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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: wdytya on Thursday 08 March 18 15:30 GMT (UK)
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The attached photo appears to be a wedding? The bride is, I think, Mary Anne Powell nee Lewis 1857-1942 and the groom William Powell 1855-1915. There is a marriage record for the 10th November 1875 at Llantilio Crossenny Monmouthshire, possibly St Teilo Church (this is in the right area as children were born in Skenfith. I will need to access Find my past at the local library to obtain the image of the parish record to confirm. The three adult ladies behind them are their daughters and two sons are in the photo also so cannot be the marriage in 1875. One of the daughters is Agnes 1877-1982 with her hand on her husband, they were married 1904. Can anyone roughly date this photo by the clothes worn and why should the bride and groom IF they married in 1875 have another ceremony , looking at the ages of their grown up children, some 30 years later? Or could it not be a wedding but some other celebration. All suggestions gratefully received.
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Hi
I think it might well be Edwardian - say 1908-1911.
It would be best to put this on the Photo Board though.
Added - could it be a wedding anniversary?
Gadget
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Here is the marriage cert image of 1875
Copyright image removed
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Well, it's not that wedding - the bride's showing as a minor !
Still say it's Edwrdian and you will get more help on the Photo Board.
One of the daughters is Agnes 1877-1982 with her hand on her husband, they were married 1904. Can anyone roughly date this photo by the clothes worn and why should the bride and groom IF they married in 1875 have another ceremony , looking at the ages of their grown up children, some 30 years later? Or could it not be a wedding but some other celebration. All suggestions gratefully received.
The older lady with the bouquet looks quite old- much more than circa 55, so are they grandparents :-\
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Many thanks for the certificate much appreciated. Interesting to note the bride could not write and there is no actual address where they were living.
It looks like the photo was taken outside someone’s home rather than a church for a wedding or church hall for a reception. Maybe in those days wedding anniversaries included the guests with a button hole and the bride a bouquet?? If indeed it is an anniversary. All a bit strange and difficult to understand what the event is.
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Slightly left field... did Mary Ann remarry after William died in 1915?
I'm assuming you have confirmed details of her death in 1942 (still as Mary Ann Powell)
Mar :)
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The year of her death is written down on a list with other family members of BMD dates compiled by a relative many years ago. Having looked on Free BMD there are several recorded deaths in 1942 so hard to pinpoint.
On the back of the photo is written "William Powell and Agnes's mother", Agnes being the one in the photo with her hand on her husbands shoulder. Strange it says Agnes's mother rather than Mary Anne.
I suppose it is possible this is her second marriage and her second husband is also named the same as her first, William Powell. That said it would be quite strange.
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I would say Edwardian too.
Carol
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This is why I wondered, but expect its a dead end?
copyright image removed
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It's not a 1917 photograph. You're looking for an event in the first decade of the 20th century.
Gadget
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I think the second marriage is correct, her father is the same as on the first marriage certificate,Harry Lewis a labourer, Mary Anne signs with an X as again in her first marriage and a witness is William Powell, her son. Thank you so much for finding this second marriage certificate
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Who is the other witness wdytya?
Added - link to 1917 wedding photos for comparison
http://www.fashion-era.com/Weddings/1917_old_wedding_photos.htm#Thomas_Barnes_and_Isimiah_Magee__
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Agree with Gadget....not 1917...the fashion is typically Edwardian. If Daughter Agnes married in 1904 then she doesn't appear to be wearing a wedding ring in the photo.
Carol
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Do not know who the 2nd witness Winifred Powell is, I am guessing that it could be the wife of one of the sons of William Powell and Mary Anne.
Could the clothes they are wearing be older as they could not afford the 1917 look?
Under a magnifying glass I can see something on Agnes's finger so assumed a wedding ring and I am now thinking the young girl on the far right is Agnes's daughter as the age is about right. Before 1910 Agnes was living in Portsmouth but in 1911 she was in Penarth South Wales. Her husband was a soldier then labourer so not much money to pay for the family to travel from Portsmouth but easier from Penarth. All assumptions I know but the 2nd marriage certificate has more clues to lead me to the fact that Mary Anne married twice, lastly in 1917.
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I very much doubt that all these men would be present at a 1917 wedding...there was a war on.
Carol
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I haven't read everything but I must disagree that it's Edwardian.
My first thought was the war years.
The younger men are wearing collar bars. This was a fashion that came about during the war,also some of those large brimmed hats are a late war style. In addition the young lady at the front has a cut-away collar also a late war style. So I would suggest 1916-19.
During the war men did get leave particularly Officers.
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I very much doubt that all these men would be present at a 1917 wedding...there was a war on.
Carol
The 2 men in the photo who would have been eligible to be called up for the war are in "protected occupations" eg working in coal mines, and would have been exempt as far as I know.
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My grandfather, 2 uncles, and 2 great uncles were miners but served in the RWF. They volunteered though.
It's very rare to see a large wedding group in WW1 - You're lucky :)
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I'm going to put the cat amongst them again & say they don't look like miners to me & that's not a miners cottage behind.
They look rather well to do.
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What was he occupation of Mary Ann's second husband?
Also, were any of the family 'better off' than they were? They might have been posed outside their house.
Gadget
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Second spouse (Henry James Bailey born approx. 1861) is located with his wife in Van Road Caerphilly at the time of the last census. He is listed as a wood surveyor at this time.
In 1913 there is a death registered in Pontypridd district for his wife Martha.
At the time of his marriage on 8th August 1917, he is listed as a sawyer, place of residence is Caerphilly.
Wdytya's earlier post, says he has a death year for Mary Ann of 1842 recorded in family notes - there is a death registered in Chepstow for a Mary A Bailey aged 84; this would fit with a birth year of 1857 and an age of second marriage in 1917 of 60.
They are marrying in the parish church at Machen, so this is only three miles from her residence in Bedwas (with her first husband) at the time of the last census.
The photo doesn't look like it is directly outside Machen church, but maybe very near :) so need a terraced house with a bay window and matching railings !!
Mar
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Having done some further online research I found two items of information that clarifies some of the questions about where the wedding breakfast took place and also the question that the house was too grand for a miners family. The first is a newspaper report of the wedding which states ....."At the wedding of Mrs Mary Ann Powell with Mr James Bailey both of whom are 60 years of age, in Lower Machen Church, the bride was given away by her son Mr William Powell and the bridesmaid was her grand daughter Miss W Powell. The wedding breakfast was provided at the home of her son in Pengam Garden Village."
PENGAM GARDEN VILLAGE. < THE WORKERS' PARADISE. Before the war, when the housing question was such an urgent one in South Wales, a large Garden Village scheme was started at Pengam, in the centre of the Rhymney Valley. The scheme is now nearing completion over 400 houses are already finished, and another 100 will be completed very shortly. It is one of the largest schemes attempted in South Wales, or, in fact, in the country. It is situated on a slight eminence near Pengam and Blackwood railway stations. The position is an ideal one it gives a commanding and unobstructed view of the surrounding country, is well drained, and has a good water supply. The houses are built in various designs and sizes. and a hot and cold water service. Gas is laid on to each house, and everything done to make the houses convenient and up-to-date also, what is very important, a good stretch of ground is provided at the rear, and a small flower garden plot in the front of each house. It is un- doubtedly one of the cleanest and best laid out villages in the country. Although situated in the centre of a big industrial area, and; therefore near all the industries where the tenants might be em- ployed, yet it is so placed that no smoke or grime from the works gets near it. Near to the village is the new Britannia Colliery of the Powell Duffryn Company one of the largest and up-to-date pits in South Wales. There is no need for those engaged in the mining industry to live in long, dingy and monotonous streets when they can now be housed in dwellings which are models in design and accommodation, and in a district where everything is done that can be done to make their lives happy and pleasant. The rents of the houses vary from 6 /6 to 8 /6 per week. In addition to the erection of the houses, a new school for 600 children has just been erected in the centre of the village by the Monmouthshire County Council, and will be opened in two or three weeks' time. Near the school, also in the centre of the village, is a shopping centre where a number of shops are nearing completion. These are now for sale, or will be let to suitable tenants. We understand that applications are now being received from workmen and others desirous of living in the village. Those who succeed in obtaining a house will be fortunate. From a health point of view there is certainly no better spot in South Wales. The scheme is an object lesson to housing reformers, and marks a big step forward in the laying out of mining villages. Those desirous of renting or purchasing a house or shop should apply to the Secretary, Mr. J. Edwards, Britannia Villa, Pengam; or Messrs. Welsh Garden Cities, Ltd:, 3, Dumfries Place, Cardiff.
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Well done wdytya !!!!!
I wonder if any other images exist of Garden Village Pengam
Mar :)