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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: cupcake on Thursday 15 March 18 14:18 GMT (UK)
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Back in 2003 I visited the church, from Scotland, to have my mother's ashes put with her Granparents James Julian KIDMAN.
Doing some family research I discovered James's father George KIDMAN died 29th. August 1882 and is buried in Edworth Churchyard and would like to know if his inscription could be on the reverse of James's headstone.
Any help will be very much appreciated
cupcake
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You might have already seen this but a newspaper item refers to James being buried in the family grave, so it's a possibility.
Biggleswade Chronicle
09 Apr 1920
Dunton
Death of Mr J. J. Kidman
We regret to record the death of Mr. James Julian Kidman, formerly of Newton Grove Farm, Dunton, which took place at Castle Camps, Suffolk, on Tuesday, at the age of 72 years, and after an illness of about a year's duration. Deceased was born at Millow, Dunton, and resided in the parish for about 70 years, holding the office of Churchwarden, Chairman of the Parish Council, member of the Rural District Council, and Board of Guardians. Of his family, Mr. Hugh Kidman, Rose Villa, Sutton, Mr. P. Kidman, Sunderland, and Mrs. Carter, Eyeworth, remain in this district, and for them and other members of the family, much sympathy is felt. The remains are being brought to Edworth, Beds. To-day (Friday) for interment in the family grave in the Churchyard.
Biggleswade Chronicle
08 Aug 1930
Biggleswade
Death of Mrs Kidman
Her many friends in Biggleswade and district will learn with regret of the death of Mrs. Louise Kidman, who passed away at Collingham, Newark, on Tuesday. The deceased, who had attained the great age of 83 years, was the widow of the late Mr. J. J. Kidman, of Newton, Dunton. Her husband pre-deceased her by ten years. Deep sympathy is expressed with the family of four sons and four daughters in their bereavement. The members of the family are: Mr H. Kidman, of Clapham, Bedford; Mr P. C. Kidman, of Biggleswade; Mr J. Kidman, of Heybridge, Essex; Mr R. Kidman, of Bedford Park, London; Mrs Carter, of Offley, Hitchin; Mrs Thompson, of Sunderland Farm, Biggleswade; Mrs Tice, of Feltham, Middlesex; and Mrs Day, of Collingham, Newark. The funeral will take place at Edworth Church at 2.30 p.m. to-day (Friday).
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You might have already seen this but a newspaper item refers to James being buried in the family grave, so it's a possibility.
Biggleswade Chronicle
09 Apr 1920
Dunton
Death of Mr J. J. Kidman
We regret to record the death of Mr. James Julian Kidman, formerly of Newton Grove Farm, Dunton, which took place at Castle Camps, Suffolk, on Tuesday, at the age of 72 years, and after an illness of about a year's duration. Deceased was born at Millow, Dunton, and resided in the parish for about 70 years, holding the office of Churchwarden, Chairman of the Parish Council, member of the Rural District Council, and Board of Guardians. Of his family, Mr. Hugh Kidman, Rose Villa, Sutton, Mr. P. Kidman, Sunderland, and Mrs. Carter, Eyeworth, remain in this district, and for them and other members of the family, much sympathy is felt. The remains are being brought to Edworth, Beds. To-day (Friday) for interment in the family grave in the Churchyard.
Biggleswade Chronicle
08 Aug 1930
Biggleswade
Death of Mrs Kidman
Her many friends in Biggleswade and district will learn with regret of the death of Mrs. Louise Kidman, who passed away at Collingham, Newark, on Tuesday. The deceased, who had attained the great age of 83 years, was the widow of the late Mr. J. J. Kidman, of Newton, Dunton. Her husband pre-deceased her by ten years. Deep sympathy is expressed with the family of four sons and four daughters in their bereavement. The members of the family are: Mr H. Kidman, of Clapham, Bedford; Mr P. C. Kidman, of Biggleswade; Mr J. Kidman, of Heybridge, Essex; Mr R. Kidman, of Bedford Park, London; Mrs Carter, of Offley, Hitchin; Mrs Thompson, of Sunderland Farm, Biggleswade; Mrs Tice, of Feltham, Middlesex; and Mrs Day, of Collingham, Newark. The funeral will take place at Edworth Church at 2.30 p.m. to-day (Friday).
Thank you so much for the Biggleswade Chronicle newspaper I hadn't seen them.
I regret not looking on the reverse of the headstone but, it was an emotional time having brought my mother's ashes from Scotland to be with her family.
I would like to think that James Julian KIDMAN's father (George KIDMAN) is on the reverse of the headstone.From another photograph I took that day - there is an inscription - but can't make it out. It's on the left hand corner of photo
Thank you once again.
cupcake
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The Beds FHS parish CD for Edworth does have the memorial inscriptions for St George, with a bit of luck someone who has access to the CD may see your post and check it for you. I do have a lot of the Beds FHS CDs, but not that one unfortunately.
Depending on how badly you want to see the inscription you could order the CD, it's only £10.
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The Beds FHS parish CD for Edworth does have the memorial inscriptions for St George, with a bit of luck someone who has access to the CD may see your post and check it for you. I do have a lot of the Beds FHS CDs, but not that one unfortunately.
Depending on how badly you want to see the inscription you could order the CD, it's only £10.
I will wait and see if any one has access to the CD and check it for me. If not, will contact the Beds FHS.
Thank you once again for your time searching for me. Very much appreciated.
cupcake
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The next Beds FHS meeting is on Friday 20th April which I will be attending... I will look in the Monumental Inscriptions hard copies file for Edworth (recorder 1997) to see if any entries for Kidman family.
If you use FaceBook may I point you to the Beds FHS facebook page where could ask for assistance
Cheers John
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The next Beds FHS meeting is on Friday 20th April which I will be attending... I will look in the Monumental Inscriptions hard copies file for Edworth (recorder 1997) to see if any entries for Kidman family.
If you use FaceBook may I point you to the Beds FHS facebook page where could ask for assistance
Cheers John
I went onto the Beds FHS this morning and sent them a message regarding the headstone inscription. Will wait and see if they get back to me. If they don't, I would appreciate if you could look in the Monumental Inscriptions hard copies file for Edworth (recorder 1997) to see if any entries for Kidman family :).
I would be grateful for any information on the Kidmans.
Many thanks.
cupocake
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As I had nothing better to do today, and that I don't live too far away, I took a drive over to Edworth.
The headstone inscription on the reverse is for George Harold Thompson and his wife Decima Omega Thompson. Decima must surely be the daughter of James and Louisa.
James' father George is there though, along with many other Kidmans.
I took a number of photos, not of every grave (it was pretty cold) but of all the Kidmans I could identify. Some inscriptions I couldn't make out at all.
Looking at the photos when I got home I realised I hadn't done a particularly good job, what with so many being skewed. Sorry about that; I clearly need more practice.
Full set of grave photos, at higher resolution:
https://postimg.org/gallery/1221gpi3e/
PS: Someone clearly visits George and Decima's grave as the flowers are quite fresh. I did have to remove a couple to get a shot of the full inscription but I was respectful (and obviously replaced them).
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As I had nothing better to do today, and that I don't live too far away, I took a drive over to Edworth.
The headstone inscription on the reverse is for George Harold Thompson and his wife Decima Omega Thompson. Decima must surely be the daughter of James and Louisa.
James' father George is there though, along with many other Kidmans.
I took a number of photos, not of every grave (it was pretty cold) but of all the Kidmans I could identify. Some inscriptions I couldn't make out at all.
Looking at the photos when I got home I realised I hadn't done a particularly good job, what with so many being skewed. Sorry about that; I clearly need more practice.
Full set of grave photos, at higher resolution:
https://postimg.org/gallery/1221gpi3e/
PS: Someone clearly visits George and Decima's grave as the flowers are quite fresh. I did have to remove a couple to get a shot of the full inscription but I was respectful (and obviously replaced them).
I am extremely grateful to you for going to Edworth churchyard in this extremely cold weather and taking photographs of my ancestors headstones.
I now know George isn't buried there but, Decima Omega was James Julian & Louisa's daughter born July 3 1892 (rather an unusual name) They had 10 children Decima, being the youngest. As you pointed out, someone clearly visits George and Decima's grave and, the headstone appears to be cleaned too. So, I have ancestors still living :)
From the photograph's George had a son named George. At the moment I don't have any information on James Julian's parents - George KIDMAN other than he died August 1882 and married to Elizabeth. I still have to go through the other photographs to find George KIDMAN's headstone with wife Elizabeth.
Thank you once again :D.
cupcake
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George KIDMAN'S headstone gives his father as George but, no mention of his wife Elizabeth.
From the little information I have, George and Elizabeth had three children:
1861 CENSUS
James. J. KIDMAN 12 Hinxworth, Hertfordshire
William. E. KIDMAN 11 Dunton, Beds
Maria KIDMAN 9 Dunton, Beds
cupcake
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I think James Julians' parents were George Kidman and Elizabeth Kidman Coleman and that Elizabeth died in 1864 and George re-married to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) the following year. And that both Edith and George died in 1882.
So the grave at Edworth of George buried in 1882, age 57, (grave #9) is likely James Julian's father but quite where Edith is a question. George's first wife Elizabeth might be grave #6. Note that most of the older burials are a single person.
George Kidman and Elizabeth Kidman Coleman
Censuses:
1841 Edworth
George with parents George and Edith
Ref HO107; Piece 2; Book 15; Folio 5; Page 8;
1851 Dunton Millo
George and Elizabeth and various children, including James Julian.
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 296; Page 5;
1861 Dunton
George and Elizabeth and various children
Ref RG09; Piece 995; Folio 127; Page 20;
1871 Henlow
George and 2nd wife Edith, and various children.
Ref RG10; Piece 1551; Folio 89; Page 16;
1881 Hardwick, Cambridgeshire
George and Edith, and son Harry George.
Ref RG11; Piece 1655; Folio 85; Page 9;
GRO BMD references:
1847 Q4 Marriage: George Kidman & Elizabeth Kidman Coleman; Royston; 6; 1017
1864 Q2 Death: Elizabeth Kidman Kidman; 37 (est b1827); Biggleswade; 03b; 241
1865 Q2 Marriage: George Kidman & Edith Burton; Biggleswade; 03b; 591
1882 Q3 Death: George Kidman; 57 (est b1825); Biggleswade; 03b; 190
1882 Q1 Death: Edith Kidman; 55 (est b1827); Cambridge; 03b; 339
1848 Q2 Birth: James Julian Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Royston And Buntingford; 06; 581
1849 Q4 Birth: William Earnest Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 06; 70
1851 Q3 Birth: Marian Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 06; 70
1854 Q2 Birth: Arthur George Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 328
1857 Q1 Birth: - Kidman (M); (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 338
1858 Q1 Birth: Elizabeth Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 345
1859 Q4 Birth: - Kidman (F); (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 321
1861 Q4 Birth: - Kidman (F); (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 315
1863 Q4 Birth: Hugh Smyth Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 353
1866 Q4 Birth: Harry George Kidman; (mmn: Waters); Biggleswade; 03b; 322
Newspaper item implying George left Edworth around 1879:
Cambridge Independent Press
06 Sep 1879
Edworth, Bedfordshire
The Lower Farm
Messers. Conder & Son have received instructions from Mr George Kidman, who is leaving Edworth to sell by auction, on Friday, October 3rd 1879, the live and dead farming stock on the above farm, of which further particulars will be published.
Estate Agents' and Auctioneers' Offices Biggleswade
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And I think George Kidman's (1825-1882) parents were George Kidman and Edith Waters.
George Kidman and Edith Waters
Marriage:
married: 09 Dec 1822; Dunton; license
groom: George Kidman; bach; of Hitchin, Herts
bride: Edith Waters; spin; otp
witnesses: Elizabeth Butterfield, William Masters, Thomas Waters
note: with consent of parents
Censuses:
1841 Edworth
George and Edith, with various children
Ref HO107; Piece 2; Book 15; Folio 5; Page 8;
1851 Edworth
George and Edith, with various children
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 317; Page 10;
1861 Edworth
George and Edith, with various children
Ref RG09; Piece 996; Folio 39; Page 4;
1871 Edworth
Edith, widowed, living with married daughter Emma, and Emma's husband Edward Kidman.
Ref RG10; Piece 1550; Folio 54; Page 4;
GRO BMD references:
1864 Q3 Death: George Kidman; 66 (est b1798); Biggleswade; 03b; 219
1878 Q2 Death: Edith Kidman; 77 (est b1801); Biggleswade; 03b; 220
Probate indexes:
George Kidman
27 December 1864
The will of George Kidman late of Edworth in the County of Bedford Farmer deceased who died 1 September 1864 at Edworth aforsaid was proved at the Principal Registry by the oaths of George Kidman of Millo in the parish of Dunton in the said County Farmer the son and and Edward Kidman of Sharpenhoe in the parish of Streatley in the said county Farmer the nephew two of the Executors.
Effects under £10,000
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1864&page=5#calendar
Edith Kidman
28 May 1878
The will of Edith Kidman late of Edworth in the county of Bedford who died 1 May 1878 at Edworth was proved at the Principal Registry by Edward Kidman of Shefford in the said county Gentleman the Nephew the surviving Executor.
Peronal effects under £800
No: 421
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1878#calendar
Edward Kidman
26 April 1883
The will of Edward Kidman late of Shefford in the county of Bedford Gentleman who died 15 March 1883 at Shefford was proved at the Principal Registry by George Edward Kidman of Fenton in the County of Huntingdon Farmer the Son and James Kirkby of Shefford Coal Merchant the Executors.
Peronsal estate: £28,199 10s 9d
No: 325
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1883#calendar
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I think James Julians' parents were George Kidman and Elizabeth Kidman Coleman and that Elizabeth died in 1864 and George re-married to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) the following year. And that both Edith and George died in 1882.
So the grave at Edworth of George buried in 1882, age 57, (grave #9) is likely James Julian's father but quite where Edith is a question. George's first wife Elizabeth might be grave #6. Note that most of the older burials are a single person.
Yes, is a question as to where George's wife is buried - had a look through the photo's but didn't see it.
I didn't know George's wife died in 1864. She would only have been 37 yrs. as from the 1861 census Elizabeth was only 34 yrs.That would explain why they only had three children.
So, George re-married in 1865 to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) and they both died in 1882 George wasn't old when he died , just 57yrs.
Thank you so much for all this information - will keep me busy for a while.
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I think James Julians' parents were George Kidman and Elizabeth Kidman Coleman and that Elizabeth died in 1864 and George re-married to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) the following year. And that both Edith and George died in 1882.
So the grave at Edworth of George buried in 1882, age 57, (grave #9) is likely James Julian's father but quite where Edith is a question. George's first wife Elizabeth might be grave #6. Note that most of the older burials are a single person.
George Kidman and Elizabeth Kidman Coleman
Censuses:
1841 Edworth
George with parents George and Edith
Ref HO107; Piece 2; Book 15; Folio 5; Page 8;
1851 Dunton Millo
George and Elizabeth and various children, including James Julian.
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 296; Page 5;
1861 Dunton
George and Elizabeth and various children
Ref RG09; Piece 995; Folio 127; Page 20;
1871 Henlow
George and 2nd wife Edith, and various children.
Ref RG10; Piece 1551; Folio 89; Page 16;
1881 Hardwick, Cambridgeshire
George and Edith, and son Harry George.
Ref RG11; Piece 1655; Folio 85; Page 9;
GRO BMD references:
1847 Q4 Marriage: George Kidman & Elizabeth Kidman Coleman; Royston; 6; 1017
1864 Q2 Death: Elizabeth Kidman Kidman; 37 (est b1827); Biggleswade; 03b; 241
1865 Q2 Marriage: George Kidman & Edith Burton; Biggleswade; 03b; 591
1882 Q3 Death: George Kidman; 57 (est b1825); Biggleswade; 03b; 190
1882 Q1 Death: Edith Kidman; 55 (est b1827); Cambridge; 03b; 339
1848 Q2 Birth: James Julian Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Royston And Buntingford; 06; 581
1849 Q4 Birth: William Earnest Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 06; 70
1851 Q3 Birth: Marian Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 06; 70
1854 Q2 Birth: Arthur George Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 328
1857 Q1 Birth: - Kidman (M); (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 338
1858 Q1 Birth: Elizabeth Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 345
1859 Q4 Birth: - Kidman (F); (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 321
1861 Q4 Birth: - Kidman (F); (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 315
1863 Q4 Birth: Hugh Smyth Kidman; (mmn: Coleman); Biggleswade; 03b; 353
1866 Q4 Birth: Harry George Kidman; (mmn: Waters); Biggleswade; 03b; 322
Newspaper item implying George left Edworth around 1879:
Cambridge Independent Press
06 Sep 1879
Edworth, Bedfordshire
The Lower Farm
Messers. Conder & Son have received instructions from Mr George Kidman, who is leaving Edworth to sell by auction, on Friday, October 3rd 1879, the live and dead farming stock on the above farm, of which further particulars will be published.
Estate Agents' and Auctioneers' Offices Biggleswade
Now know who George's parents were George & Edith and I wonder if George was unwell as he was leaving Edworth, to sell by auction and died 3 years later as did his wife Edith.
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And I think George Kidman's (1825-1882) parents were George Kidman and Edith Waters.
George Kidman and Edith Waters
Marriage:
married: 09 Dec 1822; Dunton; license
groom: George Kidman; bach; of Hitchin, Herts
bride: Edith Waters; spin; otp
witnesses: Elizabeth Butterfield, William Masters, Thomas Waters
note: with consent of parents
Censuses:
1841 Edworth
George and Edith, with various children
Ref HO107; Piece 2; Book 15; Folio 5; Page 8;
1851 Edworth
George and Edith, with various children
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 317; Page 10;
1861 Edworth
George and Edith, with various children
Ref RG09; Piece 996; Folio 39; Page 4;
1871 Edworth
Edith, widowed, living with married daughter Emma, and Emma's husband Edward Kidman.
Ref RG10; Piece 1550; Folio 54; Page 4;
GRO BMD references:
1864 Q3 Death: George Kidman; 66 (est b1798); Biggleswade; 03b; 219
1878 Q2 Death: Edith Kidman; 77 (est b1801); Biggleswade; 03b; 220
Probate indexes:
George Kidman
27 December 1864
The will of George Kidman late of Edworth in the County of Bedford Farmer deceased who died 1 September 1864 at Edworth aforsaid was proved at the Principal Registry by the oaths of George Kidman of Millo in the parish of Dunton in the said County Farmer the son and and Edward Kidman of Sharpenhoe in the parish of Streatley in the said county Farmer the nephew two of the Executors.
Effects under £10,000
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1864&page=5#calendar
Edith Kidman
28 May 1878
The will of Edith Kidman late of Edworth in the county of Bedford who died 1 May 1878 at Edworth was proved at the Principal Registry by Edward Kidman of Shefford in the said county Gentleman the Nephew the surviving Executor.
Peronal effects under £800
No: 421
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1878#calendar
Edward Kidman
26 April 1883
The will of Edward Kidman late of Shefford in the county of Bedford Gentleman who died 15 March 1883 at Shefford was proved at the Principal Registry by George Edward Kidman of Fenton in the County of Huntingdon Farmer the Son and James Kirkby of Shefford Coal Merchant the Executors.
Peronsal estate: £28,199 10s 9d
No: 325
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1883#calendar
WOW! you have been very busy I appreciate all the information and as I said, will keep me busy for sometime.
Many thanks again
cupcake
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I didn't know George's wife died in 1864. She would only have been 37 yrs. as from the 1861 census Elizabeth was only 34 yrs.That would explain why they only had three children.
So, George re-married in 1865 to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) and they both died in 1882 George wasn't old when he died , just 57yrs.
It should go without saying that I'm doing a lot of speculation based on the records I can find.
However, I think George and Elizabeth had 9 children (see GRO births in previous post). Five of these children appear in the censuses with them and some may have died young and not appeared on censuses.
And it looks like George (jnr) and Edith had a child together but that's very speculative. It's that possible birth registration of Harry George Kidman, with mmn Waters, that I'm guessing is their son, which would imply Edith was widowed when she and George married.
You should probably find a way to access the British Newspaper Archives, as there's all manner of newspaper items on the various family members over many years, including your grandparents Percy and Gertrude (if I've understood a comment in your other thread).
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George re-married in 1865 to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) Could this Edith have been related to Edith Waters who was married George's father :-\
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I didn't know George's wife died in 1864. She would only have been 37 yrs. as from the 1861 census Elizabeth was only 34 yrs.That would explain why they only had three children.
So, George re-married in 1865 to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) and they both died in 1882 George wasn't old when he died , just 57yrs.
It should go without saying that I'm doing a lot of speculation based on the records I can find.
However, I think George and Elizabeth had 9 children (see GRO births in previous post). Five of these children appear in the censuses with them and some may have died young and not appeared on censuses.
And it looks like George (jnr) and Edith had a child together but that's very speculative. It's that possible birth registration of Harry George Kidman, with mmn Waters, that I'm guessing is their son, which would imply Edith was widowed when she and George married.
You should probably find a way to access the British Newspaper Archives, as there's all manner of newspaper items on the various family members over many years, including your grandparents Percy and Gertrude (if I've understood a comment in your other thread).
You are doing well, even though you are doing a lot of speculation based on the records you find. I have nothing to go on, just what you are giving me and it does make sense to me.
Yes, Percy & Gertrude are my Grandparents (sadly I never met them)
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George re-married in 1865 to Edith Burton (nee Waters?) Could this Edith have been related to Edith Waters who was married George's father :-\
Possibly (probably?).
It looks like Edith, who married George Kidman (jnr) in 1865, was the daughter of Thomas and Ann Waters and her first husband was William Burton, who died in 1857.
GRO BMD references:
1847 Q2 Marriage: William Burton and Edith Waters; Biggleswade; 06; 73
1848 Q2 Birth: Thomas Waters Burton (mmn: Waters); Biggleswade; 06; 37
1857 Q2 Death: William Burton; 37 (est b1820); Biggleswade; 03b; 218
Edith's parents:
1851 Q4 Death: Ann Waters; 46 (est b1805); Biggleswade; 06; 40
1863 Q4 Death: Thomas Waters; 69 (est b1794); Biggleswade; 03b; 233
Baptism:
name: Edith Waters
baptised: 14 May 1826; St Mary Magdelane, Dunton
father: Thomas, yeoman
mother: Ann
Marriage:
married: 13 Apr 1847; Dunton
groom: Thomas Burton
bride: Ann Waters
grooms father: Thomas Burton
brides father: Thomas Waters
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVS1-8TC
Marriage:
married: 13 Apr 1847; Dunton
groom: George Kidman
bride: Ann Burton
grooms father: George Kidman
brides father: Thomas Waters
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVSB-8XX
Censuses:
1841 Newton Bury
Edith (presumably) with her parents Thomas and Ann
Ref HO107; Piece 2; Book 14; Folio 3; Page 2;
1851 Dunton Newton
Thomas and Ann Waters with various children (but not Edith)
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 294; Page 1;
1851 Biggleswade
Edith with first husband William Burton and son Thomas, and Edith's sister Mary
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 573; Page 42;
1861 Newton Bay Farm, Dunton
Edith, widow, living with her widowed father Thomas
Ref RG09; Piece 995; Folio 125; Page 16;
Probate index for Edith's father:
Thomas Waters
10 Mar 1864
The will of Thomas Waters late of Newton Bury in the parish of Dunton in the county of Bedford Gentleman deceased who died 1 December 1863 at Newton Bury aforesaid was proved at the Principal Registry by the oaths of John William Ryder of Ramerwick Manor House in the parish of Ickleford in the county of Hertford Farmer and Waters Masters of Wrestlingworth in the said county of Bedford Farmer two of the Executors.
Effects under £3,000
No: 213
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Waters&yearOfDeath=1864&page=5#calendar
From the censuses Edith's father Thomas was born c1793 in Eyeworth, which tallies with a baptism record:
Baptism:
name: Thomas Waters
baptised: 17 Nov 1794; All Saints, Eyeworth
father: Thomas
mother: Mary
Looking at Edith who married George Kidman (snr) in 1822, from the censuses she was born c1801 in Edworth or Dunton. The Beds FHS surname index has only one baptism for an Edith Waters around this time and that's in Eyeworth:
Baptism:
name: Edith Waters
baptised: 28 May 1802; All Saints, Eyeworth
father: Thomas
mother: Mary
age: 2 years
So I think it's quite likely that the older Edith is the aunt of the younger Edith.
There is another possible connection between the Kidmans and Waters, which may just be a coincidence. I had previously come across a (very long) newspaper article re. the death of a Bethia Donne in April 1874. Bethia was named as the daughter of George Kidman, a farmer of Edworth. Bethia's body was found in the River Ouse at Bedford and various witnesses stated that they knew her and that she was the daughter of George and that she'd been married to George Waters and Charles John Donne, of London, and that Bethia had separated from Charles (after he'd brought another woman home).
The coroner reached the verdict of "found drowned" but the witness statements give the impression it may have been a suicide.
Bethia's possessions included included a mourning card, "Sacred to the memory of George Kidman, of Edworth, Beds, died Sep 1st, 1864, aged 66 years", so I think its safe to say she was the daughter of George (snr) and Edith.
Looking at the marriage of Bethia and George Waters, George names his father as Thomas (coincidence?).
Marriage:
married: 03 Mar 1866; St Pancras parish chapel; lic
groom: George Waters; fa; bach; gardener; St Pancras
bride: Bithia Kidman; fa; spin; -; Edworth, Bedfordshire
grooms father: Thomas Waters (dec)
brides father: George Kidman (dec)
witnesses: Joseph Lautre? Roberts, Wm? Buck??ge
GRO BMD references:
1866 Q1 Marriage: Bithia Kidman and George Waters; Pancras; 01b; 135
1872 Q2 Marriage: Bethia Waters and Charles John Doune; Pancras; 01b; 280
1874 Q2 Death: Bethiah Donne; 36 (est b1838); Bedford; 03b; 197
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From FindMyPast/BNA there's an interesting news article in Bedford Mercury of 11 April 1874 about the inquest into the mysterious death of Berthiah Kidman age 36 (born 1838), daughter of George Kidman farmer of Edworth, who was found in the river Great Ouse at Bedford. This Berthia first married George WATERS at St.Pancras RD in Mar 1866 & after he died about 1867 she married Charles John Donne/Doune in June 1872.
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From FindMyPast/BNA there's an interesting news article in Bedford Mercury of 11 April 1874 about the inquest into the mysterious death of Berthiah Kidman age 36 (born 1838), daughter of George Kidman farmer of Edworth, who was found in the river Great Ouse at Bedford. This Berthia first married George WATERS at St.Pancras RD in Mar 1866 & after he died about 1867 she married Charles John Donne/Doune in June 1872.
This is interesting and has my grey cells working overtime.
There is no mention of Berthiah KIDMAN on the 1851 census - she would have 13. There is an Elizabeth - daughter aged 50 (must be an error)
I don't have FindMyPast. I do however go to my local library to access Ancestry.
Will attempt to do some research to try and find more on Berthiah KIDMAN.
ADD. She wasn't married long to George WATERS with his death in around a year.
Thank you
cupcake
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There is no mention of Berthiah KIDMAN on the 1851 census - she would have 13.
Yes there is, living at Edworth: George Kidman age 52 Farmer, wife Edith age 50, daughter Mary Ann 24, son James 22, son Thomas 19 & daughter BETHIA age 13
She's home age 23 with parents & brother James age 32 at Edworth Farm in 1861
As widow Bethia Waters age 32 she's living in Hitchin in 1871
** Just reread newspaper article, she's there as BETHIAH
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I am a tad confused
Berthiah Kidman age 36 (born 1838), daughter of George Kidman farmer of Edworth,
This would mean Berthiah was born 1802 - so which George KIDMAN was her father?
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There is no mention of Berthiah KIDMAN on the 1851 census - she would have 13.
Yes there is, living at Edworth: George Kidman age 52 Farmer, wife Edith age 50, daughter Mary Ann 24, son James 22, son Thomas 19 & daughter BETHIA age 13
** just reread newspaper article, she's there as BETHIAH
Thank you for clearing that up. I got the info from Family Search. That means Bethiah KIDMAN was born around 1838
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I am a tad confused
Berthiah Kidman age 36 (born 1838), daughter of George Kidman farmer of Edworth,
This would mean Berthiah was born 1802 - so which George KIDMAN was her father?
Please forget the above, I am having a senior moment ::).
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The George Waters who married Bethia on 3 March 1866 at St.Pancras had father Thomas, farmer. Is he the George age 23, the son of Thomas Waters of Dunton, widower in 1861 with widowed daughter Edith Burton aged 35.
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GRO BMD references:
1847 Q4 Marriage: George Kidman & Elizabeth Kidman Coleman; Royston; 6; 1017
1864 Q2 Death: Elizabeth Kidman Kidman; 37 (est b1827); Biggleswade; 03b; 241
1865 Q2 Marriage: George Kidman & Edith Burton; Biggleswade; 03b; 591
1882 Q3 Death: George Kidman; 57 (est b1825); Biggleswade; 03b; 190
1882 Q1 Death: Edith Kidman; 55 (est b1827); Cambridge; 03b; 339
Bethia's possessions included included a mourning card, "Sacred to the memory of George Kidman, of Edworth, Beds, died Sep 1st, 1864, aged 66 years", so I think its safe to say she was the daughter of George (snr) and Edith.
The George married to Edith died in 1882 different to Mourning card above ???
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You both seem to have overlooked my last post, where I referred to Bethia and the newspaper article about her death, and concluded she was the daughter of George Kidman (snr) (1798-1864) and Edith (1801-1878), and thus the sister of George Kidman (jnr) (1828-1882).
I had also previously posted the census references for George Kidman (snr) and Edith, although I didn't name the children but (as you've now seen) the census records show daughter Bethia born c1838.
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Beds Archives has various references to the family, including an extract from the will of a George Kidman, of Edworth. The archive record has the will being proved on 27 Dev 1814 but I think it's likely a mistake and actually refers to George's will being proved on 27 Dec 1864.
It names his daughter Bithia.
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110344222
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You both seem to have overlooked my last post, where I referred to Bethia and the newspaper article about her death, and concluded she was the daughter of George Kidman (snr) (1798-1864) and Edith (1801-1878), and thus the sister of George Kidman (jnr) (1828-1882).
I had also previously posted the census references for George Kidman (snr) and Edith, although I didn't name the children but (as you've now seen) the census records show daughter Bethia born c1838.
I certainly have overlooked your last post. I need to absorb more.
cupcake
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I think you've probably got plenty to gone on for now cupcake but if you need any more help just ask. Hopefully John can lookup the Edworth records for you, which may help answer some of the questions.
I think there's quite of lot of documents about for the Kidmans though, including newspapers, Beds Archives, The National Archives, wills, as well the usual parish registers and BMD certs., so I think the Kidmans could keep you (happily) busy for a while.
Re. Beds parish registers, the best place online is probably FamilySearch. However, I haven't found any online source that has full transcriptions, they often omit accompanying notes, which can be very significant. Other than seeing original records, the Beds FHS transcripts are by far the best option, IMO.
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The University of Florida has online transcripts up to 1812 of the first 44 volumes (93 parishes) as done by Dr. Emmison. Here is volume 02 that includes Edworth, however there are no Kidman entries.
https://archive.org/stream/bedfordshirepari02bedf#page/n0/mode/2up
Replace the 02 with value 01 - 44 to see the other volumes.
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The University of Florida has online transcripts up to 1812 of the first 44 volumes (93 parishes) as done by Dr. Emmison. Here is volume 02 that includes Edworth, however there are no Kidman entries.
https://archive.org/stream/bedfordshirepari02bedf#page/n0/mode/2up
Replace the 02 with value 01 - 44 to see the other volumes.
Thank you.
Just the fact theses are KIDMANS - had a brief look and found on E13 a Thos. KIDMAN (Streatly) marriage? 1811 to a Mary SMYTH ( minor) very small print.
One other one C34 Jul 1699 Rob KIDMAN (Cottager) Joan Salt
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Interesting, the page E13 for the 1811 marriage is not listed in the index, so i missed it.
However there's a bonus here as it says that marriage was by Licence and volume 15 has transcript of marriage allegations & licences, and additional info is available......
Marriage licence dated 24 Oct 1811 for Thomas Kidman, farmer of Streatley, of age, to marry Mary Smyth of Edworth, minor, daughter of Hugh Smyth; surety given by Hugh Smyth, farmer of Edworth.
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cuffie81
Have looked at all the photographs you kindly took for me and, can relate to some of them being George KIDMAN( senior's) family. Also, George (snr) parents were James KIDMAN & Sarah Davies
I wonder where Bethie Donne (Kidman) who died in April 1874 was buried.
cupcake
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Hi cupcake,
Looking through the various newspaper articles on Bethiah's death, at least one notes that she was interred at Bedford Cemetery.
Bedfordshire Mercury
11 Apr 1874
A Woman Found Drowned
Mysterious Death
... Deceased was interred in the Bedford Cemetery on Friday...
I couldn't find any burial record online nor in the Beds FHS surname index (but the Beds FHS transcripts don't tend to go up to this date). JohnP may know whether any of the Beds Cemetery records or transcripts of this period are available online.
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Hi cupcake,
Looking through the various newspaper articles on Bethiah's death, at least one notes that she was interred at Bedford Cemetery.
Bedfordshire Mercury
11 Apr 1874
A Woman Found Drowned
Mysterious Death
... Deceased was interred in the Bedford Cemetery on Friday...
I couldn't find any burial record online nor in the Beds FHS surname index (but the Beds FHS transcripts don't tend to go up to this date). JohnP may know whether any of the Beds Cemetery records or transcripts of this period are available online.
Thank you for giving me Bethia's interred place Bedford cemetery, also the Bedford Mercury 11 April 1874. Is there just one Bedford Cemetery?
Sometime ago I contacted the Biggleswade Town Council to find out where my Grandparents - Percy .C. KIDMAN & Gertrude KIDMAN (Partridge)were buried.They are in Drove Road Cemetery.
Wonder if Bethia stayed with, or near her brother George KIDMAN (jnr.) I do wonder why Bethia married both men in Pancras, London, normally the Bride married from where she was born.
I am going to put another post up Charles John DOUNE/DONNE as I can't find him anywhere.
Thank you once again.
cupcake
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Beds Archives have the cemetery records.... suggest you contact them for a look up
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Beds Archives have the cemetery records.... suggest you contact them for a look up
I will do.
Have been searching for any other information on Bethia's tragic death and discovered, she had been missing:
AND ETON ExPitr,As, REMO, BUCKS, SURREY, AND MIDDLESEX JOURNAL: MA TDENHEAD ANT) SLOUGH GAZITTE,—APRIL IS. 1874
... the body of a lady was found floating in the river Ouse at Bedford, and has been since identified as that of the missing Mrs. Doane. At the inquest held upon the body by Dr. Prior, at the Ship Hotel. Bedford, Mrs. Annie limes, a boarding-house keeper, ...
Published: Saturday 18 April 1874
Newspaper: Windsor and Eton Express
County: Berkshire, England
Type: Illustrated | Words: 12979 | Page: 2, 3 | Tags: none
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Your best option would be to read the articles in the British Newspaper Archives, either directly or via FindMyPast; both have free trials or maybe your local library has a subscription.
Skimming through newspapers for Kidmans (just on your direct line) I came across various items, below are some of the more interesting ones. If you branch out from I expect you'll find numerous other items.
1843 Thomas Kidman - Deceased, of Streatley - Cambridge Independent Press 30 Dec 1843
1867 George Kidman - Auction of property - Bedfordshire Mercury 14 Sep 1867
1867 George Kidman - Notice to creditors - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 17 Sep 1867
1874 Bethiah Donne (Kidman) - Found drowned - Bedfordshire Mercury 11 Apr 1874
1875 James Kidman - of Dunton, found body of child in well - Bedfordshire Mercury 20 Mar 1875
1878 Edith Kidman - Auction of property - Cambridge Independent 25 May 1878
1878 Edith Kidman - Notice to creditors - Luton Times and Advertiser 5 Jul 1878
1879 George Kidman - of Lower Farm, Edworth; auction - Bedfordshire Mercury 6 Sep 1879
1879 George Kidman - of Lower Farm, Edworth; auction - Cambridge Independent Press 06 Sep 1879
1887 George Ryden Kidman - son of James, marriage to Carrie Roberts - Northampton Mercury 12 Feb 1887
1904 Percy Charles Kidman - Marriage to Gertrude Partridge - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 07 Oct 1904
1904 Percy Kidman - Given clock on occasion of his marriage - Biggleswade Chronicle 30 Sep 1904
1913 Hugh Kidman - Airship descent at West Sunderland farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 24 Oct1913
1913 James Kidman - Notice of resignation as guardian of Dunton - Biggleswade Chronicle 14 Mar 1913
1916 Dessie Kidman - Marriage to J Harold Thompson - Biggleswade Chronicle 29 Dec 1916
1916 James Edward Percy Kidman - of Sunderland Farm; military exemption - Biggleswade Chronicle 07 Apr 1916
1916 Joe Kidman - son of James, of Dunton, welcomed home - Biggleswade Chronicle 08 Dec 1916
1916 Percy Kidman - Donation to PoW fund - Biggleswade Chronicle 10 Nov 1916
1918 George Kidman - Pte, Death, son of J J Kidman of Newton Farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 06 Dec 1918
1918 James J Kidman - Occupant of Newton Farm, up for auction - Biggleswade Chronicle 21 Jun 1918
1920 James Julian Kidman - Funeral - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 16 Apr 1920
1920 Percy Kidman - Horse killed by lightning - Biggleswade Chronicle 18 Jun 1920
1929 Percy Kidman - Large fire destroys motor buses - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 15 Mar 1929
1929 Percy Kidman - Claim for damages - Biggleswade Chronicle 31 May 1929
1929 Stanley Partridge Kidman - marriage to Barbara Wright - Biggleswade Chronicle 07 Jun 1929
1932 Percy Kidman - Fire started by lightning at Sunderland farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 12 Aug 1932
1944 P C Kidman - Death; of Gamlingay - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 29 Dec 1944
1945 Percy Charles Kidman - Funeral, Biggleswade - Biggleswade Chronicle 05 Jan 1945
1945 Percy Charles Kidman - Will; of Gamlingay, late of Sunderland Farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 30 Mar 1945
1953 Gertrude Kidman - Death - Biggleswade Chronicle 17 Jul 1953
On a cheerier note, and slightly off topic, you'll note Decima's marriage made the newspapers...
Biggleswade Chronicle
29 Dec 1916
Attraction Wedding at Dunton
Marriage of Miss Dessie Kidman
Considerable attraction was evoked in the village on Wednesday at noon, for Duntion Parish Church was the scene of one of the smartest and prettiest weddings ever held in the village of Dunton. The bride has been very popular in the village and a large congregation and many guests were present at the service, which was conducted by Canon F. E. Mullet M.A. (vicar). The organist and choir were present and appropriate music was heartily sung.
The bride was Miss Dessie O. Kidman the younger daughter of Mr and Mrs Jas. J. Kidman, of Newton Grove Farm, Dunton, and the bridegroom was Mr J. Harold Thompson. Mr Kidman gave away his daughter, who looked charming in a white dress and bridal veil, with wreath of orange blossom. Miss Green, of Kingswalden Villa?, Biggleswade, friend of the bride, was the bridesmaid. After the ceremony had been performed, and the register signed, Mr Maurice Chamberlain, the organist, played in excellent style "The Wedding March". The guests were motored to the village schoolroom, which was tastefully decorated for the attended reception. The health of the young couple was heartily drunk, and they had a great send off when they stepped into their motor car en route for Biggleswade station to catch the 5.4 train for London, where part of the honeymoon is being spent. The presents were a choice and valuable collection.
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Your best option would be to read the articles in the British Newspaper Archives, either directly or via FindMyPast; both have free trials or maybe your local library has a subscription.
Skimming through newspapers for Kidmans (just on your direct line) I came across various items, below are some of the more interesting ones. If you branch out from I expect you'll find numerous other items.
1843 Thomas Kidman - Deceased, of Streatley - Cambridge Independent Press 30 Dec 1843
1867 George Kidman - Auction of property - Bedfordshire Mercury 14 Sep 1867
1867 George Kidman - Notice to creditors - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 17 Sep 1867
1874 Bethiah Donne (Kidman) - Found drowned - Bedfordshire Mercury 11 Apr 1874
1875 James Kidman - of Dunton, found body of child in well - Bedfordshire Mercury 20 Mar 1875
1878 Edith Kidman - Auction of property - Cambridge Independent 25 May 1878
1878 Edith Kidman - Notice to creditors - Luton Times and Advertiser 5 Jul 1878
1879 George Kidman - of Lower Farm, Edworth; auction - Bedfordshire Mercury 6 Sep 1879
1879 George Kidman - of Lower Farm, Edworth; auction - Cambridge Independent Press 06 Sep 1879
1887 George Ryden Kidman - son of James, marriage to Carrie Roberts - Northampton Mercury 12 Feb 1887
1904 Percy Charles Kidman - Marriage to Gertrude Partridge - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 07 Oct 1904
1904 Percy Kidman - Given clock on occasion of his marriage - Biggleswade Chronicle 30 Sep 1904
1913 Hugh Kidman - Airship descent at West Sunderland farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 24 Oct1913
1913 James Kidman - Notice of resignation as guardian of Dunton - Biggleswade Chronicle 14 Mar 1913
1916 Dessie Kidman - Marriage to J Harold Thompson - Biggleswade Chronicle 29 Dec 1916
1916 James Edward Percy Kidman - of Sunderland Farm; military exemption - Biggleswade Chronicle 07 Apr 1916
1916 Joe Kidman - son of James, of Dunton, welcomed home - Biggleswade Chronicle 08 Dec 1916
1916 Percy Kidman - Donation to PoW fund - Biggleswade Chronicle 10 Nov 1916
1918 George Kidman - Pte, Death, son of J J Kidman of Newton Farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 06 Dec 1918
1918 James J Kidman - Occupant of Newton Farm, up for auction - Biggleswade Chronicle 21 Jun 1918
1920 James Julian Kidman - Funeral - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 16 Apr 1920
1920 Percy Kidman - Horse killed by lightning - Biggleswade Chronicle 18 Jun 1920
1929 Percy Kidman - Large fire destroys motor buses - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 15 Mar 1929
1929 Percy Kidman - Claim for damages - Biggleswade Chronicle 31 May 1929
1929 Stanley Partridge Kidman - marriage to Barbara Wright - Biggleswade Chronicle 07 Jun 1929
1932 Percy Kidman - Fire started by lightning at Sunderland farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 12 Aug 1932
1944 P C Kidman - Death; of Gamlingay - Bedfordshire Times and Independent 29 Dec 1944
1945 Percy Charles Kidman - Funeral, Biggleswade - Biggleswade Chronicle 05 Jan 1945
1945 Percy Charles Kidman - Will; of Gamlingay, late of Sunderland Farm - Biggleswade Chronicle 30 Mar 1945
1953 Gertrude Kidman - Death - Biggleswade Chronicle 17 Jul 1953
On a cheerier note, and slightly off topic, you'll note Decima's marriage made the newspapers...
Biggleswade Chronicle
29 Dec 1916
Attraction Wedding at Dunton
Marriage of Miss Dessie Kidman
Considerable attraction was evoked in the village on Wednesday at noon, for Duntion Parish Church was the scene of one of the smartest and prettiest weddings ever held in the village of Dunton. The bride has been very popular in the village and a large congregation and many guests were present at the service, which was conducted by Canon F. E. Mullet M.A. (vicar). The organist and choir were present and appropriate music was heartily sung.
The bride was Miss Dessie O. Kidman the younger daughter of Mr and Mrs Jas. J. Kidman, of Newton Grove Farm, Dunton, and the bridegroom was Mr J. Harold Thompson. Mr Kidman gave away his daughter, who looked charming in a white dress and bridal veil, with wreath of orange blossom. Miss Green, of Kingswalden Villa?, Biggleswade, friend of the bride, was the bridesmaid. After the ceremony had been performed, and the register signed, Mr Maurice Chamberlain, the organist, played in excellent style "The Wedding March". The guests were motored to the village schoolroom, which was tastefully decorated for the attended reception. The health of the young couple was heartily drunk, and they had a great send off when they stepped into their motor car en route for Biggleswade station to catch the 5.4 train for London, where part of the honeymoon is being spent. The presents were a choice and valuable collection.
I am not sure whether the library has Find My Past, but worth looking into. Found the newspapers snippets interesting most of which I didn't know about.
This has cheered me up from the Biggleswade Chronicle 29 Dec 1916
Attraction Wedding at Dunton Marriage of Miss Dessie Kidman. Thank you so much for that.
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cuffie81,
I have read the full lengthy and most detailed story in the Bedfordshire Mercury April 11 1874.
There is a part with Edward KIDMAN of Endworth stating to be Bethia's brother -in-law.
Mr KIDMAN also said it was the trouble with her late husband that put her out.
Could you tell me who the Edward KIDMAN might be(a brother-in-law with the name Kidman)?
Also, he states it was the trouble with her late husband that put her out - that would be George WATERS and was 5 years before she re-married. Or, do you think he was referring to her husband Charles DONNE
Just curious
cupcake
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johnP-bedford
Have contacted theBedfordshire Archives regarding cemetery records. Thank you.
cupcake
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I have read the full lengthy and most detailed story in the Bedfordshire Mercury April 11 1874.
This article also mentions ....a brooch engraved 'In memory of Isabella Edith Kidman, 1858'.
This most likely is the Isabel Edith Kidman baptised Barton in 1834 & on 1841 census is age 7 at home in Edworth with parents George & Edith & sister Bethia age 3; & who died in March qtr 1858 Biggleswade RD age 23
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I have read the full lengthy and most detailed story in the Bedfordshire Mercury April 11 1874.
This article also mentions ....a brooch engraved 'In memory of Isabella Edith Kidman, 1858'.
This most likely is the Isabel Edith Kidman baptised Barton in 1834 & on 1841 census is age 7 at home in Edworth with parents George & Edith & sister Bethia age 3; & who died in March qtr 1858 Biggleswade RD age 23
I did read this and thought Isabella Edith Kidman could be her sister. However, I didn't realise she had died in 1858 at the young age of 23yrs.
Who is the Edward KIDMAN?
ADD.
Looking at Family Search Family Group there is a Emma KIDMAN married to a Edward KIDMAN 15 March 1849, Biggleswade -this could be the Edward. Emma died the same year as her sister, Bethia 1874.
Appears they all died under the age of 50.
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Who is the brother in law Edward KIDMAN?
Reckon he's the nephew Edward Kidman of Sharpenhoe/Shefford who proved the probate of both George Kidman in 1864 & then wife Edith in 1878.
He was baptised Streatley in 1828, he married an Emma Kidman in June 1849 at Edworth; In 1851 Edward & Emma born Barton age 25 is at Sharpenhoe Bury, Streatley, with his brother William age 21 & cousin Isabel age 17 born Barton. Wife Emma Kidman was baptised Barton 1825, possible another daughter of George & Edith...
** Seems William Kidman married Mary Ann Kidman at Edworth in Bwade RD in Sept 1852. Mary Ann being another daughter of George & Edith born 1827 Barton
Seems they kept it in family !
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Who is the brother in law Edward KIDMAN?
Reckon he's the nephew Edward Kidman of Sharpenhoe/Shefford who proved the probate of both George Kidman in 1864 & then wife Edith in 1878.
He was baptised Streatley in 1828, he married an Emma Kidman in June 1849 at Edworth; In 1851 Edward & Emma born Barton age 25 is at Sharpenhoe Bury, Streatley, with his brother William age 21 & cousin Isabel age 17 born Barton. Wife Emma Kidman was baptised Barton 1825, possible another daughter of George & Edith...
Seems they kept it in family !
It certainly looks that way.
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Who is the brother in law Edward KIDMAN?
Seems they kept it in family !
It certainly looks that way.
And then some...
It looks like Emma died in 1874 and on the 1881 census Edward has a new wife, Susan (born c1842, Piggots? Hill, Herts.), with daughters Sarah E (Edith?; born c1857), Emma (born c1862) and Susan (born c1857).
There's a possible marriage for Edward and Susan in 1875, Hackney, where Susan is a Kidman?!
married: 06 Dec 1875; St John, Hackney
groom: Edward Kidman; fa; wid; farmer; Clapton
bride: Susan Kidman; fa; spin; -; Clapton
grooms father: Thomas Kidman, farmer
brides father: Thomas Kidman, farmer
witnesses: George Reyn? Thom?ian?, Harriet Field
Censuses:
1881 Shefford
Edward and Susan, with (Edward and Emma's?) daughters Sarah E, Emma and Susan.
Ref RG11; Piece 1631; Folio 104; Page 14;
1891 Shefford
Susan, widow, with (Edward and Emma's?) daughters Isabel E (Elizabeth?; born c1864) and Susan B (Bithia?; born c1867).
Ref RG12; Piece 1258; Folio 13; Page 20;
GRO BMD references:
1874 Q2 Death: Emma Kidman; age 48 (born c1826); Biggleswade; 03b; 222
1875 Q4 Marriage: Edward Kidman and Susan Kidman; Hackney; 01b; 754
1883 Q1 Death: Edward Kidman; age 55 (born c1828); Biggleswade; 03b; 248
EDIT: Added census references
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Who is the brother in law Edward KIDMAN?
Seems they kept it in family !
It certainly looks that way.
And then some...
It looks like Emma died in 1874 and on the 1881 census Edward has a new wife, Susan (born c1842, Piggots? Hill, Herts.), with daughters Sarah E (Edith?; born c1857), Emma (born c1862) and Susan (born c1857).
There's a possible marriage for Edward and Susan in 1875, Hackney, where Susan is a Kidman?!
married: 06 Dec 1875; St John, Hackney
groom: Edward Kidman; fa; wid; farmer; Clapton
bride: Susan Kidman; fa; spin; -; Clapton
grooms father: Thomas Kidman, farmer
brides father: Thomas Kidman, farmer
witnesses: George Reyn? Thom?ian?, Harriet Field
Censuses:
1881 Shefford
Edward and Susan, with (Edward and Emma's?) daughters Sarah E, Emma and Susan.
Ref RG11; Piece 1631; Folio 104; Page 14;
1891 Shefford
Susan, widow, with (Edward and Emma's?) daughters Isabel E (Elizabeth?; born c1864) and Susan B (Bithia?; born c1867).
Ref RG12; Piece 1258; Folio 13; Page 20;
GRO BMD references:
1874 Q2 Death: Emma Kidman; age 48 (born c1826); Biggleswade; 03b; 222
1875 Q4 Marriage: Edward Kidman and Susan Kidman; Hackney; 01b; 754
1883 Q1 Death: Edward Kidman; age 55 (born c1828); Biggleswade; 03b; 248
EDIT: Added census references
I can't thank you all enough for your time you have taken to give me all the information. Very much appreciated.
cupcake
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Beds Archives have the cemetery records.... suggest you contact them for a look up
Have had a reply from the Bedfordshire Archives and they can confirm that Bethia Doane (listed as Bithia) was buried at the Bedford Cemetery on the 10th April 1874.
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This article [Bedfordshire Mercury April 11 1874] also mentions ....a brooch engraved 'In memory of Isabella Edith Kidman, 1858'.
This most likely is the Isabel Edith Kidman baptised Barton in 1834 & on 1841 census is age 7 at home in Edworth with parents George & Edith & sister Bethia age 3; & who died in March qtr 1858 Biggleswade RD age 23
I did read this and thought Isabella Edith Kidman could be her sister. However, I didn't realise she had died in 1858 at the young age of 23yrs.
Isabel Edith's gravestone is one of those I photographed. The date is a bit difficult to read but I think it's 1858.
https://postimg.org/image/kmtt5b9w9/
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Bedford Cemetery transcriptions up to 1893ish are on my website http://stevengibbs.me.uk/BurialRegistersPage.htm (http://stevengibbs.me.uk/BurialRegistersPage.htm)
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Thank you Steven, that's a very useful collection of transcriptions.
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From the transcript of Edworth St.George's Monumental Inscriptions as done by Beds FHS 1997
I found that Beds Archives have a copy as well... the number in brackets is the memorial number and refers to a number on the churchyard map where the grave is located.
I've excluded any 'in memory of' & 'departed this life' scripts.
Hopefully they should tally with the photographs taken earlier in this topic.
(2) George Kidman, late of Millow, eldest son of the late George Kidman otp, died 29 August 1882, age 57
(3) George Kidman, son of James & Sarah Kidman, died 1 Sept 1861**, age 66
(4) Thomas Kidman, son of George & Edith Kidman, died 18 Aug 1856, age 24
(5) Isabel Edith Kidman, daughter of George & Edith Kidman, died 9 Jan 1858, age 23
(6) James Kidman, son of George & Edith Kidman, died 27 Mar 1864, age 35
(7) George Waters, son of Thomas & Ann Waters, late of Newton Bury, died 16 Dec 1867, age 29
{8) William Kidman, son of Thomas & Mary Kidman of Sharpenhoe Bury, died 25 Jan 1858 age 35
(9) Mary Ann Kidman, wife of William Kidman, died 9 Mar 1871, age 42
(10) Emma Kidman, wife of Edward Kidman of Edworth, died 11 Apr 1874, age 49
(11) Edward Kidman of Shefford, died 15 Mar 1885, age 55
(12) Elizabeth Kidman, wife of James Kidman, died 22 Jan 1854, age 62
(13) James Kidman, died 11 Oct 1836, age 44
(15) Sarah Kidman, wife of James Kidman, died 28 Feb 1814, aged 55
(16) James Kidman, died 2 Aug 1822, age 59
(17) Elizabeth Coleman, daughter of James & Sarah Kidman, died 23 Dec 1826, age 26
(18) Ann Kidman, daughter of Thomas & Mary Kidman, died 21 Dec 1832, age 16
(19) Elizabeth Kidman, wife of George Kidman, died 18 May 1861**, age 39
(50) George Edward Kidman, died 28 Jun 1920, age 69....
.... also Clara Kidman, wife of George Kidman, died 21 Jan 1951, age 94....
.... & Mabel Castleman, daughter, died 1 Apr 1940, age 59
(51) James Julian Kidman, died 6 Apr 1920, age 72....
.... and wife Louisa Kidman, died 5 Aug 1930, age 83
("") George Harold Thompson, died 28 Jun 1970, age 76....
.... and wife decima Omega Thompson, died 21 Aug 1979, age 87
** both of these are misread as 1861 but should be 1864 to match up with burial entries
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From Edworth Parish records - Burials
4 Mar 1814 Sarah Kidman age 55
6 Mar 1821 James Kidman age nearly 5 months
* baptised 15/10/1820 Edworth, son of James & Elizabeth Kidman, farmer
7 Aug 1822 James Kidman age 59 abode Hitchin
29 Dec 1832 Ann/e Kidman age 17
* baptised 16/7/1815 Streatley, daughter of Thomas & Mary Kidman, farmer of Sharpehoe
15 Feb 1834 Mary Kidman age 7 months
* baptised 29/12/1833 Edworth, daughter of Thomas & Elenor Kidman, labourer
19 Oct 1836 James Kidman 45
26 Jan 1839 William Kidman age 6 weeks
* baptised Edworth 15/12/1838 son of George & Edith Kidman
27 Jan 1854 Elizabeth Kidman age 61 abode Dunton
22 Aug 1856 Thomas Kidman age 24
4 Sept 1857 Thomas Henry Kidman age 7 mnths abode Millo (Dunton)
14 Jan 1858 Isabel Edith Kidman age 23
10 Dec 1860 John Kidman age 65 abode Girtford nr Sandy
1 Apr 1864 James Kidman age 35
23 May 1864 Elizabeth Kidman Kidman age 37 abode Dunton
7 Sept 1864 George Kidman age 66
30 Jan 1868 William Kidman age 38 abode Caldecote, Northill
16 Apr 1874 Emma Kidman age 48
20 Nov 1874 Sarah Kidman age 79 abode Everton
6 May 1877 Edith Kidman age 77
2 Sept 1882 George Kidman age 57 abode Millow, Dunton
21 Mar 1883 Edward Kidman age 55 abode Shefford
9 Apr 1920 James Julian Kidman age 83 abode Brownings Farm, Castle Camp, Cambs
8 Aug 1930 Louisa Kidman age 83 abode Collingham
25 Jan 1951 Clara Kidman age 94 abode 37 Hillcroft, Ealing W5
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From Edworth Parish records - Burials
...
6 May 1877 Edith Kidman age 77
...
John, would you mind checking your notes for this record? I think this is likely the wife of George Kidman (snr), for which newspaper items give her death date as 1st May 1878. The (likely) death registration is 1878 Q2 Biggleswade.
Also, it's curious that Edith isn't amongst the Beds FHS MIs, nor did I see her grave. Maybe her gravestone is one of the illegible ones; it seems unlikely that her grave wasn't marked.
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From Edworth Parish records - Burials
6 May 1877 Edith Kidman age 77
John, would you mind checking your notes for this record? I think this is likely the wife of George Kidman (snr), for which newspaper items give her death date as 1st May 1878. The (likely) death registration is 1878 Q2 Biggleswade.
Yes most likely is 1878 as you say her death date in the paper & probate calendar says 1 May 1878.
The burial register has 9 entries per page & each line only shows the day & month, you have to get the year from top of page, or spot it when it changes.
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More from the archives....
Dunton marriage: 9 Dec 1822 George Kidman bachelor of Hitchin, Herts to Edith Waters spinster of this parish, by licence....witnesses Thomas Waters & Elizabeth Butterfield
Barton le Clay baptisms children of George & Edith Kidman, farmer of Barton
22 Mar 1824 George
17 Nov 1825 Emma
28 Oct 1827 Mary Ann
17 Apr 1829 (Good Friday) James
13 Jan 1831 Edith ** buried at 3 days old on 17 Jan 1831
20 Apr 1832 Thomas
5 Feb 1834 Isabel Edith
** Registered 12 Oct 1838 ... as not brought into church after being baptised at Hill Farm
Edworth baptisms children of George & Edith Kidman, farmer of Edworth
6 Aug 1837 Berthia
15 Dec 1838 William ** buried aged 6 weeks on 26 Jan 1839
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Beds Archives have the cemetery records.... suggest you contact them for a look up
Have had a reply from the Bedfordshire Archives and they can confirm that Bethia Doane (listed as Bithia) was buried at the Bedford Cemetery on the 10th April 1874.
Since this, I have received information from FOBC with photographs of her headstone in the Bedford Cemetery. She was living at St Cuthberts Street, St Cuthberts, Bedford.
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Beds Archives have the cemetery records.... suggest you contact them for a look up
Have had a reply from the Bedfordshire Archives and they can confirm that Bethia Doane (listed as Bithia) was buried at the Bedford Cemetery on the 10th April 1874.
Since this, I have received information from FOBC with photographs of her headstone in the Bedford Cemetery. She was living at St Cuthberts Street, St Cuthberts, Bedford.
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Beds Archives have the cemetery records.... suggest you contact them for a look up
Have had a reply from the Bedfordshire Archives and they can confirm that Bethia Doane (listed as Bithia) was buried at the Bedford Cemetery on the 10th April 1874.
Since this, I have received information from FOBC with photographs of her headstone in the Bedford Cemetery. She was living at St Cuthberts Street, St Cuthberts, Bedford.
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You might have already seen this but a newspaper item refers to James being buried in the family grave, so it's a possibility.
Biggleswade Chronicle
09 Apr 1920
Dunton
Death of Mr J. J. Kidman
We regret to record the death of Mr. James Julian Kidman, formerly of Newton Grove Farm, Dunton, which took place at Castle Camps, Suffolk, on Tuesday, at the age of 72 years, and after an illness of about a year's duration. Deceased was born at Millow, Dunton, and resided in the parish for about 70 years, holding the office of Churchwarden, Chairman of the Parish Council, member of the Rural District Council, and Board of Guardians. Of his family, Mr. Hugh Kidman, Rose Villa, Sutton, Mr. P. Kidman, Sunderland, and Mrs. Carter, Eyeworth, remain in this district, and for them and other members of the family, much sympathy is felt. The remains are being brought to Edworth, Beds. To-day (Friday) for interment in the family grave in the Churchyard.
Biggleswade Chronicle
08 Aug 1930
Biggleswade
Death of Mrs Kidman
Her many friends in Biggleswade and district will learn with regret of the death of Mrs. Louise Kidman, who passed away at Collingham, Newark, on Tuesday. The deceased, who had attained the great age of 83 years, was the widow of the late Mr. J. J. Kidman, of Newton, Dunton. Her husband pre-deceased her by ten years. Deep sympathy is expressed with the family of four sons and four daughters in their bereavement. The members of the family are: Mr H. Kidman, of Clapham, Bedford; Mr P. C. Kidman, of Biggleswade; Mr J. Kidman, of Heybridge, Essex; Mr R. Kidman, of Bedford Park, London; Mrs Carter, of Offley, Hitchin; Mrs Thompson, of Sunderland Farm, Biggleswade; Mrs Tice, of Feltham, Middlesex; and Mrs Day, of Collingham, Newark. The funeral will take place at Edworth Church at 2.30 p.m. to-day (Friday).
Looking back on this kindly posted by cuffie81 which gives me James Julian & Louisa Kidman's four sons & four alive daughters in 1930.
James and Louisa had ten children and hoping to find their marriages and deaths. Some of them used their middle name. Still looking for information on four of them.
Coleman Hugh KIDMAN b. August 9th. 1873 He was married to Annie Mira Close 1894
Percy Charles KIDMAN b.June 30th. 1875 ( I have all Percy's information -my Grandfather)
Ellen Elizabeth KIDMAN b.May 14th. 1877 ( no other information )
Mary Louise KIDMAN b. March 5th. 1879 ( no other information)
Mabel KIDMAN b. May 20TH. 1880 ( no other information)
Michaelmas George KIDMAN b. October 11th. 1881 Died in India 1918.
Edith Isabella KIDMAN b. October 31st. 1883 (no other information)
Joseph KIDMAN b.December 31st. 1886 Wounded while in France.
Thomas Randolf KIDMAN b. January 11th.1889 (no other information)
Decima Omega KIDMAN b. July 31st. 1892. She married J. Harold Thompson Biggleswade. Dec 1916 - she died 21st Aug 1979. Her husband died 28th. June 1970.
Any information on the above would be very much appreciated.
cupcake
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I've sent some info to cupcake via PM earlier today but it probably makes more sense to do it on the forum, in case it's of use to others in future.
Looking through various records I think we have the following for the children of James and Lousia.
Children:
Coleman Hugh (1873 - 1951; age 78); m. 1894 Annie Mira Mary Close (1872 - 1944; age 72)
Percy Charles (1875 - 1944; age 69); m. 1904 Gertrude Partridge (1868 - 1953; age 85)
Ellen Elizabeth (1877 - 1937; age 59); m. 1897 Walter Carter (1869 - 1962; age 93)
Mary Louise (1879 - 1960; age 81); m. 1911 Harry Wentworth Tice (1867 - 1950; age 82)
Mabel Topsy (1880 - 1962; age 81); m. 1907 Leopold Henry Day (1879 - 1938; age 59)
Michaelmas George (1881 - 1918; age 37)
Edith Isabella (1883 - 1888; age 4)
Joseph (1886 - 1970; age 83); m. 1925 Elsie Mary Harding (1900 - 1981; age 80)
Thomas Randolph (1889 - 1964; age 74); m. 1912 Dorothy Jane Goddard (1890 - 1973; age 82)
Decima Omega (1892 - 1979; age 87); m. 1916 George Harold Thompson (1893 - 1970; age 76)
GRO BMD references:
1873 Q3 Birth - Coleman Hugh Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 356
1894 Q3 Marriage - Coleman Hugh Kidman & Annie Mira M Close; Pancras; 01b; 20
1944 Q4 Death - Annie Mira Mary Kidman; age 72 (born c1872); Hastings; 02b; 4
1951 Q1 Death - Coleman Hugh Kidman; age 79 (born c1872); Northampton; 03b; 781
1877 Q2 Birth - Ellen Elizabeth Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 385
1897 Q2 Marriage - Walter Carter & Ellen Elizabeth Kidman; Biggleswade; 03b; 797
1937 Q1 Death - Ellen Elizabeth Carter; age 59 (born c1878); Hitchin; 03a; 1414
1962 Q4 Death - Walter Carter; age 93 (born c1869); Biggleswade; 04a; 89
1867 Q4 Birth - Harry Wentworth Tice (mmn: Wentworth); Chertsey; 02a; 36; copy A
1879 Q2 Birth - Mary Louise Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 367
1911 Q2 Marriage - Harry W Tice & Mary L Kidman; Biggleswade; 03b; 803
1950 Q3 Death - Harry Wentworth Tice; age 82 (born c1868); Middlesex South; 05f; 54
1960 Q1 Death - Mary L Tice; age 81 (born c1879); Middlesex South; 05f; 98
1879 Q4 Birth - Leopold Henry Day (mmn: Bonfield); Royston; 03a; 360
1880 Q3 Birth - Mabel Topsy Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 352
1907 Q2 Marriage - Leopold Henry Day & Mabel Kidman; Huntingdon; 03b; 607
1939 Q1 Death - Leopold Henry Day; age 59 (born c1880); Lincoln; 07a; 611
1962 Q1 Death - Mabel Day; age 81 (born c1881); Lincoln; 03b; 394
1881 Q4 Birth - Michaelmas George Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 344
1883 Q4 Birth - Edith Isabella Kidman (mmn: Crauch); Biggleswade; 03b; 351
1888 Q1 Death - Edith Isabella Kidman; age 4 (born c1884); Biggleswade; 03b; 247
1887 Q1 Birth - Joseph Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 337
1925 Q3 Marriage - Joseph Kidman & Elsie M Harding; Linton; 03b; 1279
1970 Q3 Death - Joseph Kidman; born 31 Dec 1886; Maldon; 04a; 1758
1981 Q1 Death - Elsie Mary Kidman; born 09 Aug 1900; Chelmsford; 009; 2132
1889 Q1 Birth - Thomas Randolph Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 348
1890 Q2 Birth - Dorothy Jane Goddard (mmn: William); Chippenham; 05a; 73
1912 Q3 Marriage - Thomas R Kidman & Dorothy J Goddard; Chippenham; 05a; 156
1964 Q1 Death - Thomas R Kidman; age 74 (born c1890); Hendon; 05e; 496
1973 Q1 Death - Dorothy Jane Kidman; born 17 May 1890; Chichester; 05h; 2210
1892 Q3 Birth - Decima Omega Kidman (mmn: Crouch); Biggleswade; 03b; 357
1916 Q4 Marriage - George H Thompson & Decima O Kidman; Biggleswade; 03b; 736
1970 Q2 Death - George Harold Thompson; born 16 Aug 1893; Bedford; 04a; 140
1979 Q3 Death - Decima Omega Thompson; born 03 Jul 1892; Bedford; 009; 0168
Probate/administrations:
Coleman Hugh Kidman
of 79 Eastern-avenue Northampton
died 19 March 1951
Probate London 25 May
to Harold Alexander Luxford factory manager
Effects £780 13s
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=kidman&yearOfDeath=1951&page=2#calendar
Walter Carter
of 8 The Avenue The Baulk Biggleswade Bedfordshire
died 16 Nov 1962
Probate London 14 Jan
to Ernest Carter Sidney Carter and Percy Carter farmers
Effects £2115 19s
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=carter&yearOfDeath=1963&page=18#calendar
Leopold Henry Day
otherwise Leopold (the elder)
of the Bakery North Collingham Nottinghamshire
died 31 Dec 1938 at Bromhead Nursing Home Lincoln
Adminstration (with will) 29 April
to Mable Day widow and Leopold Henry Day baker
Effects £1912 17s 6d
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=day&yearOfDeath=1939&page=4#calendar
Mabel Day
of The Bakery North Collingham Nottinghamshire
widow died 24 Feb 1962 at 122 Boultham Park Road Lincoln
Administration (with will) Nottingham 3 May
to Leopold Henry Day baker
Effects £1199 6s
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=day&yearOfDeath=1962&page=10#calendar
Elsie Mary Kidman
of Longfield Fambridge Clo Maldon Essex
died 17 Feb 1981
Probate London 30 Mar
£2239
810005872T
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1981#calendar
Thomas Randolph Kidman
of 11 Crown Road Friern Barnet Middlesex
died 6 Jan 1964
Probate London 26 Mar
to Michael Randolph Kidman projector repair mechanic
£3501
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Kidman&yearOfDeath=1964&page=3#calendar
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Newspaper items:
Biggleswade Chronicle
12 Feb 1937
Dunton
The death of Mrs Ellen Elizabeth Carter, wife of Mr W Carter, occurred at their residence, "Angel Farm", Offley, Hitchin, on Tuesday morning after a serious illness. Mrs Carter had been ailing for a number of years and for the last two years had been practically bedridden but has had the careful attention of her three daughters. Mrs Carter, who had attained the age of 59 years, was the daughter of the late Mr J J Kidman, of Newton Grove, Dunton, where she was born, and spent the first part of her life. After marriage she went to Old Walden and later moved to Bury Farm, Eyeworth, on the estate of Lord Peel, remaining there for 28 years. They brought up a large family - six sons and four daughters. Mr Sidney Carter (son) later took over the farm and the parents moved to more accessible surroundings. Her health gradually failed and during their eleven years at Offley she has been compelled to give up active work. A thorough business woman, she had a large circle of friends. The interment takes place at Dunton on Saturday at 2 o'clock.
Biggleswade Chronicle
19 Feb 1937
The Late Mrs Walter Carter
The funeral of the late Mrs Walter Carter, of Angel Farm, Offley, Herts., who died on February 9th, at Offley, took place on Saturday at the Dunton Parish Church, where her parents had been regular attendants. The church was almost filled with many relatives and sympathising friends.
The Rev A T S Henry (Offley) and the Rev A Walker (Vicar of Dunton) officiated, the former conducting the committal service in the Cemetery near to the graves of Mr W Carter's parents.
Miss P Smith, of Biggleswade, was at the organ and played "O Rest in the Lord", "But the Lord is mindful" (Mendelssohn) and a special selection by Schumann.
The hymns were sung were Mrs Carter's favourites. "On the Resurrection morning" and "Thy way, not mine, O Lord".
The coffin of oak bore the inscription "Ellen Elizabeth Carter, died February 9th, 1937, aged 59 years".
The chief mourners were: Mr W. Carter (widower), the Misses Ciss, Elsie and Doris Carter, and Mrs F Davis (daughters), Messrs Ernest, Sidney, John, Percy, Frank and Harry Carter (sons), Mrs E Carter, Mrs S Carter, Mrs J Carter, Mrs P Carter, Mrs F Carter (daughters-in-law). Mrs L Day, Mrs H Thompson, Mr H Thompson (sisters and brother-in-law), Mr and Mrs P C Kidman (brother and sister-in-law). Miss B Kidman (niece), Mr and Mrs D Chessum, Mr and Mrs Edwin Carter, Mr and Mrs E F Kitchener, Mr and Mrs F Carter, Mr and Mrs A Carter, Mr and Mrs J Clarke (brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law), Mrs C Carter (sister-in-law), Mr and Mrs A E Chesum, Mr G E Carter, Mr and Mrs J Grundy (nephews and nieces), Mrs E Jarman, of Keighley, Miss L Neal and Nellie, Mr and Mrs Tetley, of Welwyn (cousins), Nurse Nash, Mr J W Sutton, Mr and Mrs H Burr, Mr Stuart Sutton, Messrs F D and R J Foster, of Offley, Mrs G Lee, Mr and Mrs F W P Hunt, Guilden Morden, Mr A Lee, of Kings Walden, Mr and Mrs H Rutt, of Langford, and Mr H Rutt junr, of Stotfold (friends).
[Article continues, naming other mourners and detailing the numerous flowers and inscriptions]
Oxfordshire Weekly News
21 Mar 1917
Rural District Tribunal
Held at Witney on Thursday afternoon.
Reviewal[?] of Certificates
Thomas Randolph Kidman, baker, Coggs - Present exemption certificate to stand.
Bedfordshire Times and Independent
28 Apr 1911
Dunton
The marriage of Miss M L Kidman, second daughter of Mr J Kidman, of Newton Grove Farm, was celebrated at the village church on April 19th. The choir were present. The Rev. J F D Hoernle officiated. Mr Hugh H Ballard, of Bigglesewade, played "The Bridal March" and other appropriate music on the organ. The bridegrrom was Mr H Wentworth Tice, only son of the late Mr H Tice, of Feltham, Middlesex. The bride was given away by her brother, Hugh Kidman, of Sunderland Farm, Biggleswade, and was attired in a white silk gown and bridal veil. Miss Decima Kidman was the bridesmaid, and wore a pale mauve dress and a large picture hat trimmed with mauve and primroses. Mr J Kidman was the best man. A reception was held in the national Schools, and photographs were taken in Newton grove by Mr Fred Phillips. The happy pair were the recipients of many handsome gifts, and left for Bognor for a honeymoon.
EDITS:
[1] Added item about Thomas Randolph Kidman's exemption, 1917
[2] Added item about marriage of M L Kidman to H Wentworth Tice, 1911
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Marriages:
married: 16 Aug 1894; St Pancras; banns
groom: Coleman Hugh Kidman; 20; bach; clerk; 40 Patshull? Road
bride: Annie Maria Mary Close; 22; spin; -; 192 Camden? Road
grooms father: James Julian Kidman, farmer
brides father: Edward Mason Close, builder
witnesses: Louisa Kidman?, Edward Mason Close senr.
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Censuses:
Most of children are with their parents until marriage, so I'll just include the census records where they're not.
1901 Hampstead, London
Coleman and wife Annie.
Note that various transcription have the surname as Redman but it looks like Kidman to me.
Ref RG13; Piece 122; Folio 39; Page 6;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X98Q-WHQ
1911 Biggleswade, Bedfordshire
Coleman and Annie and son, but using middle names.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7V1-X8T
1901 Eyeworth, Bedfordshire
Ellen Elizabeth and husband Walter Carter.
Ref RG13; Piece 1496; Folio 45; Page 1;
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS38-QVQ
1911 Eyeworth, Bedfordshire
Ellen Elizabeth and husband Walter Carter.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7V1-NRH
1911 Swinderby Lincoln, Nottinghamshire
Mabel and husband Leopold Day
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-R79
1911 Corsham, Wiltshire
Thomas Randolph Kidman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X722-1YJ
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Newspaper items (part 2):
Bedfordshire Times and Independent
16 Apr 1920
Dunton
The funeral of the late Mr James Julian Kidman, formerly Chairman of the Parish Council, Rural District Councillor and Guardian for the parish, took place on Friday, at Edworth Church, the interment taking place in the family grave. Deceased formerly resided at newton grove Farm, but on the sale of the latter he went to Castle Camps, Suffolk. The remains were brought from Castle Camps to Biggleswade by motor hearse. The service was read by the Rev R W Spurway. The coffin was inscribed, James Julian Kidman, died April 6th 1920, aged 73 years. The mourners were Mr Hugh Kidman (Sutton), Mr Percy Kidman (Sunderland Farm), and Mr Joseph Kidman (Castle Camps), sons; Mr Walter Carter (Eyeworth), and Mr Ernest Carter (Eyeworth). Among those attending were Mr Wm Kendall (Millow Hall), Mr and Mrs Albert E Course (Newton Grove), Mr S Lee (Dunton), Mr D Chessum (Dunton), and Mr B Brown.
[I don't think this item has been posted on any of the threads yet. But it's notable as it mentions Walter Carter and (his son?) Ernest Carter.]
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cuffie81
You must have spent hours doing all this for me and can't thank you enough - I am so grateful :D.
I now know so much more about my G Grandfather's family.
kind regards
cupcake
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Newspaper items (part 2):
Bedfordshire Times and Independent
16 Apr 1920
Dunton
The funeral of the late Mr James Julian Kidman, formerly Chairman of the Parish Council, Rural District Councillor and Guardian for the parish, took place on Friday, at Edworth Church, the interment taking place in the family grave. Deceased formerly resided at newton grove Farm, but on the sale of the latter he went to Castle Camps, Suffolk. The remains were brought from Castle Camps to Biggleswade by motor hearse. The service was read by the Rev R W Spurway. The coffin was inscribed, James Julian Kidman, died April 6th 1920, aged 73 years. The mourners were Mr Hugh Kidman (Sutton), Mr Percy Kidman (Sunderland Farm), and Mr Joseph Kidman (Castle Camps), sons; Mr Walter Carter (Eyeworth), and Mr Ernest Carter (Eyeworth). Among those attending were Mr Wm Kendall (Millow Hall), Mr and Mrs Albert E Course (Newton Grove), Mr S Lee (Dunton), Mr D Chessum (Dunton), and Mr B Brown.
[I don't think this item has been posted on any of the threads yet. But it's notable as it mentions Walter Carter and (his son?) Ernest Carter.]
I am not aware of this being posted in any other threads. Not sure why it's notable - Walter Carter was married to Ellen Elizabeth KIDMAN.
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Bedfordshire Times and Independent
28 Apr 1911
Dunton
The marriage of Miss M L Kidman, second daughter of Mr J Kidman, of Newton Grove Farm, was celebrated at the village church on April 19th. The choir were present. The Rev. J F D Hoernle officiated. Mr Hugh H Ballard, of Bigglesewade, played "The Bridal March" and other appropriate music on the organ. The bridegrrom was Mr H Wentworth Tice, only son of the late Mr H Tice, of Feltham, Middlesex. The bride was given away by her brother, Hugh Kidman, of Sunderland Farm, Biggleswade, and was attired in a white silk gown and bridal veil. Miss Decima Kidman was the bridesmaid, and wore a pale mauve dress and a large picture hat trimmed with mauve and primroses. Mr J Kidman was the best man.
I see Mary Louise was given away by her brother Hugh Kidman so, I wonder if her father James Julian was unwell.
Would be great to have photographs of the family - I only have my Grandparents photo.
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In 1939 they are at 1 Boundarys Road, Feltham, Middx
Harry W Tice, 1 Nov 1867 Painter & Decorator (retired)
Mary L Tice, 5 Mar 1879
Naomi W Tice, 5 Mar 1916 (name overwritten as Kolkowski)
Henry W Tice, 28 Nov 1917
James K Tice, 1 Mar 1921
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I am not aware of this being posted in any other threads. Not sure why it's notable - Walter Carter was married to Ellen Elizabeth KIDMAN.
Notable is probably overstating it but I take the opinion that any records that add weight to the argument that X was related to Y are of use. In this case the prominence in which Walter Carter and Ernest Carter are named amongst the mourners suggests a relationship to James, even though it's not stated, and I think it could be argued that the named Walter Carter is likely James' son-in-law.
I see Mary Louise was given away by her brother Hugh Kidman so, I wonder if her father James Julian was unwell.
Would be great to have photographs of the family - I only have my Grandparents photo.
It is curious, Mary been given away by her brother. I have not idea how common it was for a brother to give away a sister when the father was still alive, and living locally.
Those photographs would be great for your collection. You never know, they might still exist in the hands of some the living descendants. You might want to try following the lines forward and contacting them.
...interment taking place in the family grave...
Another curiosity but it might be nothing. We know that Louisa died in 1930 and is buried in the same grave plot, along with daughter Decima and her husband George (aka Harold) (as well as your mother's ashes) making James the first (known) to be buried in the plot. So the reference to 'family grave' is curious as it suggests others may have been buried there before James. I could be reading too much into it though.
PS: Dipping into your Kidman family is always interesting as there's a wealth of info to find, so I'm glad to help. I'd suggest looking up the birth registrations of the children of these couples and the 1939 register records as they both add weight (and info).
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1939 Register at ...
I've avoided posting the 1939 register records as I expect mods will delete them due to copyright but they're easily found when cupcake gets the chance.
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Would be great to have photographs of the family - I only have my Grandparents photo.
It looks like Bedfordshire Archives may have some photos, possibly from the marriage of Ellen to Walter Carter.
Reference: Z956/76
Title: A wedding portrait taken at Newton Bury Farm. The Carter family who are in this photo lived at the farm for several years [Dun/A/31, 32] [Walter Carter married Ellen Elizabeth Kidman. See Dunton Parish Register]
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110008062
EDITS:
Modified comment to make it clear which marriage the photos may be of.
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PS: Dipping into your Kidman family is always interesting as there's a wealth of info to find, so I'm glad to help. I'd suggest looking up the birth registrations of the children of these couples and the 1939 register records as they both add weight (and info).
You can dip into my Kidman family anytime ;) as I'll find it all very interesting.
Thank you
cupcake
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Would be great to have photographs of the family - I only have my Grandparents photo.
It looks like Bedfordshire Archives may have some photos, possibly from the marriage of Ellen to Walter Carter.
Reference: Z956/76
Title: A wedding portrait taken at Newton Bury Farm. The Carter family who are in this photo lived at the farm for several years [Dun/A/31, 32] [Walter Carter married Ellen Elizabeth Kidman. See Dunton Parish Register]
http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110008062
EDITS:
Modified comment to make it clear which marriage the photos may be of.
I am going to contact the Bedford archives and see what they can do.
cupcake
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It is curious, Mary been given away by her brother. I have not idea how common it was for a brother to give away a sister when the father was still alive, and living locally.
Those photographs would be great for your collection. You never know, they might still exist in the hands of some the living descendants. You might want to try following the lines forward and contacting them.
I was curious as to why her brother gave her away, but not important.
Yes, the photograph would be great for my collection as I do not not have any of my G Grandparents James Julian & Louisa Kidman (Crouch) and family.
Finding living descendants would be a bonus.
cupcake
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Quote from: cuffie81 on Yesterday at 00:25
...interment taking place in the family grave...
Another curiosity but it might be nothing. We know that Louisa died in 1930 and is buried in the same grave plot, along with daughter Decima and her husband George (aka Harold) (as well as your mother's ashes) making James the first (known) to be buried in the plot. So the reference to 'family grave' is curious as it suggests others may have been buried there before James. I could be reading too much into it though.
Hopefully I help you here. If my memory serves me correctly, there are two plots back to back and one headstone. One has James Julian Kidman & Louisa KIDMAN (Crouch) on the back, reverse of headstone George Harold Thompson and Decima Omega Thompson.
cupcake
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cuffie81
it looks like Bedfordshire Archives may have some photos, possibly from the marriage of Ellen to Walter Carter.
Reference: Z956/76
Title: A wedding portrait taken at Newton Bury Farm. The Carter family who are in this photo lived at the farm for several years [Dun/A/31, 32] [Walter Carter married Ellen Elizabeth Kidman. See Dunton Parish Register]
Have heard from the Bedford Archives and are dealing with it.They are short staffed and should here from them soon.
Would they have been married in a church and, photograph taken at the farm.
You mention, see Dunton Parish Register - where would I look for this.
cupcake
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Bedfordshire Times and Independent
28 Apr 1911
Dunton
The marriage of Miss M L Kidman, second daughter of Mr J Kidman, of Newton Grove Farm, was celebrated at the village church on April 19th. The choir were present. The Rev. J F D Hoernle officiated. Mr Hugh H Ballard, of Bigglesewade, played "The Bridal March" and other appropriate music on the organ. The bridegrrom was Mr H Wentworth Tice, only son of the late Mr H Tice, of Feltham, Middlesex. The bride was given away by her brother, Hugh Kidman, of Sunderland Farm, Biggleswade, and was attired in a white silk gown and bridal veil. Miss Decima Kidman was the bridesmaid, and wore a pale mauve dress and a large picture hat trimmed with mauve and primroses. Mr J Kidman was the best man.
I see Mary Louise was given away by her brother Hugh Kidman so, I wonder if her father James Julian was unwell.
Would be great to have photographs of the family - I only have my Grandparents photo.
May not have the photograph but, the detailed description of the silk bridal gown with the colour of the bridesmaids dress and hat - stunning.
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In 1939 they are at 1 Boundarys Road, Feltham, Middx
Harry W Tice, 1 Nov 1867 Painter & Decorator (retired)
Mary L Tice, 5 Mar 1879
Naomi W Tice, 5 Mar 1916 (name overwritten as Kolkowski)
Henry W Tice, 28 Nov 1917
James K Tice, 1 Mar 1921
Thank you for this information.
As cuffie81 said, I should try following the lines forward and contacting them, and may get some photographs of my ancestors.
cupcake
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Quote from: cuffie81 on Yesterday at 00:25
...interment taking place in the family grave...
Another curiosity but it might be nothing. We know that Louisa died in 1930 and is buried in the same grave plot, along with daughter Decima and her husband George (aka Harold) (as well as your mother's ashes) making James the first (known) to be buried in the plot. So the reference to 'family grave' is curious as it suggests others may have been buried there before James. I could be reading too much into it though.
Hopefully I help you here. If my memory serves me correctly, there are two plots back to back and one headstone. One has James Julian Kidman & Louisa KIDMAN (Crouch) on the back, reverse of headstone George Harold Thompson and Decima Omega Thompson.
cupcake
But of those 4 James was the first to die, so it couldn't be a reference to Louisa or George/Harold. I doubt the family had to purchase/reserve a plot either, it's such a small churchyard.
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cuffie81
it looks like Bedfordshire Archives may have some photos, possibly from the marriage of Ellen to Walter Carter.
Reference: Z956/76
Title: A wedding portrait taken at Newton Bury Farm. The Carter family who are in this photo lived at the farm for several years [Dun/A/31, 32] [Walter Carter married Ellen Elizabeth Kidman. See Dunton Parish Register]
Have heard from the Bedford Archives and are dealing with it.They are short staffed and should here from them soon.
Would they have been married in a church and, photograph taken at the farm.
You mention, see Dunton Parish Register - where would I look for this.
cupcake
The reference to the Dunton parish register is from the Beds. Archive record, not myself. As for the register Beds Archives probably hold it. The Beds FHS has transcripts from the registers but not up to this date, so you'll probably need to contact Beds Archive, purchase the marriage cert. or post a request on RC to see if someone can do a lookup at Beds Archive.
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In 1939 they are at 1 Boundarys Road, Feltham, Middx
Harry W Tice, 1 Nov 1867 Painter & Decorator (retired)
Mary L Tice, 5 Mar 1879
Naomi W Tice, 5 Mar 1916 (name overwritten as Kolkowski)
Henry W Tice, 28 Nov 1917
James K Tice, 1 Mar 1921
Thank you for this information.
As cuffie81 said, I should try following the lines forward and contacting them, and may get some photographs of my ancestors.
cupcake
Found information on Family Search:
Naomi W Tice married Kolkowski 1948 Middlesex South. She died in 2000 North Surrey and would have been 84 yrs.
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Quote from: cuffie81 on Yesterday at 00:25
...interment taking place in the family grave...
Another curiosity but it might be nothing. We know that Louisa died in 1930 and is buried in the same grave plot, along with daughter Decima and her husband George (aka Harold) (as well as your mother's ashes) making James the first (known) to be buried in the plot. So the reference to 'family grave' is curious as it suggests others may have been buried there before James. I could be reading too much into it though.
Hopefully I help you here. If my memory serves me correctly, there are two plots back to back and one headstone. One has James Julian Kidman & Louisa KIDMAN (Crouch) on the back, reverse of headstone George Harold Thompson and Decima Omega Thompson.
cupcake
But of those 4 James was the first to die, so it couldn't be a reference to Louisa or George/Harold. I doubt the family had to purchase/reserve a plot either, it's such a small churchyard.
Rather confusing.
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cuffie81
it looks like Bedfordshire Archives may have some photos, possibly from the marriage of Ellen to Walter Carter.
Reference: Z956/76
Title: A wedding portrait taken at Newton Bury Farm. The Carter family who are in this photo lived at the farm for several years [Dun/A/31, 32] [Walter Carter married Ellen Elizabeth Kidman. See Dunton Parish Register]
Have heard from the Bedford Archives and are dealing with it.They are short staffed and should here from them soon.
Would they have been married in a church and, photograph taken at the farm.
You mention, see Dunton Parish Register - where would I look for this.
cupcake
The reference to the Dunton parish register is from the Beds. Archive record, not myself. As for the register Beds Archives probably hold it. The Beds FHS has transcripts from the registers but not up to this date, so you'll probably need to contact Beds Archive, purchase the marriage cert. or post a request on RC to see if someone can do a lookup at Beds Archive.
Thank you for that. I do feel a nuisance having to ask people for help. I do a lot of searching but occasionally, require help.
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In 1939 they are at 1 Boundarys Road, Feltham, Middx
Harry W Tice, 1 Nov 1867 Painter & Decorator (retired)
Mary L Tice, 5 Mar 1879
Naomi W Tice, 5 Mar 1916 (name overwritten as Kolkowski)
Henry W Tice, 28 Nov 1917
James K Tice, 1 Mar 1921
Thank you for this information.
As cuffie81 said, I should try following the lines forward and contacting them, and may get some photographs of my ancestors.
cupcake
Found information on Family Search:
Naomi W Tice married Kolkowski 1948 Middlesex South. She died in 2000 North Surrey and would have been 84 yrs.
Have been doing more research on "Family Search" for Naomi. Ancestry came up with nothing.
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Children of Ellen Elizabeth CARTER (Kidman) & Walter CARTER married in 1897
Ernest John CARTER 1898 - 1985
Sidney CARTER 1900 - 1984
Cissy Ellen CARTER 1901 - 1989
Walter John CARTER 1902 -
Percy Charles CARTER 1904 - 1981
Elsie CARTER 1906 - 1970
Kate CARTER 1907 -
Frank CARTER 1909 -
Doris CARTER 1912 -
Harry CARTER b. Sept. 1913 Hitchen, Hertfordshire married Monica Nancy Harper June 1943. Harry died 1990. They had one daughter, Wendy.
cupcake
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cupcake,
You just need to be a bit careful naming the grandchildren of Ellen and Walter, and any other couples, as some are likely to still be alive. Naming living people is against RootsChat's policy.
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cupcake,
You just need to be a bit careful naming the grandchildren of Ellen and Walter, and any other couples, as some are likely to still be alive. Naming living people is against RootsChat's policy.
Thank you for reminding me.
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Naomi W Tice married Kolkowski 1948 Middlesex South. She died in 2000 North Surrey and would have been 84 yrs.
FindaWill has entry for Naomi Wentworth Kolkowski, died 29 Sept 2000, Probate dated 26/1/2001 number 5763600, grant & will available , you can download it for £10
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Thank you for that.
cupcake