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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Dublingal on Friday 09 March 18 19:45 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone know if there are records of the licenses issued to car owners (horse drawn likely) in the late 1800's early 1900's in Dublin . My Grandmothers father and grandfather were car owners or the northside.
Many thanks!
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I have a list that have names from the mid 1800s and some from as late as 1930s.
If you give me the name I will see if they are listed.
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Hi
This is a topic of interest to me.My great grandfather was a car owner.I have not come across licence records.One source you might look at is the petty court sessions records available on findmypast.I have come across a couple a records there one of which gives his licence number so maybe there are licence records available somewhere.
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Yes they are online
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/IrishMotorDirectory1914.htm
but I think RAC have earlier ones...
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Hi Hallmark
The records your gave a link to are for motorised vechicles.There were very few motor cars in Dublin
in the early 1900s.The terms "car owners and car drivers" usually refer to drivers of horse drawn hackney cabs.The RAC have no records for the licencing of these vechicles.
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Hi Hallmark
The records your gave a link to are for motorised vechicles.There were very few motor cars in Dublin
in the early 1900s.The terms "car owners and car drivers" usually refer to drivers of horse drawn hackney cabs.The RAC have no records for the licencing of these vechicles.
Well there are earlier ones somewhere then!!
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Hi
As I said I have I have not been able to find the records. I have a couple of court records one of which dates from 1890.The RAC was founded in 1897 so the question remains are the licence records held somewhere?.I have contacted various organisations such as the RAC and Dublin City Council but so far have had no luck in finding them
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Just a very small example of a List of a few hundred I have.
Barry.. 104 Townsend St.. 1850
William Barry 5-6 Basin view off Basin lane ..1890
James Bell,36 Boyne St ..1890
Patrick Brierty, 8 May lane..1898
Edward Byrne, Irishtown Rd..1877-1901
Mrs Byrne,17 Cuffe St..1904
T. Connor, 17 Buckingham St..1934
P. Corrigan, Camden St ..1895-1901
J. Doyle,4 Bow Lane..1901.
above are just a small portion of 'cab' owner's, included on the list I have, there are large numbers of coach makers from Dublin (some from other counties) dating back to as early as 1798.
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Hi
As I said I have I have not been able to find the records. I have a couple of court records one of which dates from 1890.The RAC was founded in 1897 so the question remains are the licence records held somewhere?.I have contacted various organisations such as the RAC and Dublin City Council but so far have had no luck in finding them
So it is not car owners you are looking for, as per title of thread....
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Hi grizzly1,
I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread but I'm hoping you may be able to help me. There are two stories that my cousins have told me. One is that someone in the family ran a jaunting car business (possibly near the coast outside north dublin) and the second is that someone in the family had a motor car in the early 1900s. It's possible that both stories refer to the same person or that one person had a horse and cart whilst the other had a car. It's also possible that I have misheard or misunderstood ;D Anyway I wonder if you would be able to have a look for me. The most likely names could be Joseph Cowan, Martin Delaney, Joseph Byrne or James Gaffney. It could also be one of my many Sinnott, Conlon or Duffy ancestors. As you can see I really am flailing about in the dark and would be grateful if you could have a look for me.
Pet50ite
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Hi
I think Hallmark is misunderstanding what the term car means.The word car can refer to HORSE drawn vechicles. Mototorised cars in the modern sense only began to arrive in Ireland in the early 1900s But I have seen records where the occupation for some of my ancestors is refeared to as "car owner"or "car man" as early as I870.
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Hi grizzly1,
I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread but I'm hoping you may be able to help me. There are two stories that my cousins have told me. One is that someone in the family ran a jaunting car business (possibly near the coast outside north dublin) and the second is that someone in the family had a motor car in the early 1900s. It's possible that both stories refer to the same person or that one person had a horse and cart whilst the other had a car. It's also possible that I have misheard or misunderstood ;D Anyway I wonder if you would be able to have a look for me. The most likely names could be Joseph Cowan, Martin Delaney, Joseph Byrne or James Gaffney. It could also be one of my many Sinnott, Conlon or Duffy ancestors. As you can see I really am flailing about in the dark and would be grateful if you could have a look for me.
Pet50ite
I do see a Patrick Sinnott of Blessington Court listed in 1890 (Livery Commission,Hunting, Training establishment) apart from that there is no mention of other's, basically I believe this liist I have was made up by a person who took the time to record the various Coachmaker's-'Car' owner's that may have been mentioned on various public documents such as the newspaper's etc over a period of time dating back as far as 1700s...as can imagine it would not be a complete list of all those who made a living from the 'Car's'/Jarveys etc.
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Thank you grizzly1 for looking. At the weekend I will spend a bit of time seeing if there is any coonection between this Patrick Sinnott and my family. I really appreciate that you took the time to look for me.
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Patrick Sinnott and Mary Nevin
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lrd/
he was a horse dealer
49 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02593/1957898.pdf
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Thank you Dathai. At a glance they don't appear to be connected to my lot. I think I have looked at that family before and ruled them out. I will double check again tomorrow. Thanks again for the links.
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Hi Daithai
I have looked at Patrick Sinnott. All of the birth records for his children I can find and all give his occupation as horse dealer. I have looked at couple of the other surnames pol50ite gave and there a number of possibillities on the 1901 census.But I would like to get back to the original post regarding licencing records.In my opinion they would have been issued by local authorities such as Dublin Corporation.I d'ont know what information was included on these records but it might not be significant .It may be better to look for information from other sources such as court records newspapers etc.
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Hello Grizzly1. Could I ask you to check your list for my GGGF? He is mentioned as George Smyth car owner on my GGF William Smyth's marraige certificate in 1876. William Smyth his son lists his address as 62 UPr Dominick Street but I dont think this was the family home. I assume George was based in Dublin though. Many many thanks.
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Hello Grizzly1. Could I ask you to check your list for my GGGF? He is mentioned as George Smyth car owner on my GGF William Smyth's marraige certificate in 1876. William Smyth his son lists his address as 62 UPr Dominick Street but I dont think this was the family home. I assume George was based in Dublin though. Many many thanks.
Hi, I found 3 Smith's/Smyths listed from various year's.
1820.. James Smith 81 Townsend St, listed as Horse shoer & Farrier.
1850..John Smyth, 25 Princes St North (Car Owner)
1939..P, Smith, 128 North King St.
Hope you can tie the names listed into your search .
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Many thanks for your prompt response and for taking the trouble to look for me. Had a big breakthrough yesterday so following that up today but will keep John Smyth 25 Princes St North 1850 on my radar. i have discovered that George Smyths son James was a hackney driver in 1886 living at Green Street so it is looking promising. :) :)
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Many of those on the list I have are also listed as 'coachmaker's', I think it's fair to assume that those who made the coaches/cab's may also have 'rented/leased' them out.
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Apologies all for not returning to the original thread i started, I had a baby at the same time...and lost any time to get further into anything!! Ihave had a read through of other replies so thank you.
My relatives lived on Hill Street Dublin and were Gormans and Hanlons. in fact Mary Hanlon was compensated for one of her cabs being used as a barricade in 1922! The records are online.
The fathers are listed as car owners on marriage records etc or carmen...i think as far back as the 1880's up until at least 1922....
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Grizzly I
You are correct in believing that the City Authorities regulated Carmen and Carts. These regulations as detailed in the Calendar of Ancient Records of Dublin will be found referenced in the CD entitled Dublin 1169-1841 A Source Work , a copy of which I lodged with the TCD Library.
Felixquaxer
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Dublingal
The edition of the Irish Times for 22nd February 1886 Page 5 records that John Gorman of Hill Street was involved in a serious road accident.
That of the 23rd December 1893 in an advert. on Page 8 records the death of Anthony Smith (car owner formerly of No.4 Green Street ) on the 26th November 1893.
For the period 1859-1901 there are no references to the persons you mention in Blessin gton Court or Upper Dominick St. in that newspaper.
felixquaxer
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Thanks a million felixquaxer. John Gorman was my 4th great grandfather! I must have a look at that. He lived until 1916 himself. And his wife until 1937 and they had cars up until then as far as I can find. The Hanlon association with cars ended around 1918 when John hanlon son in law to John Gorman died.
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Hi
This is a topic of interest to me.My great grandfather was a car owner.I have not come across licence records.One source you might look at is the petty court sessions records available on findmypast.I have come across a couple a records there one of which gives his licence number so maybe there are licence records available somewhere.
Hi, would you be so kind as to look and see if you have a Walter Kelly, address probably South Cumberland Street or Bishop Street. Thanks
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Dear Sir,
I would appreciate an explanation on differences between coach maker, car owner, and cabman or carman?
The reason I asked is that on marriage of my great great grandfather Mathew Deegan--he stated that he is a coach maker and that his father Mathew Deegan is car owner.
On their death entries, both were down as a cabman in 1873 and 1875.
A widow, Rose Deegan, was down as a widow of carman in 1880.
All were in Dublin.
Could you please look up to ascertain if Mathew Deegan is indeed a coachmaker or not and that his father Mathew is indeed a car owner?
Many thanks,
Tees
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Mathew Deegan and Eliza Burns 1871
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11353/8167692.pdf
daughter Mary Anne 1873
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03211/2177690.pdf
the deaths for the 2 Mathew's are not yet viewable
Death of Rose informant was Elizabeth Cowley nee Mc Donnell/McDonald of 45 Bishop St
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06460/4857539.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Bishop_Street/1342075/
her husband Walter died 1910 he was a Coachmaker
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05437/4520734.pdf
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Hello Dathai
Many thanks for shedding a light on Eliza Cowley and how she knows Rose is a widow of cat man!
As to the death entries, they are on other topic here: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=818343.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=818343.0)
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi again,
Could you see if there are more than two Matthew Deegans in this field?
I am trying to sort out which Mathew Deegan is ours.
Thank you in advance for your help,
Tees