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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: davidgp on Wednesday 14 March 18 23:14 GMT (UK)
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This is a seaman's entry from a crew list - I need to know the previous ship he served on. It's the second line and should be a ship's name followed by a port of registration. I've include one line above as a small sample of the handwriting. Sadly there are no more examples in the list.
I've tried some obvious guesses against the online register of shipping but have got nowhere. The scan is as good as it gets from this source. Any suggestions please?
David
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I see Binz....Condor, Ecuador?
Carol
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Hi Carol
Yes, that's what I read - Binz would be Binz on Rügen, Germany which makes sense - Condor registered in Ecuador I can't find - lots of ships called Condor but none registered in 1880 in Ecuador. Still think you're right!
David
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No luck - SS Condor ........... earliest one I found was 1893 (captured and sunk by Germany 1914) ::)
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
The 1880 Mercantile List (page 224) has the following registered
Condor, Falmouth
Condor, Greenock
Condor, Halifax NS
Condor, London
Condor, Pictou NS
Condor, Portsmouth
Condor, St John NB
Condor, St John NFL
Condor, Yarmouth
- can't tie any to Ecuador
David
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I'm not 100% convinced about Condor.
The "n" is not like the one in Binz - there's something after it.
To begin with, I thought it might be an "m", making the name Camdor, but now I think it looks more like "ne".
Also, when you look at the "or" on the end of Ecuador (which looks like it has an "x" in the middle, but what the heck... ???), the "o" is joined differently.
I think the second letter of the ship's name could be an "a".
This would result in something like Canedor.
The place name "Canedo" exists in Portugal and Switzerland (but without the "r" on the end...).
I don't know where to start looking for ships' names - Auntie Goggle couldn't help me on this one...
Where do you good people find info on ships? :)
Karen
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I don't know where to start looking for ships' names
Try the CLIP databases ...
http://www.crewlist.org.uk
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I don't know where to start looking for ships' names
Try the CLIP databases ...
http://www.crewlist.org.uk
That looks like a very interesting website, ta very much!
I'll have a play on there later. :)
Karen
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Hi Karen
Thanks for your thoughts - as I post Bookbox has answered where to find ship names. I've been checking all my guesses at:
http://www.crewlist.org.uk/#Data
Sadly Canedo is not a recognised name in that database.
I've just tried finding ships registered in Ecuador to try the search from the other direction but no joy there either.
David
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Ecuador, as a country, seems unlikely to be a Port of Registry. I wonder if it is a mis-spelling of Exeter, bearing in mind that crew lists were written up all over the world, perhaps by people unfamiliar with the names of some of the smaller ports in other countries.
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Exeter was one of my likely candidates as this seaman was previously with the 'Gertrude' registered in Exeter - the handwriting does seem to contain a letter 'x' in the middle but seemed too long and elaborate to be a six letter word!
I could look for ships beginning 'C' registered in Exeter and see what can be found.
David
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When enlarged it looks like Excader and, when spoken (with a soft c), it sounds very like a West Country person might pronounce Exeter
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
There's a very clearly written Exeter on the preceding page as this is the half-yearly agreement for 'Gertrude' registered in Exeter. So many hands contribute to this one document it's hard to find a sample for comparison though the line above 'Condor' is written by the same person.
The seaman in question was of German origin but know to speak English and probably some Welsh - it's probable he spoke with a Devonian burr as his wife was from Tiverton!
David
PS. I've had enough trouble with his town of origin as this is recorded either as Benz, Beng or Binz Germany which covers a whole host of possibilities.
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Good work everybody!
With "Exeter" in my head, I think I can see Exader in the snippet... It looks more like an open "a" than a "c". Fits with Gadget's West Country-accent comment, too! :)
Doesn't help with the ship's name, though, I'm afraid...
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Having trawled (pun intended) through the ship's lists the only one I can come up with is
Carmel of Exeter
any chance?
Or am I making the handwriting fit the facts as Carmel was schooner of similar weight to the Gertrude (also registered in Exeter) to which this half-yearly agreement relates.
David
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Could it be a ship called the 'Commodore' with unique ;D phonetic spelling as in 'Exeter' ???
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Hi
There's a COMMERCE of Exeter but no Comodor - see where you are coming from with that!
David
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I found this
http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum/20945
COMMODORE Exeter, 1836, Sail Appropriation Books, RSS
Exeter MNL, 1857
Exeter, Sail, 89 tons MNL, 1860
[No port shown], Casualty: foundered, 5/11/1861 RCUS, 1874, pp 648-649, row 1841
What year is your crew's list?
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ooh that got me excited - till I saw the dates. Sadly my sailor was on C----, E---- in 1880.
David
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I take it that the half yearly agreement you are referring to is for the vessel GERTRUDE Official number 60305 from the on line 1881 crew agreement database at MHA Newfoundland.
https://www.mun.ca/mha/1881/onview.php?Record_ID=163424&%20CrewListPage=2&page=2
I have included a link so that rootschatters can compare the writting in the complete Crew Agreement. For my money the ship is COMMERCE official number 11060, registered in Exeter. The problem is it seems all of her Crew Agreements have been lost or destroyed, so there is no way I can prove it was this vessel.
If no one comes up with an answer, I suggest you e mail MHA asking if they could in any way enhance the original Crew Agreement 1880 for GERTRUDE. They are very good at MHA and can maybe give you a definitive answer to your question.
It may also be worthwhile getting in touch with
http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/history/research/centres/maritime/
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@seeweed
many thanks for your suggestions and the link to the original agreement.
David