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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Pembrokeshire => Wales => Pembrokeshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Walt69 on Wednesday 07 March 18 13:40 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find BMD records for my great grandparents John Owen - supposedly born Pontvaene (1856-1935) and his wife Mary - supposedly born Newport (1855-1948), as well as their parents, of whom I know nothing.
I live in Canada, and a newly found Welsh "cousin" who now lives in Devon, previously from Milford Haven, advised me:
"...The difficulty with the family is that they were non-conformists and not all records have been filmed..."
This newly found Welsh cousin provided me with an invaluable listing of birthdates of my great-grandparents, and of their children:
NAME BORN
Great-grandparents:
MARY OWENS 1 June 1855
JOHN OWENS 13 March 1856
Children of the above:
MARTHA OWENS 9 October 1875 (my grandmother who emigrated to Canada in 1903)
HANNA MARY OWENS 13 February 1877
DINA OWENS 30 March 1878
THOMAS OWENS 28 March 1879
ANN OWENS 6 December 1882
WILLIAM OWENS 6 October 1883
ANNIE OWENS 4 January 1887 (my cousin's grandmother)
ELIZABETH OWENS 9 April 1888
ESTHER OWENS 4 March 1890
MARGARET OWENS 3 February 1895
Another Canada cousin provided me with a blurry photo of my great-grandparents gravestone (that also includes their youngest daughter, Maggie).
I struggled to decipher what was actually written in Welsh on the dark, blurry photo, then I typed out what I thought is on it and then entered it into Google Translate and came up with some tentative death dates for:
MARGARET (Maggie) OWENS died 20 Dec 1908
JOHN OWENS died 11 May 1935
MARY OWENS died 23 Dec 1948
I attempted multiple times to attach the photo of the gravestone but with no luck, in hopes that someone could confirm whether I have transcribed the information correctly, and secondly, that the translation is correct.
MARGARET (Maggie) OWENS died 20 Dec 1908
JOHN OWENS died 11 May 1935
MARY OWENS died 23 Dec 1948
I also received a very old photo identified on the reverse side of the photo as “the family home in Dinas Cross” (c. early 1920’s) with the phrase/term “Yet Y Bontbren”.
It is a two-story stone house with a chimney at each end of the roof.
My Welsh cousin just sent me an email regarding this house in which she states:
“…The photograph of the cottage we are pretty sure it is Ty-Canol, (meaning middle cottage), at Yet-y-Bontbren. You can use Google maps to find an excellent picture of it. It is on the main road just west of Dinas, in a row of 3 cottages, there is a small lawn in front now. Yet-y-Bontbren is a small hamlet/area in Dinas…”
I attempted multiple times to attach the photo of the gravestone and the photo of the house in hopes that someone could confirm whether I have transcribed the information correctly, and secondly, that the translation is correct, but I have given up after many futile attempts.
Any information about this family and their ancestors would be very much appreciated.
Thank you for your attention to my request.
Regards,
Walt
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Welcome to rootschat :)
Children of the above:
MARTHA OWENS 9 October 1875 (my grandmother who emigrated to Canada in 1903)
HANNA MARY OWENS 13 February 1877
DINA OWENS 30 March 1878
THOMAS OWENS 28 March 1879
ANN OWENS 6 December 1882
WILLIAM OWENS 6 October 1883
ANNIE OWENS 4 January 1887 (my cousin's grandmother)
ELIZABETH OWENS 9 April 1888
ESTHER OWENS 4 March 1890
MARGARET OWENS 3 February 1895
Going from these birthdates their mothers maiden surname appears to be Edwards :-\
OWENS, HANNAH MARY mmn EDWARDS
1877 March Quarter in HAVERFORDWEST Volume 11A Page 981
OWENS, DINAH mmn EDWARDS
1878 June Quarter in HAVERFORDWEST Volume 11A Page 971
OWENS, THOMAS mmn EDWARDS
1880 June Quarter in HAVERFORDWEST Volume 11A Page 945
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Possible marriage :-\
Marriage June qtr 1875
Owens John
Edwards Mary
Cardigan reg district 11b 13
It is not possible to add photo's to look up boards. ;)
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For anyone trying to help :)
1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2W9-YFMK
1891
RG12 / 4540 f42 p6
Mary Owen age 35 Married bn Dinas
rest of family bn Fishguard
Dinah 13
Thomas 11
William 9
Anne 6
Lizzie 4
Esther 10 months
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1901 census Ystybontbren, Dinas Cross RG13/5132 folio 46 pg 5
John Owen head mar 45 farmer & general labourer b. Pontvane
Mary wife 45 b. Newport
John son 22 b. Llanwnda
Elizabeth dau 13
Esther dau 11
David J son 8
Margarette dau 3
Morgan L grandson 3
all born Fishguard unless noted
Think you'll need the marriage cert for John & Mary to go further back. It would confirm details for their fathers. Pontvane could be a variant of Pontfaen.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/Pontfaen
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The marriage cert. is certainly required.
If the birth dates of 1st June 1856 and 13 March 1855 can be "trusted", the following General Register Office (GRO) birth registrations fit those dates -
John Owen, Jun Qtr 1856, registration district Haverfordwest, vol 11a page 71- mother's maiden name James.
"Pontvane" as birthplace on the 1901 Census and the 1881 Census shows "Morvil". Both Pontfaen and Morvil fall within the Haverfordwest registration district (source Genuki Registration Districts).
Mary Edwards, Jun Qtr 1855, registration district Cardigan, vol 11b page8 - mother's maiden name John.
"Newport" shown as birthplace on the 1881 Census. Newport falls within the Cardigan registration district (source Genuki registration districts)
1861 Census ref. RG09 4173 5 3
Address Llain Parol (? - parch), LLanllchlwydog, Cardigan, Pembrokeshire
Levi Owens, Head, Marr , 34, born Puncheston
Martha Owens, Wife, Marr, 37, born Nevern
Anne Owens, Dau, 9, Puncheston
John Owens, Son, 5, born Morvil
William Owens, Son, 1 and Dina Owens, Dau, 1, both born Llanychlwydog
A Levi Owens married Dec Qtr 180, Haverfordwest, vol 26 page 1027 - on the same page Martha James
Also noticed a Martha and Dina amongst John's children.
All very speculative and based on the accuracy of the birth dates!! I've checked the parish registers for Pontfaen, Morvil and Newport but drawn a blank,
Pob lwc/good luck with the marriage cert.
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died 23 Dec 1948
I also received a very old photo identified on the reverse side of the photo as “the family home in Dinas Cross” (c. early 1920’s) with the phrase/term “Yet Y Bontbren”.
It is a two-story stone house with a chimney at each end of the roof.
My Welsh cousin just sent me an email regarding this house in which she states:
“…The photograph of the cottage we are pretty sure it is Ty-Canol, (meaning middle cottage), at Yet-y-Bontbren.
First, a belated very warm welcome to Rootschat.
1861 Census (ref. RG09 4173 23 2)
Address - Tycanol, Dinas, Cardigan, Pembrokeshire
Henry Edwards, head, marr, 25, Ag lab, born Brawdy
Hannah Edwards, wife, marr, 26, born Newport
Mary Edwards, dau, 6, born Newport
Thomas Edwards, son, 2, Newport
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if those are the correct parents for Mary, there's a likely marriage in Hayscastle 5 April 1855 for Henry Edwards, 21, servant in husbandry, address Llanglophan, father Levi Edwards, deceased & Hannah Phillips, 21, Newhouse, father David Phillips, labourer, he signed, she marked, witnesses James Edwards & William Marl???
Birth reg
Mary Edward sept qtr 1855 Cardigan vol 11b pg 1 mother's maiden name Phillips.
;)
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Here's hoping the marriage cert. can deliver.
I wonder what the source of the birth dates for John (1856) and Mary (1855) is, as provided by Walt69's Welsh cousin?
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Snippets from Welsh Newspapers
Report of a bad accident suffered by John Owen
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3666931/3666934/32/Yetybontbren
John and Mary's son Thomas died in 1902 of TB. His funeral was held at Micpelah [?] officiated by Rev JW Maurice, who the following Sunday preached a funeral sermon for Thomas at Tabor Chapel on the last three verses of the 20th Psalm, a subject chosen by the deceased.
Maggie died in Feb 1908 aged after an illness of 9 days, having complained of trouble in her head. Again buried at Macpelah
Dinah married David O Thomas of Smyth St, Fishguard at St Mary's Church in that town in 1909
JOhn Owen contributed 5s to the Tabor Church organ fund
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I am happily surprised and overwhelmed by the response to my request for assistance in finding my Owen ancestors.
I wish to thank rosie99, osprey, hanes teulu, & Mabel Bagshawe for their multiple responses with invaluable information that they have provided to this point, I am truly thankful.
I am trying to follow-up on the information that I have received to this point.
rosie99 in Reply#1 said: “…Going from these birthdates their mother’s maiden surname appears to be Edwards…”
Walt69 comment : I discussed with my Welsh cousin the possibility that Mary Owen’s maiden name was ‘Edwards’, upon which it was revealed that the name of ‘Edwards’ had been heard years ago as a possibility but with no details to which ‘Edwards’ family they were related.
rosie99 in Reply#2: provided details of possible marriage.
Walt69 comment : I am currently attempting to find out how to obtain John and Mary Owen’s marriage certificate from Wales.
Osprey in Reply#4 said: “…Think you'll need the marriage cert for John & Mary to go further back. It would confirm details for their fathers. Pontvane could be a variant of Pontfaen…”
Walt69 comment : I am currently attempting to find out how to obtain John and Mary Owens marriage certificate from Wales.
hanes teulu in Reply#5 said: “…The marriage cert. is certainly required…
hanes teulu in Reply#8 said: “…Here's hoping the marriage cert. can deliver.
I wonder what the source of the birth dates for John (1856) and Mary (1855) is, as provided by
Walt69's Welsh cousin?...”
Walt69 comment : I have sent an email to my Welsh cousin enquiring the source of the birth dates for John (1856) and Mary (1855).
Mabel Bagshawe in Reply#9 provided fantastic detailed information on the Owen family gleaned from Welsh newspapers.
Walt69 comment : I have followed the link in Reply#9 and am able to access this great resource, Welsh Newspapers Online, but will ask “What are the best search parameters to use in the Advanced Search form in addition to the obvious as ‘Owen?”
Regarding ordering John and Mary Owen’s marriage certificate from Wales, could someone please advise me of the correct government agency from whom I must obtain this document.
Again, thanks for the fantastic assistance that I have received.
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the easiest and cheapest way to order a copy of a cert is to get it from the GRO
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
You have the info you need june qtr 1875 Cardigan vol 11b pg 13
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Mabel Bagshawe in Reply#9 provided fantastic detailed information on the Owen family gleaned from Welsh newspapers.
Walt69 comment : I have followed the link in Reply#9 and am able to access this great resource, Welsh Newspapers Online, but will ask “What are the best search parameters to use in the Advanced Search form in addition to the obvious as ‘Owen?”
Walt - my results also came from the Welsh Newspapers online site. I searched for Yet-y-Bontbren and YetyBontbren. To be honest, with common names like John Owen, searching by an unusual house or village name can be more fruitful, unless you already have a very specific time period to which you can focus the search to. It doesn't help that Dinas Cross is sometimes just referred to as Dinas (which is a common village name) or the variety of spelling of welsh placenames 150 odd years ago
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"Tycanol"
1888 map http://maps.nls.uk/view/102187998
Click on,zoom (+) and find "Tycanol" - just east of "Dinas" and south of "Fron".
The closest property to "Tycanol" is "Bwlch-y-goch". An earlier post has details of a Mary Edwards, age 6, on the 1861 Census at "Tycanol". The property immediately before "Tycanol" on the Census sheet is "Bwlchygoch". The 1861 Census looks promising re. "Mary, born Newport, 1856"
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Osprey, thank you for the link to General Registry Office.
Today I have successfully ordered the marriage certificate of my great-grandparents, John & Mary Owen, which will provide confirmation of their parents and as such, will enable me to reach further back and reveal more of my Welsh ancestry.