 1911, I don't seem to be having much luck. ??? ???
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She may be with a family of a different surname if she was illegitimate
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Near the time of the birth the family living at 48 Lemon Street were john and Georgina Robinson with two children and lodgers named Gibson.
Jennifer
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Any one have a suggestion as to why there is no birth record for Annie, only the baptismal record found before?
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have you found your Annie on the 1939 register or Arthur
I am struggling also to find her in 1911
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The distance between Lemon Street Kirkdale and Bridgewater Street Liverpool is 2 .9 miles,
hence me posting this
St Michael Liverpool,
St Michael Liverpool
Sarah Hargreaves
Born 6th Jan 1887
baptised 15th Jan 1900
child of William Hargreaves a stoker and his wife Ann
abode Bridgewater St
father deceased
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Also at St Michael Liverpool
Ann Hargreaves
born 6th March 1881
baptised 8th September 1894
abode 52 Henry Street
Father William mother Ann
fathers occupation ships fireman
both Ann and Sarah were resident in the Park Lane Industrial School for girls when they were baptised
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Joseph Ellis Hargreaves
born 5th November 1874
baptised 15th Feb 1876
father William a Fireman
Mum Annie
abode Wilde Street
distance from Lemon Street 1.7 miles
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Ann Keating married William Hargreaves in Liverpool in 1874
Joseph birth reg has mother Keating
i MAY BE LEADING YOU ASTRAY HERE SORRY
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FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Annie Jones 22 Jan 1911 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 20 1
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Edna May Muirhead (Jones) 16 Sep 1938 Female - Single 20 3
Sarah Winter 06 Sep 1889 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 20 4
Annie in 1939, but I can't find Arthur.
Thanks for the info on potential family for Annie, it's the best lead I have to go on.
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Thomas Tague marries an Annie Hargreaves on the 3rd of April 1904
if you look them up,in 1911 there is a single lady Ada Hargreaves and a 4 year old Sarah Hargreaves living with them
my thoughts are should the child be 4 months not years
Annie Hargreaves wife of Thomas Tague her father is William Hargreaves
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HARGREAVES, SARAH - Order
GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 120 Order
I've had a quick look and i've feeling this is the Sarah in the 1911 census you mention Radcliff.
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Marriage
Liverpool
St Simon
June 13th 1920
Charles Winter,aged 42 bachelor,labourer
abode 46 Ainsworth St,father James deceased
Sarah Hargreaves,aged 33 spinster,father William Hargreaves deceased
abode 46 Ainsworth Street
witnessed by Ellen Knowles and Frank Kenwright ?
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when you checked the 1939 register where are they living please
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Apologies, 36 Russell Street in Liverpool is where they are living.
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Just trying to locate Ann Hargreaves who dies in Walton in December 1893
she is aged 44 and lived in Suffolk street to see if she is Mum to Sarah and Granny of your Annie
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in 1945
Annie Jones and Sarah Winter are living
at 20 Kebble Street Edge Hill
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go forward to 1950
Arthur Thomas Jones,Annie Jones and Sarah Winter are together in 20 Kebble St
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Arthur and Annie are still in Kebble St in 1965
in 1955 Sarah Winter is still living with them as well as a Annie and two other Jones one femal starting with D and a male starting with W A
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So does it start to make sense
that Sarah Hargreaves daughter of William Hargreaves had a child,Annie whilst she was unmarried in 1911
and later married in 1920 Charles Winter,and lived out her older days with Arthur and Annie Jones in Kebble St
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Wow thank you so much!
Arthur & Annie Jones had a son called William Arthur Jones (now deceased) and William Arthur was married to a woman whose name begins with a D. So maybe it was those two.
So, Annie is the daughter of Sarah who married Charles Winters, and Sarah was the daughter of William & Ann.
I'm just trying to find Sarah's birth record so I can order a certificate.
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Arthur's death?
NAME: Arthur Thomas Jones
BIRTH: 8 Dec 1907
DEATH: Feb 1986 - Liverpool, Merseyside, England
And Sarah's in 1955
What was Arthur's occupation? Could he have been at sea in 1939 & 1945?
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possible sighting in 1901
RG13/3420
30 Gradwell Street
Liverpool,
Headed by James and Martha Pinder,
there are these three boarding in the household
Annie Hargraves aged 20,single,born Liverpool
Ada Hargraves aged 17,born Liverpool
Sarah Hargraves aged 14,born Liverpool
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Radcliff, did you ever find out if the Ann Hargreaves who died in 1893 was the mother of Sarah, and grandmother of Annie? On Sarah's baptism in 1900 it only mentions that William Hargreaves is dead, nothing about the mother.
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No sorry I have been at work just back to your post now,
it would be great if we could find the girls in other census then move around those dates and places
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I am thinking I shan't dismiss the 1911 census headed by Thomas Tague and his wife Ann,nee Hargreaves
as these two, Ada and Ann could be Sarah's sisters
Sarah aged 4 the child's birth registered J 1906,mother Hargreaves
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FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Annie Jones 22 Jan 1911 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 20 1
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Edna May Muirhead (Jones) 16 Sep 1938 Female - Single 20 3
Sarah Winter 06 Sep 1889 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 20 4
Only just clicked that Sarah was living with Annie in 1911. ::) ::)
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1881 Census.
Possibly Sarah Hargreaves' mother and brothers living at 19 Cadmus Street, Liverpool. Anne is listed as Married but no husband present. William Keating could be Anne's brother
William Keating 28
Mary Hannah Keating 27
William Samuel Keating 5
Edward Keating
Anne Hargraves 30
Joseph Hargraves 6
William Hargraves 4
Edward Hargraves 2
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the marriage for those two
St Peter Everton
21st June 1874
William Keating ,22,Seaman,bachelor of 34 Rosa Vale
Mary Hannah Tonkinson,aged 20,spinster of 144 Stitt st
grooms father James Keating,shipwright
brides father Samuel Tonkinson,porter
witnessed by Joseph Cogdell and Annie Simm
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What I am struggling a bit with is finding the births of the Hargreaves children.
HARGREAVES, CHRISTOPHER KEATING Order
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 394 Order
HARGREAVES, JOSEPH KEATING Order
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 66 Order
HARGRAVES, WILLIAM KEATING Order
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 362 Order
HARGRAVES, FREDERICK KEATING Order
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 173 Order
HARGRAVES, ANN JANE KEATING Order
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 376 Order
HARGREAVES, ADA ELIZABETH KEATING Order
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 106
HARGREAVES, ADA KEATING Order
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 101
The baptismal record for Ann Jane Hargreaves gives her birth as 29/03/1882 with parents William & Ann, William being a Fireman. Different dates to what you found.
Also, cannot find Sarah or Edward's birth/baptism record.
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1891 census
6 court Grayson Street
Mary Hargraves,married sailors wife,husband at sea,aged 41 born St Helens
William aged 14
Edward aged 12
Ann aged 9
Ada aged 6
Sarah aged 3
all children born Liverpool
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William on his marriage in 1898 to Mary Ann Towns gives his father as William Hargraves ,fireman
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I wonder at what point he became a Stoker then as it says on Sarah's baptism. I guess ordering Sarah's marriage certificate to Charles Winter would help in giving her father's name and occupation.
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St Peter Liverpool
birth 21st May
Baptism October 2nd 1884
Ada Elizabeth
daughter of William and Ann Hargraves
father a fireman
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a fireman/stoker, onboard a ship,kept the the fires going must have been an awful hot and hard job
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I wonder if Ada Elizabeth died in infancy, as another Ada born a year and a half later.
Deaths Mar 1955 (>99%)
Winter Sarah 65 Liverpool S. 10d 668
I am guessing this is our Sarah, she gave her birth date as 06/09/1889 on the 1939 Register, so I am guessing she kept with that DOB up until her death.
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I thought I had given you Sarahs marriage
her father is a deceased fireman named William Hargreaves
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oh you may have done, I am losing track of all these messages I think ;D
I'm very grateful for all your help Radcliff
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Just a quick query - any idea why Ann changed to Mary in 1891?
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I missed his occupation of the marriage he was indeed a fireman
I think this is starting to come together
at last
so we have Mum and older siblings in 1881
Mum and siblings plus the girls in 1891
you have most of the childrens births and baptisms
plus quite a few marriages
Mum may be Mary Ann see if we can find the parents marriage
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Freebmd has a marriage
Liverpool registered September 1874
Ann Keating and William Hargreaves
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she's Ann Keating in 1851
Gore Street with her parents James and Elizabeth father a shipwright
living in Gore Street,
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Burial
8th November 1893
Walton Park
Ann Hargreaves
aged 44
abode 17 Suffolk Street
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Maybe William remarried after Ann died then to this Mary.
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Also very confusing now is that in 1841 James Keating is married to a Mary, 1851 to Elizabeth, 1861 to Mary and then by 1871 he's widowed.
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names are often just changed around so I wouldnt worry to much as in these two baptisms
St Michael Liverpool
baptised 10th Jan 1857
Joseph Keating
born 27th December 1856
abode Dexter Street
father James a shipwright,mother Elizabeth
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Baptised only four days later
14th Jan 1857
Mary Keating
abode Dexter Street
Father James a shipwright,mother Elizabeth
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St Philips Liverpool
March 14th 1841
James Keating,full age,bachelor ,shipwright
abode Liverpool,father Edward Keating custom house officer
Elizabeth Hancock,full age spinster,
abode Liverpool,father James Hancock,shipwright
married by banns
witnessed by Luke Davies and ???
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I've noticed that I may be getting confused with another couple featuring a James Keating. The James Keating married to Mary in 1841, already had a 9 month old son Called Edward, but James Keating & Elizabeth Hancock didnt marry until 1841 so ??? I've found a death for Edward Keating in 1859 aged 79, in Liverpool.
Can I ask where you find your info for baptisms etc
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I am using a mixture of resources,Lancs OPC,Ancestry and family search,
here's another baptism
St Peter Liverpool,
October 23rd 1876
William Hargreaves
son of William a fireman and Elizabeth
abode Everton
same Place as Ann Jane,who was born March 29th 1882
and Ada Elizabeth born 21st May baptised 2nd October 1884
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so we still have no birth registration for Annie or a possible 1911,for her with Mum Sarah
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Ada Hargreaves went on to marry in June of 1911 to Charles Davett,in Liverpool.
they are living with Annie and Thomas Tague in Ainsworth Street in 1920,and in 1925,
Annie Tague,in later life also lives in Kemble Street,
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St Peter Liverpool
13th July 1874
William Hargreaves,full age,bachelor,fireman
abode,Charles Street
father Joseph Hargreave,butcher
Anne Keating,full age,spinster,
abode,Richmond Street
father James Keating,shipwright
William makes his x,Anne signs her name
witnesses to the marriage can't read it and Jane Doyle
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St Peter Liverpool
28th March 1898
William Hargreaves,aged 45, widower,fireman
of Kent Street,
Father Joseph,a butcher
Martha Pinder aged 45,a widow
abode Kent Street,
father Harry Martin Butler a horsekeeper
witness to the marriage Elias Williams and Anne Pilkington
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and this is where I am confused because obviously the marriages match up,for William,
but when you look at the 1901 census
Martha Pinder has a husband James Pinder,
and Anne,Sarah and Ada Hargreaves are boarding with her in Gradwell St,Martha has a lot of children of her own,why would she state on the census she was married to Jaames Pinder when 3 years before that she married as a widow to William Hargreaves
incidently Martha Pinder is in Suffolk Street in 1911,and this is the same St as Annie Hargreaves died in 1893
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Still looking for the 1911 no joy,
but the naming of his first son did catch my eye so I went in search of William Hargreaves father and found this
St Peter Liverpool
3rd August 1851
Joseph Ellis Hargreaves,full age,bachelor,Butcher
of Richmand Row
father William Hargreaves a butcher
Jane Tomlinson,full age spinster
of Richmond Row,
father James Tomlinson,book binder
married by banns and witnessed by John Gildart and Jane Moon,
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Baptised as William Thomas Hargreaves,father Ellis mother Jane,
Holy Trinity,Batley Carr,his sister Sarah is baptised the same day,September 4th 1853
father a butcher,
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in 1861 William is living with his Grandparents James and Nancy Tomlinson,in Liverpool,
this census states he is born Yorkshire ,if you have acces to the Liverpool Crew lists you will see there are records for a William Hargreaves born Leeds,right up to 1898,you need to get these checked out,
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in 1871 he is living in Liverpool
with his mother who has remarried to Frederick Robertson,he has step brothers and sisters,
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