RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: mrcakey on Tuesday 06 March 18 15:10 GMT (UK)
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This question may have been asked before, but is there an easy way to discern which registers have not been published on Lancashire OPC?
I can't find any record on the OPC of my GGG-grandparents who died in Newton-with-Scales in 1864/1869. I'd like to understand which nearby churches (they lived in Newton-with-Scales) have been processed and by deduction, they should be in one of the other ones.
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Hello,
I suppose one easy way is to check with parishes to see if the one you want is there.
Genuki doesn’t show a church for Newton.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/NewtonwithScales
Kirkham mentions it so you could check what is covered by Lancs opc for Kirkham.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Kirkham
You could also contact Lancs opc for advice, perhaps.
The Genuki site shows boundaries so you could check local townships for churches.
Best wishes
Heywood
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I think they've done loads on Anglican churches, but unfortunately not seem to have had access to many non-conformist chapels. R.C. ones more evident now than they used to be. It's a brilliant resource, any way, isn't it? So grateful for it.
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Are you trying to find their burial? Could they have been buried in a cemetery rather than a churchyard? Do you know their religion? There were other, unofficial burial grounds in the parish of Kirkham for various denominations.
Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society has a Fylde branch which includes Kirkham. Someone there may know.
By coincidence I've been researching a line from Salwick in Kirkham parish over the past few days. Some Catholic chapels they attended had burial grounds and there are records for some years.
I haven't come across burial records for my newly identified 5x great- grandparents who died in 1839 and 1847. They are not in Kirkham parish register and the Catholic one stopped too early.
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GEN UKI lists a dozen churches within 3 miles of Newton-with -Scales open in 1860s. Some had graveyards.
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What were the names of your 3 x Gt Grandparents please?
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Newton with Scales was grouped together with Lund Church, just to the north of Clifton towards Salwick station, opposite the Springfields Fuels site. The current building dates from 1824.
The registers are at Lancashire Archives as PR2926 and PR3219.
Depending on where in Newton they lived, it might have been a shorter journey to Kirkham.
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Hello,
I suppose one easy way is to check with parishes to see if the one you want is there.
Genuki doesn’t show a church for Newton.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/NewtonwithScales
Kirkham mentions it so you could check what is covered by Lancs opc for Kirkham.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Kirkham
You could also contact Lancs opc for advice, perhaps.
The Genuki site shows boundaries so you could check local townships for churches.
Best wishes
Heywood
The parish church for Newton with Scales is the same one as Clifton with Salwick, known as the parish of Lund. (Newton is where I live - the Scales bit to be precise!)
sorry I had not read all of this thread when I posted & the info was already there - Lund church & Kirkham St Michaels are roughly equidistant from Newton. Who were you looking for?
Lund churchyard is for burials of anyone who lived within the parish not just for members of the church. Unfortunately only the marriages have been transcribed.
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Thanks all. I've done my "logical brain missing the obvious step" thing. I thought if there was a list of parishes yet to do for the OPC that I could narrow my search down to only those, completely omitting to think that I could just start at the church closest to them! Of course, if they're not there then I'll still have to do that.
The people I'm looking for are:
Margaret Houghton (nee Raby) - abt 1810 to 12/12/1864
Robert Houghton - Aug 1797 to 14/02/1869
They had some children who sadly died in their youth too and may be buried in the same place:
Elizabeth Houghton - 27/10/1840 to 20/04/1864
Martha Ellen Houghton - 25/06/1846 to 13/02/1864
Jennet Raby Houghton - 03/12/1854 to 07/09/1862
William Houghton - 28/03/1848 to 28/04/1848
The OPC is a wonderful project. I wish I could get more involved. The website says they're only looking for photographers, which I don't think would work for me as I live in the North East.
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Our church warden at Lund has checked the burial records and the only Houghton family does not appear until about 1930. She suggested that the burial ground was fairly new or even not open in the 1860s. She suggested that several Newton people were baptised at Freckleton so that is also an option along with St Michael’s Kirkham. Were they CofE or RC?
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That was really kind of you/her. Thank you so much.
They were married at St. Michael's and Robert's parents and two of his siblings are buried in St. Michael's, but there's no record of any of Robert's family there. I've even ordered and checked a survey of monumental inscriptions and I can't see any of them on there either.
I suppose I'm back to my original plan which is comparing the gaps in the OPC with nearby parishes. Squinty eyes at the Archives time again! :D
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Bit of a post script.
I've just discovered two things: first that a Robert Houghton who matches mine in all details except his age (one year out) marries an Alice Ramsbottom (widower) in Lund church on 7/4/1866.
Second I've found someone's PhD thesis on Stanley Houghton (playwright) who states that Stanley says his grandparents were "strict non-conformists" (whatever that means). Stanley's grandfather would have been Robert's nephew, so maybe by extension the rest of the family were non-conformists? That said, I believe George, who would be Stanley's great-grandfather (and brother of my Robert) is buried in Kirkham alongside *his*/Robert's father.
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And many non-conformist records are not on Lancs OPC, sadly. I've a lot hiding in non-conformist chapel records, I suspect, in several parts of Lancs.
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And many non-conformist records are not on Lancs OPC, sadly. I've a lot hiding in non-conformist chapel records, I suspect, in several parts of Lancs.
If you have anything specific you'd like me to look up, I can have a quick gander tomorrow when I'm at the archives - http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-record-office/our-collections/church-registers-guide/
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Thanks, I've had a few from visits to the archives there, but sadly they're not all there ( the records, not my rellies ... well, not all that sure!). It's odd, but apparently so.
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Do you have later relatives eg Alice who died between 1945 to 1993 in the Kirkham area who may be buried at Lund church? If so I have the details of all of those.
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I've just discovered two things: first that a Robert Houghton who matches mine in all details except his age (one year out) marries an Alice Ramsbottom (widower) in Lund church on 7/4/1866.
BT here (need to be logged in)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-65D3-Z48?i=221&cat=677197
Lots of Lancashire records free on FamilySearch. Maybe not much for nonconformist places of worship after 1837.
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The Zion church of Kirkham has a graveyard (which is well hidden - I have never seen it). It closed a long time ago and the records in the the record office only go up to 1837. It was replaced by Kirkham Congregational (now URC) but there do not seem to be any records around. It has no graveyard itself and apparently for some years still used the Zion one.
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Well I had my least productive day ever at the archives. :( The further you get with your research, the more effort it takes. On Tuesday, it was like my ancestors were hiding. My visit was only redeemed by taking part in the "Getting to Know the Archives" talk, which was led by a nice chap called David Tyldesley who confirmed that I'd basically not been using the archives to their fullest extent but also took us on a tour of the strong room where I saw the original of the 1742 Guild Roll, which was great excitement for me.
As for my GGG-grandfather, I couldn't find him in the registers for Lund or Barton or Freckleton. I took my lunch in Kirkham hoping to see my GGGG-grandfather's gravestone at St. Michael's (couldn't find it) and then had a trudge around the former Zion church graveyard. If you have any ancestors called Whiteside, it's a great place to look! Couldn't find him there either.
I think this non-conformist thing seems to be a thread I need to pull at. I have it in my head that my GGG-grandmother (Margaret Raby) was non-conformist too, although I can't remember where I picked that up.
One of the things the chap at the archives said was that C of E churches are obliged to hand over their registers to archives, but non-conformists are not. I think I'll write to the present church and see if I can ascertain the whereabouts of their registers.
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Do you have later relatives eg Alice who died between 1945 to 1993 in the Kirkham area who may be buried at Lund church? If so I have the details of all of those.
Hi Ann, given the surname and location it's likely that they are distant relatives, but they won't be of my branch (my GG-grandparents re-located to Manchester in the mid 19th C.).
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The Lancs. OPC is indeed a splendid resource. I wish some other counties would do half as good a job. The Lancastrians have shown that it's possible -- though a lot of work, I'm sure.
How can we drum up the support and manpower for some other counties?
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Yes, it is really wonderful! I really wish Derbyshire, or Cheshire, or even Yorkshire were as brilliant. Lancs O P C should run masterclasses for the rest!!
TY
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It's an amazing resource. I didn't realise how spoiled I was until I started researching ancestors from other counties.
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It's an amazing resource. I didn't realise how spoiled I was until I started researching ancestors from other counties.
I second that.
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It's an amazing resource. I didn't realise how spoiled I was until I started researching ancestors from other counties.
probably carried unanimously!
I too have looked at the opc for other counties and they are nowhere near as good
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Three Cheers for all at L PC online! Volunteers all, as far as I know...
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I have lived in the Kirkham area for nearly 50 years but only today have I noticed the Zion graveyard. When I went looking last week I drove down the wrong length of Marsden Street. It is nice to learn something new about my home area.
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I have lived in the Kirkham area for nearly 50 years but only today have I noticed the Zion graveyard. When I went looking last week I drove down the wrong length of Marsden Street. It is nice to learn something new about my home area.
It's a pleasant little plot isn't it?
Just a shame (for me) that I can't find my relatives there. I've emailed the current church to ask after the registers but haven't had a response yet.