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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: bigbazza on Wednesday 14 March 18 16:32 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone help me to date this photograph and suggest the ages of the ladies in the picture?
Many thanks,
Baz.
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Hi Baz...Long time no see...Rough guess at 14, 12 & 16 possibly 1930s/40s
I gave them a clean for you.
Carol
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Nice tidy there, Carol :)
I'd think mid 1930s and ages approx the same as Carol gave. When was Leticia born?
Gadget
(I've had a quick look in the Irish records but can't find birth reg)
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Was Letitia born in 1911, MMN Sproule?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01502/1609920.pdf #336
Kiltaglassan
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Was Letitia born in 1911, MMN Sproule?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01502/1609920.pdf #336
Kiltaglassan
I saw that earlier but thought it wasn't the right location :-\
Added - Tyrone not Fermanagh - maybe they moved.
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There are no online indexes for Northern Ireland births after 1921 so if age and date estimates are in the right period then it's likely you won't find her birth indexed online (Family Search has most recent ones up to 1921 while other sites such as GRONI and Irish Genealogy only show those more than 100 years old).
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Hi Carol & Gadget,
Thank's for cleaning the photo Carol. Brilliant work as usual.
This photo was sent to my grandfather many decades ago and I have often pondered over it, wondering who the girls were, until last month!
I made contact with a second cousin in Northern Ireland who told me that Leticia Hamilton, her grandmother was the girl in the middle of the picture. She also told me that her mother was born in 1924. Therefore, I was hoping that the photo was dated in the early 1920's and that the girls looked like they were in their late teens.
My cousin couldn't provide any information on dates but did say that Leticia married James Martin and that her mother's name was Leticia Martin who died in 2015 age 91.
Tragically, the other girls in the picture died in their twenties, both having married. Their husbands names were, Noble and Robb.
I have searched the Irish records but without success. all the best, Baz.
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The marriages for the girls might be online- GRONI have index of N.I. marriages in their database over 75 years old (c March 1943). I took a quick look 1937-1943 but couldn't see any Hamilton marriages with spouse Noble or Robb.
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
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If it's who you think it is, they would be available online, so very strange that they're not.
Is there anyone else that they could be, Bazza? Do you know who sent it to your grandfather?
Gadget
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They could have been married after March 1943.
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But if the youngest one had a child in 1924, the post 1943 marriages would seem a bit late. Also, they were supposed to have died in their 20s so, if it is them, they would have been dead by 1943.
Leticia Hamilton, her grandmother was the girl in the middle of the picture. She also told me that her mother was born in 1924. Therefore, I was hoping that the photo was dated in the early 1920's and that the girls looked like they were in their late teens.
My cousin couldn't provide any information on dates but did say that Leticia married James Martin and that her mother's name was Leticia Martin who died in 2015 age 91.
Tragically, the other girls in the picture died in their twenties, both having married. Their husbands names were, Noble and Robb.
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If Leticia Martin born 1924 and died in 2015 aged 91years and she is the middle girl, then if she was 14 in the photo, that dates the photo to around 1936, if I understand you correctly.
Carol
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I was going by that also, Treetotal.
Have now checked GRONI's database for marriages 1918-1924, in addition to the earlier 1936-1943 search and these are only results between a Hamilton and Robb/Noble/Martin-
William Hamilton m.(5 June 1919 Strabane district) ? Robb
Minnie Hamilton m.(1 June 1922 Fermanagh district) Matthew Robb
Agnes Hamilton m.(10 July 1924 Belfast) William Martin
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No, if you read what Bazz says, it was her daughter who died in 2015 - born 1924.
Leticia Hamilton, her (Bazz's cousin) grandmother was the girl in the middle of the picture. She also told me that her mother was born in 1924....... My cousin couldn't provide any information on dates but did say that Leticia married James Martin and that her (the cousin) mother's name was Leticia Martin who died in 2015 age 91.
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This is how I read it:
Leticia =James Martin
I
Leticia Martin b. 1924 d 2015
I
cousin
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another relevant piece from Bazz:
a second cousin in Northern Ireland who told me that Leticia Hamilton, her grandmother was the girl in the middle of the picture. She also told me that her mother was born in 1924. Therefore, I was hoping that the photo was dated in the early 1920's and that the girls looked like they were in their late teens.
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My point is that the date of the photo and age of the middle girl fits with Leticia Martin, his cousin's Mother rather than Leticia Hamilton.
Carol
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Yes - that would fit the info that Bazza has.
We need to know if the cousin's mother had two sisters - but surely the cousin would know what her own mother looked like ???
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Yes I agree....but the photo fits children born in the 1920s?
Carol
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Yes I agree....but the photo fits children born in the 1920s?
Carol
Yep and no James Martin - Leticia Hamilton marriage found.
I've had wrong info from cousin's before now. Maybe Bazz could check back with cousin.
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Possibly these could be the sisters?
Lily Hamilton m.(2 Jan.1917 Fermanagh) ? Noble
Catherine Hamilton m.(24 Apr.1917 Fermanagh Michael Martin
Minnie Hamilton m.(1 June 1922 Fermanagh district) Matthew Robb
Is this the family? Minnie born c1902 and sister Catherine born c1874:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Ballydoolagh/Derryhillagh/515331
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That might mean that the oldest one married a Martin. Maybe it was the one who died in 2015 (next generation) who married James Martin :-\
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Lily Hamilton m.(2 Jan.1917 Fermanagh) ? Noble
John Noble married Lily Hamilton, age 20, daughter of Archibald-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09736/5532608.pdf
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Tirmacspird/Cruntully/520895
Lily = Elizabeth, Minnie = Mary Jane
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The three daughters in 1901 with parents- surname transcribed as Hamitton ::)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Tirmacspird/Cruntully/1354862
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Getting late!
Was transferring names to pic but the pic is next generation
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Doesn't help with dating but Elizabeth Hamilton born 1895-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1895/1836378a.pdf
Probate of the Will of Archibald Hamilton late of Cruntully, Co. Fermanagh, Farmer, who died 7 February 1921 granted at Armagh 18 March 1921 to Elizabeth Hamilton, the widow. Effects: £148 5s 0d.
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Well, the girls look in their early to mid-teens and there's no way that this was taken late 1910s. So it must be the next generation but who was their mother?
PS - and who were the girls?
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Hi everyone,
Thank you so much for all your sterling work, its very much appreciated. You have found the Hamilton's in the censuses in Tirmacspird, Lack, Co. Fermanagh which is where my grandfather and his ancestors came from.
They say they had 3 children, all of whom were alive in 1911. Latitia=Leticia, Mary Jane=Minnie and Elizabeth=Lily.
It looks like Minnie married Matthew Robb and Lily married John Noble. In fact I found the civil marriage for Lily and John yesterday on Find my Past and it states they married at Colaghty Church, Lack which is where most of my grandfather's relatives were baptized, married and buried! Also, Lily's residence was the same as that on the censuses.
The photo may be deceptive. It looks to me like it was posed in a studio. Could they have been encouraged into a certain look, hairstyle and dress by the photographer and that the photo was in fact taken in the 1910's? If the ages in the censuses are correct then Leticia in the middle is the eldest sister and I always did think she looked a bit sultry!
My second cousin Caroline is not online and I correspond by telephone and letter. I can only reiterate her words when she told me she had seen the photo. "These are the Hamilton girls and that's my grandmother in the middle. I don't know the names of the other sisters but they married men named Noble and Robb....".
My grandfather's sister Jane, who was widowed in 1921, went on to marry William Martin, the brother of James Martin who married Leticia Hamilton. So it is most likely that she sent the photo to my grandfather in England as I know they corresponded.
All the best and thanks once again to everyone for your help,
Baz.
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Sorry to burst your bubble Baz but I don't think this is a 1910 image...if you google 1910 images, you will see the Edwardian era clothing and hairstyles are very different from the girls in your photo. Can you post the back if you have it please, is it a postcard.
Carol
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This is likely Letitia's birth (1889)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02485/1922173.pdf
Mary Jane was born 1892-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02336/1873974.pdf
Elizabeth born 1895 (link to registration posted earlier).
I can't see any way the photo could be these three sisters.
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The photograph is no earlier than the 1920s. at a push. I've dated it as mid-30s and Carol has dated it 30s-40s.
We believe the girl in the middle is possibly your cousin's mother rather than grandmother. Did your cousin have any aunts?
Gadget
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Definitely not my cousins mother as she sent me two pictures of her at the time of her marriage in about 1945. Nothing like the girl in the middle of the picture. I dont know if my cousin had any aunts and I haven't been able to contact her this week .
The back of the photo is a blank postcard. Down the middle is an elongated wreath with the word JEROME in descending letters. There is a crown at the top of the wreath. I will scan it at the w/e and post it on here if you think it will serve a purpose.
I've got child minding duties this afternoon and evening so I won't be able to get back on this until the w/e.
Cheers, Baz.
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Hi everyone,
I thought you'd like to know that I googled "Jerome Studio's" to check on their history. It turns out that they were formed in an amalgamation between Colonel Bertram Gale's photographic studio's and Albert H. Garrett's company who fitted out the new photographic studio's under the name Jerome Limited in 1928. Therefore, my photo of the three girls couldn't have been produced before then, so I concede!
I still haven't been able to make contact with Caroline so I can't tell you what her reaction will be when I give her the news that it isn't her grandmother in the picture, after all.
Keep smiling :)
Baz.
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Hi Baz...Thanks for the update...it is very difficult when you have been told information about a photo that later is proved incorrect and this is very common in family history and is something that most of us can relate to that too :-\
Carol
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If it makes you feel any better my own mother once identified me in a photo as small child in Easter outfit sitting on chair that had been my father's at that age in front of my grandmother's porch.
A few years later my dad's cousin asked why I had a picture of her daughter (she also had the complete set of pictures taken that day as well as the negatives from her camera) :o I used to get her daughter's hand-me-downs and apparently Easter picture at my grandmother's was a family tradition ;D
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Think we've all have mixups. I had one sent to me that was supposed to be an 1860s photo of 3xgrt grandmother. I was a bit cautious about it as it was in such good condition. I showed it to Prue who confirmed that the clothing and pose was 1860s but probably a later reprint. I was doubtful about it as the person who sent it me had no further info about where it had come from, etc.
Then I was sent a photo of the lady's granddaughter - the features and hands were identical. I iwas then able to identify it to be a photo taken by the granddaughter's daughter who was a trained photographer and had set it up as a test piece!
Now we need to find out who the thee girls were.
Gadget
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Thanks Carol and Aghadowey for cheering me up! I don't know how to tell you this - I've got another photo! :o I'll post it tomorrow....
Baz.
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Great....I'll look forward to that...this will make you smile...
Some time ago...a lady posted a Carte de Visite photo on here looking for a date for her Great, Great Grandma's photo...it was a photo of a young Queen Victoria and the lady had a hard time getting to grips with why her ancestors would have a photo of the Queen in a collection of family photos, but people did swap and collect photos. ;D ;D
Carol
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Hi everyone,
My second cousin Caroline identified her grandfather, James Martin [far right]. James married Leticia Hamilton in 1908 when she was 19 and he was 36. This means that James was born in 1872 and the photo was taken no later than 1880 I should think. The other children in the photo are James' brothers and sister, Andrew, William and Elizabeth according to Caroline.
The reverse of the photo is a post card with "for correspondence" on the left and "addressee only" on the right. Can you say if Caroline is right, or wrong yet again? How old are the children and can the flower in the lapels be identified? [hope they're not daff's]. :-\
Baz.
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Does it have a
horizontal line between address and for correspondence?
Added -meant vertical! :-X
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It has a centralized T 1.5cm x 1.5cm. Gadget.
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If it has what's called a divided back, it was 1902 or later:
https://www.oldpostcards4sale.co.uk/pages/history-of-postcards-in-the-uk-potted-version
Wait for Carol to confirm - she's a whizz and PCs :)
Oh dear, Baz :-\
Gadget
Sorry I'm having trouble with my typing - !
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Oh Baz...Sorry but this isn't who you think...as Gadget has already poited out...the divided back postcard was first introduced in the UK in 1902 and 1907 in America...sorry to be the bearer of bad news again but this is the next generation.
Carol
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Not too sure but it could be 1920s or even 1930s going by their clothes.
Gadget
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Could it be a reprint of an older photo Carol? Does anyone have an opinion on the style & era of the children's clothing and the type of flower in the lapels?
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Think we cross posted, Baz
Not too sure but it could be 1920s or even 1930s going by their clothes.
Gadget
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definitely not 1880s clothing.
Meant to add this to previous post :-X
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Could it be a reprint of an older photo Carol? Does anyone have an opinion on the style & era of the children's clothing and the type of flower in the lapels?
I'm afraid not...the clothing is much later...I would say 20s too
Carol
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Hi,
I’m descended from the sisters’ aunt Ellen Hamilton, sister of their father Archibald Hamilton. I have certain information on the family and I would be happy to share.
Best wishes,
John
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Hi John and welcome to RootsChat, you need to remove your email address as it is against RootsChat privacy policy. You can contact Baz by private message when you have made one more post. You do this by clicking on the text icon below his name on the left.
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Many thanks for confirming the private message function. Are you related to the Hamilton family as well?
Best wishes,
John
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No John, I restore and date photos on here.
Carol
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Without reading anything I looked at the pic and thought 1950's ??? ??? ???
Shows that I don't know what I'm talking about ;D ;D ;D
Anyway lovely pic so I gave it a bit of colour in between waiting for my
glue to dry on something I'm building
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Lovely job Tomkin. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
Baz.